Coyotes Tempe arena project rejected by public referendum - will remain at Mullett Arena for 2023-24

[Dolemite]

I haven't. My God please tell me you have something that's gonna make me laugh evern harder than I already have

That's just like me saying that the Bolts need to move from Florida because there's no fans there and they're all out surfing.

 

[Shwan]

Not being familiar enough with either, can you please point out the differences? Thanks.

The GPLET is a straight property tax exemption where the city takes control of the property for an amount of time and the developer gets to pay a much smaller excise tax instead of property tax because if the city owns the property it's not going to tax itself.

While the tax exemption was to be used for blighted/dilapidated property, for the last few years the City has been giving the GPLET to just about anyone. Here's a list of current GPLET properties for Tempe. Quite a lot of taxes being missed out on in the name of economic development.

South Pier and TED had the same development cost of about $1.8 Billion but South Pier has a longer construction window by about a decade. They only asked for the GPLET in exchange for buying and developing the land. South Pier also wanted to be on yesterdays ballot so the citizens could decide if construction could continue but Tempe stopped them.

This is long winded but just trying to illustrate that you just can't look at this Arena deal through a single lense. The Coyotes were absolutely a victim of bad timing. If Meruelo became owner January 1st 2019 this deal probably would have gone through without issue.

Especially given the very shaky economic environment we're heading in there's a lot more forces at play than people realize so it's disingenuous write off No voters as misinformed/uninformed. Most of the no voters I talked to had a pretty good grasp on the situation and felt the GPLET plus community facilities district plus tax splitting was a bridge too far in the current climate.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Thank Gretzky for that.

Something tells me you either have an axe to grind with the Great One, or haven't read anything else about this saga which was destined to fail since '96. Answer me this, is #99 the reason this team hasn't turned a dollar in profit since moving to the Desert?

 

[Dolemite]

This is just sad. Instead of begging the state and city for money the owner should pony it up if they are serious in keeping the team there.

They haven't. It's like people don't have reading skills.

The coyotes foot the bill.

Tempe pays for removing the pile of dirt that they're going to remove anyways.

Is that simple enough?

Something tells me you either have an axe to grind with the Great One, or haven't read anything else about this saga which was destined to fail since '96. Answer me this, is #99 the reason this team hasn't turned a dollar in profit since moving to the Desert?

You clearly missed this.

Coyotes Tempe arena project rejected by public referendum - will remain at Mullett Arena for 2023-24

As I have said before, if it has to be Quebec City, fine. Can keep them in the Central for a few years. I think people are to hung up on not having another team in the ETZ. More likely that the league would go back to unbalanced conferences for awhile -- 17 in the EC, 15 in the WC.

forums.hfboards.com

 

[BergevinBurner]

Matthews to Arizona is back on the menu.

 

[These Are The Days]

That's just like me saying that the Bolts need to move from Florida because there's no fans there and they're all out surfing.

Dude are you kidding me? I love the loyalty by the NHL here. I know there's countless millions to support the Yotes but politics and bad business dealings keep derailing the train

 

[Boris Zubov]

They haven't. It's like people don't have reading skills.

The coyotes foot the bill.

Tempe pays for removing the pile of dirt that they're going to remove anyways.

Is that simple enough?


You clearly missed this.

Coyotes Tempe arena project rejected by public referendum - will remain at Mullett Arena for 2023-24

As I have said before, if it has to be Quebec City, fine. Can keep them in the Central for a few years. I think people are to hung up on not having another team in the ETZ. More likely that the league would go back to unbalanced conferences for awhile -- 17 in the EC, 15 in the WC.

forums.hfboards.com

Ok I'm done. Nice chatting.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

Long live the Yotes!

 

[Dolemite]

Ok I'm done. Nice chatting.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[MessierII]

Clarified post. The concentration is along the corridor from SLC south to Provo which is in the CMA but not Metro. But it’s a direct drive that is probably faster than getting across town in many NHL cities. It’s 45 minutes from Provo to Vivint Arena.

So there is a true perspective there that involves looking past one “population” metric. The huge outlying areas don’t contribute a lot of that 2.7 million.

Other reasons to knock SLC down perhaps (older arena and shared tenant during the entire season with the Jazz) but I don’t think you can look at population and population growth and use that as the negative anymore. It’s also the 29th ranked US media market. The region is comparable and probably healthier than several already existing or wanna be NHL markets.

Looks like the only way you get to 2.7 is combining north from Ogden/clear field south through salt lake to the provo area plus east to herber. Salt Lake City Is right in the middle of this so it might work but that’s still a big stretch. This isn’t football where there’s 16 games once a week it’s a bigger commitment to come to 41 games.

Can’t see it doing worse than phoenix though.

 

[KCC]

Gary is a special breed of embarrassing.

Even if the team relocates it's impossible to move them to a new city before next season. A few Summer months is not enough time. It takes a lot to make that happen. I would say if the arena has already been built to where they could potentially relocate you still need to give it a year or two to get it all sorted out.

 

[Boris Zubov]

The GPLET is a straight property tax exemption where the city takes control of the property for an amount of time and the developer gets to pay a much smaller excise tax instead of property tax because if the city owns the property it's not going to tax itself.

While the tax exemption was to be used for blighted/dilapidated property, for the last few years the City has been giving the GPLET to just about anyone. Here's a list of current GPLET properties for Tempe. Quite a lot of taxes being missed out on in the name of economic development.

South Pier and TED had the same development cost of about $1.8 Billion but South Pier has a longer construction window by about a decade. They only asked for the GPLET in exchange for buying and developing the land. South Pier also wanted to be on yesterdays ballot so the citizens could decide if construction could continue but Tempe stopped them.

This is long winded but just trying to illustrate that you just can't look at this Arena deal through a single lense. The Coyotes were absolutely a victim of bad timing. If Meruelo became owner January 1st 2019 this deal probably would have gone through without issue.

Especially given the very shaky economic environment we're heading in there's a lot more forces at play than people realize so it's disingenuous write off No voters as misinformed/uninformed. Most of the no voters I talked to had a pretty good grasp on the situation and felt the GPLET plus community facilities district plus tax splitting was a bridge too far in the current climate.

Thanks for taking the time to type this out. I agree the No voters weren't "uninformed", my previous post was specifically in reference to other shitty public money sports deals such as Calgary's proposal. Bottom line is the Coyotes don't have enough support in the region.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

How cheesed must ATlanta Thrashers fans be? Gary didn't show nearly the same resolve for them.

 

[KCC]

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

That's the Nile, not Denial. lol

How cheesed must ATlanta Thrashers fans be? Gary didn't show nearly the same resolve for them.

False. Clearly he did if he and the league brought the team back a second time. lol

 

[Nasti]

If a relocation did take place, I would think Houston or another central location would be the destination. Anything else would require realignment again. Like if they decided to move them to San Diego, then you’d probably have to also move Colorado to the Pacific and both Edmonton and Calgary to the Central. It gets even more complex if they move east since no team already in the east will want to move to the west with the majority of their road games being played late at night.

 

[BKarchitect]

Looks like the only way you get to 2.7 is combining north from Ogden/clear field south through salt lake to the provo area plus east to herber. Salt Lake City Is right in the middle of this so it might work but that’s still a big stretch. This isn’t football where there’s 16 games once a week it’s a bigger commitment to come to 41 games.

Can’t see it doing worse than phoenix though.

Not saying your numbers are wrong - I appreciate that you have taken the time to dig into it. So many people comp completely random and often not apples to apples populations (to be fair - it’s confusing).

I do disagree though, at least on the population aspect. And I think it would be a regional draw even if it’s not an NFL type event.

That said - if you wanna say the Jazz are competing for the same dollars and same “weekday calendar spaces” - I think that does add a wrinkle to think about.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

How cheesed must ATlanta Thrashers fans be? Gary didn't show nearly the same resolve for them.

The Thrashers had no arena to play in

The NHL could do nothing about that

 

[Albatros]

The reality of what's in front of ones eyes have no political slant or narrative. It's all factual events happening and the normal citizens in those communities, as well as victims of crime, deserve more.

But I'm sure the mom and pop shop that had their store burned down and lost everything think it's some political narrative. Or if you just look at the statistics for crime, Portland is not one of the safest cities. Facts be damned!

Well, if arson numbers are for some inexplicable reason your standard then the prospective Portland franchise would be on par with the Wild, the Penguins, the Blue Jackets. Nothing that the league needs to be concerned about.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Let's see here. During Gretzky's time as Coyotes Director of Hockey Operations...Let me repeat that DIRECTOR OF HOCKEY OPERATIONS:

- Decided he would become coach without any coaching experience. Patrick Roy paid his coaching dues as a Junior Coach before becoming the Avs coach.
- Hired friends to the front office whose only contribution to the team was golfing during practice times
- Traded away Daniel Briere for magic beans and a cow Arizona Coyotes Throwback: Daniel Briere
- Bungled the development of prospects, most notably Kyle Turris, again and again.
- Players that played under him had no idea what he was trying to do on a nightly basis.

Coach Gretzky and the Dog Days As Phoenix Coyotes Bench Boss

A Reflection of Wayne Gretzky as a bench boss of the Arizona Coyotes, formerly known as Phoenix Coyotes. How did the Great One do as Coach Gretzky?

lastwordonsports.com

Seven reasons why Wayne Gretzky failed as Coyotes coach

Wayne Gretzky resigned as head coach of the Phoenix Coyotes yesterday, and it was the right decision.

ca.sports.yahoo.com

Official Site of the National Hockey League | NHL.com

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

Ergo he trashed the franchise with major damage that the team is still recovering from.

Imagine blaming the Daniel Briere trade and headcoaching experience on why the Arizona Coyotes are on their way out.

Breathtakingly stupid.

 

[Sol]

That's the Nile, not Denial. lol

don’t be hard on him. It’s actually denial. The Nile just denies it’s existent.

 

[Blitzkrug]

They're going to run out that Mullet Arena lease, I guarantee it.

Imagine blaming the Daniel Briere trade and headcoaching experience on why the Arizona Coyotes are on their way out.

Breathtakingly stupid.

Don't engage him. He's an idiot.

 

[Chainshot]

Matthews to Arizona is back on the menu.
View attachment 709641

Is he buying the team?

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

The Thrashers had no arena to play in

The NHL could do nothing about that

There is no 5k arena in Atlanta? Asking sincerely, I don't know the city. Happy for Yotes fans, mind you.

 

[Blitzkrug]

There is no 5k arena in Atlanta? Asking sincerely, I don't know the city. Happy for Yotes fans, mind you.

There's no hockey capable arena in the city period from what I understand. Phillips Arena had their ice making/maintaining stuff taken out years ago.

Hence why that group is trying to build a new one just outside the city.

 

[Sol]

Bro just let them die. Why are they so hardstuck on Arizona? They have pretty much no fanbase.