Confirmed with Link: Craig Berube named the 32nd Coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs

[ACC1224]

No way Mitch gets even 12 mil on his next contract. Just because he was erroneously tied to Auston's salary in the past, doesn't mean it is meant to or will continue.

That would be the GMs decision not Berubes.
FYI - the coach doesn’t handle contract negotiations

 

[Notsince67]

If you want to ride Marner go ahead, just do it in a different city………

This is what will happen because this is a rerun. Leafs don't sign Marner in the offseason. He has a career year. Leafs then forced to overpay him to keep him. People then complain about how stupid the Leafs were for not signing him early. Rinse repeat.
I would be really surprised if they attempt a signing now at a favorable price. The 92 million cap projection in 2025 will be squandered.

That would be the GMs decision not Berubes.
FYI - the coach doesn’t handle contract negotiations

That and few people here have ever been competent in predicting contracts

 

[IPS]

Maybe they ask him to play a different style? Hyman, Kadri and others seem to do well once they have a different coach. As I’ve said numerous times everybody disappears on this coached team not just Marner.

Keefe got beat, team went away from their strengths to play some defensive playoff style. Should have just kept on with what got them there.

Keefe gave his offensive players freedom to do what they like. It wasn't some strict Darryl Sutter defensive system he was imposing them.

It's 2024, when is it time to stop blaming everybody around the core.

 

[Sypher04]

Ok, im just not seeing it in many posts I guess.

Marner consistently out produces Nylander. How is he worse than Nylander? Matthews is just as bad in the Playoffs and if you want to talk salary he is the highest paid player in the league. But it seems like people are acting like Marner is far behind the other two even though he has more playoff points than Matthews or Nylander in their careers.

Between the 3 they all kinda do the same thing but the vast majority of posts single out Marner And overall people seem pretty ok with Nylander and Matthews. I'm just interested in why he's getting singled out. Is there something specific that applies to him that doesn't apply to Mathews or Nylander?

I would say the difference is that neither of 34 or 88 have played on those new deals yet and both outperformed their existing deal I think rather handily. Nylander especially will be opened up to a ton more criticism next year based on making 4.5M more if he doesn’t deliver

 

[Confucius]

Keefe gave his offensive players freedom to do what they like. It wasn't some strict Darryl Sutter defensive system he was imposing them.

It's 2024, when is it time to stop blaming everybody around the core.

I’d like to think you were correct but the playoff stats for players indicate they do much better when they leave or were much better before they came.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why is Marner the only one getting the blame for their playoffs. Matthews is just as bad if not worse but he doesn't seem to get any heat for it, just a lot of excuses. When it comes down to it he's the league's highest paid player shouldn't the expectation be near McDavid level?

If you think Marner's the only one getting blame then you haven't been paying attention, like not even a little bit.

 

[IPS]

I’d like to think you were correct but the playoff stats for players indicate they do much better when they leave or were much better before they came.

So who'd Hyman and co. play with when they were here? Who was Hyman's most common line-mate during his time in Toronto?

Believe me I'm not defending Keefe in anyway, if there was any problem with his coaching it was giving them too much offensive freedom / opportunity.

 

[TS Quint]

If you think Marner's the only one getting blame then you haven't been paying attention, like not even a little bit.

As much as this condecending post was super helpful,care to explain? Maybe quote the posts in the thread critizing Matthews as well.

 

[Confucius]

So who'd Hyman and co. play with when they were here? Who was Hyman's most common line-mate during his time in Toronto?

Believe me I'm not defending Keefe in anyway, if there was any problem with his coaching it was giving them too much offensive freedom / opportunity.

Well if it was just linemates and he couldn’t produce with Marner, Mathews, Nylander, Kadri. Mathews has won a few rockets, Marner has been flirting with 100 points. I don’t buy they all disappear come playoff time because they are afraid of the boogeyman. Where in Edmonton he has big McDavid and tough guy Draisaityl. lol!

 

[Aus34Matt]

As much as this condecending post was super helpful,care to explain? Maybe quote the posts in the thread critizing Matthews as well.

Focus is on Marner since he's the most obvious and 'easiest' hi-cap salary to be dissolved (other than JT) after next season.

 

[myleafs]

Mitch and Willie have been carrying JT since he's been on the Leafs and they tried him with grinders this year (McMann among others ) and he completely killed off their production , the third line did shit so they moved him back with Marner when he came back from his high ankle sprain .

also not only is Mitch much better in the regular season but he's also been much in the playoffs , JT has has exactly 1 good playoff series not playoffs his entire career and none with us , no idea how anyone can say he's played well in the playoffs

I thought JT played some of his best hockey on the 3rd line.

i'm not missing anything and no one knows what Mitch will be asking for in his next deal

I don't want JT back at any price including league min , 6 soon to be 7 yrs of listening to people make excuses for him while throwing the team under bus to deflect attention away from his poor play is more than enough for me

and just to add , i'm all for trading any player if it makes us better but i'm not moving Mitch for depth pieces just so the angry horde can get their pound of flesh , if there's a high quality offer then make the deal , if not work out a contract and keep him long term

As long as you are aware that that leopard is not changing its spots.

 

[nuck]

Ok, im just not seeing it in many posts I guess.

Marner consistently out produces Nylander. How is he worse than Nylander? Matthews is just as bad in the Playoffs and if you want to talk salary he is the highest paid player in the league. But it seems like people are acting like Marner is far behind the other two even though he has more playoff points than Matthews or Nylander in their careers.

Between the 3 they all kinda do the same thing but the vast majority of posts single out Marner And overall people seem pretty ok with Nylander and Matthews. I'm just interested in why he's getting singled out. Is there something specific that applies to him that doesn't apply to Mathews or Nylander?

I think just because he is the one that isn't extended. Now that the overpay for Willie is in the books that is expected to likely be MM's floor. I am not sure why they signed Nylander when they did except maybe Shanahan/Tre were afraid he would score 120pts but the die is cast.

Mitch has a bit of a rep for disappearing in physical games as opposed to just being less effective when he is getting mugged. He is maybe a little less likeable because of the way he sometimes expresses himself. And as acrimonious as Willies first contract deal was, he made it into a bargain which Mitch couldn't quite do and the agent/family had a little bit of a pissy relationship with the club back then. And as fans of the club is there any reason to throw support behind MM when he is the guy closest to leaving?

I would have let Keefe go and traded Willie last summer but they were still patient and sticking to the process Now it seems either Mitch goes or run it back so I choose the former and arguing the merits of him over the others seems pointless. His best years may still be ahead of him which would be great so long as its with another club.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yeah … It was kinda my point. He took a hot goalie and nice roster to the cup and the roster changed and the goalie didn’t stand on his head and the losses piled up in playoffs.

Did he fail to make his players accountable after the cup run?

Even hard nosed coaches need talent and a goalie and some luck

I think all coaches need players and some luck to have success in the playoffs.
Berube is not going to win us the Cup by himself, I don’t think any coaches can.
What he can bring is a different voice and different approach to the team.
Now would he be successful, nobody knows but one thing for certain, Keefe could not get it done.

 

[Aashir]

Why is Marner the only one getting the blame for their playoffs. Matthews is just as bad if not worse but he doesn't seem to get any heat for it, just a lot of excuses. When it comes down to it he's the league's highest paid player shouldn't the expectation be near McDavid level?

Personally, I’ve been criticizing all of them, but to your point it’s probably because of play styles
Matthews “plays the right way” in the playoffs. He engages in scrums, is in the slot and front of the net area and usually has 1 game in the series where he looks like a Mcdavid-esque player. Marner can never put together a game like that, he didn’t have a single multi-point game in this series. Also matthews has “injuries” every year.

Marner’s style has him choosing to stay at the point for 99% of our offensive zone time, he never goes to the front of the net or even the slot tbh, he took 1 shot in the last 3 games. He passed up a slot chance twice to instead give it to Edmundson and jarnkrok. He didn’t take the free goal Swayman gave him. He just plays an insanely passive almost scared style of hockey that almost never works.

It just seems whenever you need Marner, he’s never there.

People are also ok with nylander, because he makes 7. Now that he’s on 11.5 let’s see how that goes. Moreover, he produced in elimination games much more than the other two. If we need a big goal, I’m looking towards nylander to do something, not Marner. Also he plays with JT, so some excuse him a bite because he plays with a 3C in the playoffs every year and the scraps of the 2LW.

 

[Gallagbi]

As much as this condecending post was super helpful,care to explain? Maybe quote the posts in the thread critizing Matthews as well.

I think they all receive blame, but it's not equal because their play hasn't been either

Matthews gets the GWG in a key Game 2, sets up the go ahead goal in Game 7. Willy scores key goals in game 6 and 7. Hell, even Tavares is key in the Game 5 GWG.

Marner seems to have the same lowpoints as the rest of the core, arguably more often, with less high points. You can rewind to the TB series last year where we won and Tavares, Matthews and Willy all played key roles. Marner produced, but his impact seemed to be less and in quieter fashion

 

[Gabriel426]

Well if it was just linemates and he couldn’t produce with Marner, Mathews, Nylander, Kadri. Mathews has won a few rockets, Marner has been flirting with 100 points. I don’t buy they all disappear come playoff time because they are afraid of the boogeyman. Where in Edmonton he has big McDavid and tough guy Draisaityl. lol!

You are arguing for the sake of argument.
Hyman was never used the way Oilers used him when he was here and that goes back to Babs.
Hyman mainly played with AM and Willie, then JT and MM, then AM and MM. His role had always been to fetch the puck for the other guys. Also, his nickname was stone hands and where the plays die on his stick here.
Like many said, including me, many times, Hyamn will never be Hyman today if he stays in Toronto due to his role.
Kadri always had talents but he always stuck behind our top guys for mins and PP1 time. He was getting 3C mins the moment AM becomes our 1C. And Babs refused to use him as a winger unlike the Avs where he was used as a winger for a while.
Our core players for some strange reason just disappeared in the playoffs. It is really not for a lack of trying or caring but rather it is really them not adopting their games to beat what the opposing teams throw at them. The only one who seemed to be able to do that is Willie and that’s a reason why he seemed to scored as many goals as the other three combined in the playoffs.

 

[myleafs]

It was sped up because a star centre was available, and strength is built from the middle.

The initial decision to sign him was sound, the poor asset management came later when it was obvious that Covid was going to flat line the cap for years. At that point, with the wingers in the core four not yet signed with NMC's, they should have bit down and traded one of them to create the cap flexibility needed to firm up the defense.

We had a perfectly capable 1-2 punch with Matthews and Kadri (4.5) and needed help on the blueline. We started off the rebuild correctly then dubas just through it all out the window and tried to take a shortcut, and here we are. Underachievers.

They were closer than you think. Managements subsequent inability to adjust to the flat cap is what led them to where they are.

They really werent.

 

[Martin Skoula]

We had a perfectly capable 1-2 punch with Matthews and Kadri (4.5) and needed help on the blueline. We started off the rebuild correctly then dubas just through it all out the window and tried to take a shortcut, and here we are. Underachievers.


They really werent.

We really didn’t start it correctly, spending a 1st++ on a mentally fragile goalie and 2 2nds on 4th liner rentals when we had glaring holes on D already started it off on a rushed foot. Either front run Tampa on the McDonagh + Miller for 1st + 2nd + 2nd deal or keep your picks and sell off Bozak, JVR, etc and keep building out your prospect pool. Forgetting the rebuild because we made it to the playoffs by a hair set an awful precedent.

 

[myleafs]

We really didn’t start it correctly, spending a 1st++ on a mentally fragile goalie and 2 2nds on 4th liner rentals when we had glaring holes on D already started it off on a rushed foot. Either front run Tampa on the McDonagh + Miller for 1st + 2nd + 2nd deal or keep your picks and sell off Bozak, JVR, etc and keep building out your prospect pool. Forgetting the rebuild because we made it to the playoffs by a hair set an awful precedent.

I mean start it correctly right from bottoming out and gettting our 3 amigos...if we had stayed the course and took our time I think we are in a much better position than we are now.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

We really didn’t start it correctly, spending a 1st++ on a mentally fragile goalie and 2 2nds on 4th liner rentals when we had glaring holes on D already started it off on a rushed foot. Either front run Tampa on the McDonagh + Miller for 1st + 2nd + 2nd deal or keep your picks and sell off Bozak, JVR, etc and keep building out your prospect pool. Forgetting the rebuild because we made it to the playoffs by a hair set an awful precedent.

Could definitely make an argument that trading for Freddy help derailed the plan. Despite his shitty playoff performances he’s great in the regular season and he helped drag the 16-17 Leafs to the playoffs when they probably would’ve been better off tanking one more year and getting Heiskanen or Makar.

 

[MSZ]

Ok, im just not seeing it in many posts I guess.

Marner consistently out produces Nylander. How is he worse than Nylander? Matthews is just as bad in the Playoffs and if you want to talk salary he is the highest paid player in the league. But it seems like people are acting like Marner is far behind the other two even though he has more playoff points than Matthews or Nylander in their careers.

Between the 3 they all kinda do the same thing but the vast majority of posts single out Marner And overall people seem pretty ok with Nylander and Matthews. I'm just interested in why he's getting singled out. Is there something specific that applies to him that doesn't apply to Mathews or Nylander?

Marner fans always talk about his point totals, how many of his points came from game 5 to 7? People call him out because he was nowhere to be found when the opponent deployed the stingiest defense in elimination games.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I mean start it correctly right from bottoming out and gettting our 3 amigos...if we had stayed the course and took our time I think we are in a much better position than we are now.

We never really had a string of years where we had 20 top-90 picks in 3 years like Arizona or any of the other strip down rebuilds. 3 amigos you can draft by being bad at hockey, getting that backlog of 2nds and 3rds where you find your goalies and D to round out the core is the actual hard work of a rebuild. We did not do that at all and instead got 2 months of Tomas Plekanec and own renting Bozak and JVR.

 

[DarkKnight]

First, Mitch never carried JT, and still can't.

Second, most people weren't complaining that Willy wasn't good enough to be his winger, but either that JT wasn't good enough to centre Willy, or (more correctly) that they just didn't fit.

Finally, JT doesn't need either a Mitch or a Willy type - he needs slower, north-south grinders.

I don’t think he carried JT, but he scored a whopping 12 more even strength goals his entire career when he played with Marner that year. Easily his best season oin this league , it wasn’t coincidence.

I think we can still appreciate that Marner is a borderline elite star while still agreeing he hasn’t got the job done when it matters. Not you, but this place is always so black and white, and frankly the lack of nuance is a pretty boring read.

 

[rumman]

This is what will happen because this is a rerun. Leafs don't sign Marner in the offseason. He has a career year. Leafs then forced to overpay him to keep him. People then complain about how stupid the Leafs were for not signing him early. Rinse repeat.
I would be really surprised if they attempt a signing now at a favorable price. The 92 million cap projection in 2025 will be squandered.


That and few people here have ever been competent in predicting contracts

No way I’d resign Marner regardless of what kind of season he has, once he’s gone and JT is either off the books or playing for peanuts the opportunity to rethink how the cap should be spent will be available, that and get rid of another cap anchor in Rielly, he’s going to be the next Brodie, book it………

 

[Gallagbi]

I don’t think he carried JT, but he scored a whopping 12 more even strength goals his entire career when he played with Marner that year. Easily his best season oin this league , it wasn’t coincidence.

I think we can still appreciate that Marner is a borderline elite star while still agreeing he hasn’t got the job done when it matters. Not you, but this place is always so black and white, and frankly the lack of nuance is a pretty boring read.

His biggest issue is translating to playoffs. He's been elite in the regular season (Mitch)