Confirmed with Link: Craig Berube named the 32nd Coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs

[TS Quint]

1. Internally, think Domi can be a 2C. UFAs, Lindholm is interesting.
Looking around we don’t need a top end 2C just someone who got a great 2 way game and can do the job. Would rather have Coyle than JT as 2C.
2. Unless this new 2C play on PP1, he is not going to get 60pts. Also ROR was signed for 4.25mil and his D game is still miles better than JT.
3. It is not just his foot speed but also his reaction time. And to your question, just look at TJ. From playing in the top 4 to being press box within ONE year.

Fair enough. It will be interesting to see what they can do to fill that 2C spot. Domi seems pretty weak for that spot. He was good getting dragged around by Matthews. But asking him to be a legit 2C seems ambitious. I feel like someone will hand a Lindholm a contract they will regret. I hope that won't be the Leafs.

 

[Buds17]

Rod wasn't going anywhere.

Merely a thought which made for some discussion.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Has Berube’s relationship with Mark Hunter been discussed? And the obvious implication that he may see Marner through a different lens?

I posed the question about Marner’s form and motivation in another thread, asking the question: Could Cowan bring out the best of Marner? A return of the player who didn’t avoid the net or the middle of the ice.

Because a motivated Marner is a player we wouldn’t trade away.

His recent, successive playoffs play demands a trade. I get that and agree.

But in the other thread where I ask a couple of questions to the pint above, I ask does anyone remember that former, better, pre-big money version of Marner?

If the right conditions return to maximize him, would it be better to keep him outright, or keep him long enough to raise his value?

I confess: I would have a tough time trading a return to form Marner. And I think as is customary with our fanbase, we’d note Kadri, Kessel and Hyman and ask ourselves, what is it that deforms our thinking in seemingly every situation.

I thought the arguments re Marner were obvious. Marner's "form" in the playoffs vs. the regular season are vastly different. Marner is a soft $4 million (or less) "defensive forward" in the playoffs. The juice ain't worth the squeeze.

 

[Evilhomer]

Yeah I see that too. I find that on Canadian teams specifically we have a bit of an NBA starting lineup vs bench mentality. This has been a problem in Toronto, Vancouver and Edmonton.

What Tocchet seems to have done is bring that grunt accountability to the top players while management has improved the supporting cast. I see that as Treliving’s mission.

So what does this mean? Pettersson has had a positively terrible playoffs so far, and Tocchet hasn't sat him or even really reduced his ice time all that much. He was baby soft in his "criticism" of him publicly. So where is the accountability? Coaches of good teams don't bench or press box their best players. Berube won't do it in Toronto, either, and he doesn't need to. Benching 27 year old superstars isn't going to accomplish anything.

 

[studebaker17]

So what does this mean? Pettersson has had a positively terrible playoffs so far, and Tocchet hasn't sat him or even really reduced his ice time all that much. He was baby soft in his "criticism" of him publicly. So where is the accountability? Coaches of good teams don't bench or press box their best players. Berube won't do it in Toronto, either, and he doesn't need to. Benching 27 year old superstars isn't going to accomplish anything.

You don't ever bench players for lack of offence . You may move them to an easier matchup but never benching them. Great way to ruin a players confidence.
You bench players for lack of commitment to defensive assignments .

 

[Gabriel426]

Fair enough. It will be interesting to see what they can do to fill that 2C spot. Domi seems pretty weak for that spot. He was good getting dragged around by Matthews. But asking him to be a legit 2C seems ambitious. I feel like someone will hand a Lindholm a contract they will regret. I hope that won't be the Leafs.

Lindholm is interesting and I don’t think it will be a bad contract unless it is into the 9mil territory.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Jay Rosehill Weighs In On The Craig Berube Hire

The Leafs Nation

May 18, 2024

Rosehill played for Berube in Philadelphia.

 

[Gabriel426]

Quite refreshing for those who played for Berube pretty much all came out and said he is the right coach, he will do well…..

 

[TMLeafer]

Roster needs changing too, but this is a good start hopefully.

 

[Gilmour1996]

Jay Rosehill gets my vote for one of the assistant coach jobs!

 

[notDatsyuk]

he's only owed 900k after his bonus so someone would take without attaching a sweetener , whether he'd waive to go that team is the issue

the strange part in the trade Mitch crusade is that he's head and shoulders better than Tavares but people what to ship him out regardless of the return while also doing back flips to keep JT and even extend him , lol

Again, it's not the $900K cash, but the $11M cap hit that teams can't afford for what he brings.

Marner is better than Tavares in the regular season, but Tavares is better in the playoffs.

If neither is traded, then after next season we should be able to sign JT (if we do) for maybe 3 or 4 for a couple of years, while Mitch will be looking for 12 or 13 for several years. If they both waive (particularly unlikely for JT), we'd have to pay someone to take JT at his current cap hit, but we should be able to get something positive for Mitch.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I'd much rather overpay a very good player than endlessly make excuses for a mediocre player and what do you mean by cheap ? 1 to 2m cheap or 5-7m cheap and we come up with a story how some mystery team was going to offer him 8-10m x 7yrs so we can say good ole Johnny did us a solid .

also who's going to carry Johnny if we trade Mitch , all i heard was constant whining how Willie wasn't good enough to be his winger so which wingers are next up to be run out of town like Mitch to deflect criticism away from JT ?

First, Mitch never carried JT, and still can't.

Second, most people weren't complaining that Willy wasn't good enough to be his winger, but either that JT wasn't good enough to centre Willy, or (more correctly) that they just didn't fit.

Finally, JT doesn't need either a Mitch or a Willy type - he needs slower, north-south grinders.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Mitch - 90 plus point player who is very good defensively and in his prime -trade the piece of garbage

JT - declining 60ish pt player who is mediocre defensively and relies on his elite linemates for his production - yeah baby re-sign him and whatever we pay him we'll spin it as a discount

how else would you like me to take these opinions ?

You're still missing the difference between current contract and potential future contract.

Yes, JT is badly overpaid for next year, which makes his trade value negative for now, but he will get a much lower contract (if any) after that, which will improve his trade value.

Mitch is a bit overpaid for next year, which makes his trade value reasonable for now, but he will be looking for a much higher contract after that, which will seriously reduce his trade value.

 

[hotpaws]

First, Mitch never carried JT, and still can't.

Second, most people weren't complaining that Willy wasn't good enough to be his winger, but either that JT wasn't good enough to centre Willy, or (more correctly) that they just didn't fit.

Finally, JT doesn't need either a Mitch or a Willy type - he needs slower, north-south grinders.

Mitch and Willie have been carrying JT since he's been on the Leafs and they tried him with grinders this year (McMann among others ) and he completely killed off their production , the third line did shit so they moved him back with Marner when he came back from his high ankle sprain .

also not only is Mitch much better in the regular season but he's also been much in the playoffs , JT has has exactly 1 good playoff series not playoffs his entire career and none with us , no idea how anyone can say he's played well in the playoffs

 

[hotpaws]

You're still missing the difference between current contract and potential future contract.

Yes, JT is badly overpaid for next year, which makes his trade value negative for now, but he will get a much lower contract (if any) after that, which will improve his trade value.

Mitch is a bit overpaid for next year, which makes his trade value reasonable for now, but he will be looking for a much higher contract after that, which will seriously reduce his trade value.

i'm not missing anything and no one knows what Mitch will be asking for in his next deal

I don't want JT back at any price including league min , 6 soon to be 7 yrs of listening to people make excuses for him while throwing the team under bus to deflect attention away from his poor play is more than enough for me

and just to add , i'm all for trading any player if it makes us better but i'm not moving Mitch for depth pieces just so the angry horde can get their pound of flesh , if there's a high quality offer then make the deal , if not work out a contract and keep him long term

 

[notDatsyuk]

And Tavares cap percentage would have gone down as well, making it less of a problem as the years moved forward and the cap surged past $100 million the way it was projected. Without foreknowledge of the coming epidemic, it was a good signing that sped up the rebuild significantly.

It didn't "speed up the rebuild" - it stalled it for seven year.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Mitch and Willie have been carrying JT since he's been on the Leafs and they tried him with grinders this year (McMann among others ) and he completely killed off their production , the third line did shit so they moved him back with Marner when he came back from his high ankle sprain .

also not only is Mitch much better in the regular season but he's also been much in the playoffs , JT has has exactly 1 good playoff series not playoffs his entire career and none with us , no idea how anyone can say he's play well in the playoffs

Make il your mind - was Willy not good enough for JT, or was he carrying him?

Nether Willy nor Mitch (particularly not Mitch) carried JT. JT benefitted from playing with Willy, but certainly wasn't carried.

Yes, Mitch produces better with Matty than with JT, but that's also true about Willy and Domi. That just shows that Matty is better than JT.

And other than Mitch picking up one more point, JT had a much better playoffs this year than Mitch. It wasn't particularly good, but appreciably better than Mitch's.

 

[notDatsyuk]

i'm not missing anything and no one knows what Mitch will be asking for in his next deal

I don't want JT back at any price including league min , 6 soon to be 7 yrs of listening to people make excuses for him while throwing the team under bus to deflect attention away from his poor play is more than enough for me

and just to add , i'm all for trading any player if it makes us better but i'm not moving Mitch for depth pieces just so the angry horde can get their pound of flesh , if there's a high quality offer then make the deal , if not work out a contract and keep him long term

You kept conflating current and future contracts, so I assumed you were missing the difference. If not why did you treat the two different things as the same?

Of course nobody knows what Mitch will want in his next contract, but there are good indications.

I don't want JT back after next year either, but I can see it happening, and if it's for no more than a year or two at 2 or 3 per, I can live with that, and I think the team can too.

If Mitch comes back at 7 or 8 per, that's tolerable, but if, as generally expected, he's looking for more than 10 (and possibly 12 or 13), then it isn't.

I think we've learned that three forwards making over 10 each doesn't work, and Mitch in particular doesn't give value in the playoffs. With Matty and Willy signed long term, we have our two best forwards, so we shouldn't add a third.

Trading him, or anyone else, for more appropriate players isn't appeasing an angry horde, but making the smart decisions for a change.

 

[hotpaws]

Make il your mind - was Willy not good enough for JT, or was he carrying him?

Nether Willy nor Mitch (particularly not Mitch) carried JT. JT benefitted from playing with Willy, but certainly wasn't carried.

Yes, Mitch produces better with Matty than with JT, but that's also true about Willy and Domi. That just shows that Matty is better than JT.

And other than Mitch picking up one more point, JT had a much better playoffs this year than Mitch. It wasn't particularly good, but appreciably better than Mitch's.

do i have to recap the entire season for you ?

- Willie got off to a blistering hot pace and CARRIED JT to a good start ,
- Willie cooled off and Johnny production went into the tank
- Johnny was moved to the 3rd line to get easier matchups but tanked the line and whoever he played with
- Johnny was moved back up into the top 6 and the first pp unit to pad his starts because he started to whine and cry
- playoffs came and post season Johnny showed up which means he was mediocre to bad as usual

but this being said , for the 15th season in a row it's not JT's fault , it's his teammates/coach/fans/media/injuries/new father/owners/weather/cra's fault Johnny failed yet again

 

[hotpaws]

You kept conflating current and future contracts, so I assumed you were missing the difference. If not why did you treat the two different things as the same?

Of course nobody knows what Mitch will want in his next contract, but there are good indications.

I don't want JT back after next year either, but I can see it happening, and if it's for no more than a year or two at 2 or 3 per, I can live with that, and I think the team can too.

If Mitch comes back at 7 or 8 per, that's tolerable, but if, as generally expected, he's looking for more than 10 (and possibly 12 or 13), then it isn't.

I think we've learned that three forwards making over 10 each doesn't work, and Mitch in particular doesn't give value in the playoffs. With Matty and Willy signed long term, we have our two best forwards, so we shouldn't add a third.

Trading him, or anyone else, for more appropriate players isn't appeasing an angry horde, but making the smart decisions for a change.

who their right mind would believe Mitch will come in at 7/8m ? if he was a ufa now he'd easily have a lineup of teams offering him min 10 plus

i can get ''appropriate pieces'' easily , what hard to get is elite pieces and there's a fine line between making the playoffs consistently like the Leafs have been doing and looking at teams like the Wings/Sabres/Sens who all have talent and wondering what's keeping them on the outside looking in

what doesn't work is having to consistently make excuses for a player your paying an 8 digit salary too , if your players level of play matches there salaries it's very doable to carry high salaried players

 

[arso40]

Mitch and Willie have been carrying JT since he's been on the Leafs and they tried him with grinders this year (McMann among others ) and he completely killed off their production , the third line did shit so they moved him back with Marner when he came back from his high ankle sprain .

also not only is Mitch much better in the regular season but he's also been much in the playoffs , JT has has exactly 1 good playoff series not playoffs his entire career and none with us , no idea how anyone can say he's play well in the playoffs

Jt actually did good on the third line with Robertson and mcmann I think it was

 

[rumman]

I thought the arguments re Marner were obvious. Marner's "form" in the playoffs vs. the regular season are vastly different. Marner is a soft $4 million (or less) "defensive forward" in the playoffs. The juice ain't worth the squeeze.

Agree, years of failure demand a change, start with Marner, see how JT plays in his final season, trade Rielly if possible. Within one season more than half the core could be gone, that’s how you change the culture of a team……

So what does this mean? Pettersson has had a positively terrible playoffs so far, and Tocchet hasn't sat him or even really reduced his ice time all that much. He was baby soft in his "criticism" of him publicly. So where is the accountability? Coaches of good teams don't bench or press box their best players. Berube won't do it in Toronto, either, and he doesn't need to. Benching 27 year old superstars isn't going to accomplish anything.

Your right, trading underperforming overpaid players isn’t easy, but that’s how you fix the problem……….

 

[NCoRe]

I was hoping for Gallant, but not my call

Welcocme to the fam Chief

 

[ACC1224]

If he's so great then why didn't another team hire him after he got fired

He was the Leafs just hired him.
It’s in the title of this thread.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You make some good points, it’s the revisionist / hindsight smugness that rubs me the wrong way. As you say things change with time but even when JT signed some fans did say the last year or 2 may be bad. Well so they are, for sure JT’s next deal won’t be as high. In Marner it’s a safe bet we get at least a point a game. Having 11 million to spend does not guarantee we replace that. Brodie and Bertuzzi are about 11 million. I’d keep Mitch thanks.

‘Having said that if we aren’t going to allow Mitch to be Mitch but try and make him some defensive hard hitting snarly power forward then it is best for the club to let him go. Which brings me back to what I’ve always believed, he won’t waive and will more than likely walk for nothing.

And then when the playoffs start and the pressure rises, he starts to fade away. For someone like you who doesn't care about the playoffs that might be acceptable, but for 99.99+% of fans, it is not.