Coyotes Tempe arena project rejected by public referendum - will remain at Mullett Arena for 2023-24

[BKarchitect]

Is Kevin Weekes just going to post a picture of a new city each week with eye emojis and then pretend like he knew something all along when one of the 50 cities he posted a pic of gets a team someday?

 

[hacksaw7]

A someone who has casually rooted for the Coyotes over the years, this is awful news. I have a good friend that just moved to Arizona and was looking forward to going to games as I would go and visit. I don't know how long the process to move could take, but hopefully I can make it in time for a game.

As an Isles fan it was awful in the years things were up in the air, to lose your team is devastating. I can't imagine what it's like for Coyotes fans.

It's really sad and annoying to see all these folks, largely Canadian hockey fans, actively celebrating the demise of a franchise and loss of a team from an area. No one wants to lose their team, and gloating isn't a good look.

I love the idea of hockey in non-traditional markets and with the proper ownership it can absolutely work. Four non-traditional hockey markets are current the last four teams in the playoffs, and I think that's a beautiful thing.

I hope a miracle happens and the Yotes stay. I've met some awesome fans of the team and they deserve it.

It's justice. For what happened to the original Jets in 1996. The league couldn't wait to abandon that city and rush into Arizona. They didn't try nearly as hard to save that team and make it work...here they tried for 10+ years, keeping a franchise in a literal sports version of a vegetative state, even accepting embarrassing unthinkable situations like playing in some micro collegiate arena. And all this time ignoring cities and fans that wanted teams, that deserved teams, just to force themselves on Arizona

The league got what it deserved here. They wasted a decade when they could've been thriving elsewhere long ago

Amazing huh. 27 years later the Jets are still standing while the Coyotes are about to get the plug pulled on them

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...Buttman's next idea; why not try Atlanta again...3rd time's a charm, right??...

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

...Buttman's next idea; why not try Atlanta again...3rd time's a charm, right??...

Better yet, Altantis. Gotta go for that mermaid market.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I keep seeing posts like "I feel bad for the fans" and I'm just like "aren't the Coyotes leaving because fans aren't showing up?". I don't like blaming fans for team failures often, but this time it seems really appropriate?

The NHL has been bending over backwards trying to make the Coyotes work. The Coyotes have gotten substantially more support from Bettman and the owners than I'd imagine any other team would get from them. But fans just still don't show up. In reality, the NHL should have canned this idea years ago because the fans have shown they don't give a crap.

 

[Boris Zubov]

The NHL.

But this would also apply to the Coyotes.

The team is probably out of contigencies, no matter how they decide to spin it.

The NHL however had to know this failling was somewhat of a possibility. They probably would love to avoid a lame duck season at Mullett, but they may have to suck it up for a year while they figure out the best move forward without taking it in the shorts. Ideally they'd love to pivot to Houston immediately, but Fertitta isn't going to pay them what they want, so they'll need to decide how much they need to save face vs the big picture & the benefits of Houston in the long run.

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

Eh, political narratives aside Portland would be one of the safest NHL cities. Certainly more so than Phoenix.

The reality of what's in front of ones eyes have no political slant or narrative. It's all factual events happening and the normal citizens in those communities, as well as victims of crime, deserve more.

But I'm sure the mom and pop shop that had their store burned down and lost everything think it's some political narrative. Or if you just look at the statistics for crime, Portland is not one of the safest cities. Facts be damned!

Going by that narrative, let's not put a team in Houston as people will likely be shot. There's shootings in Texas all the time. It's not safe. The news says so.

Portland isn't that bad. Feel like these places are being cleaned up post covid.

So you live in Seattle, so you're skewed. Your city has plenty of similar issues, including attempting to have some autonomous zone that was just anarchy and predictably failed.

You should read your first paragraph again, you say Houston then mention Texas. One is a city, one is a state, so your remark is flawed. Not to mention statistically firearm mortality in Texas vs Oregon isn't that much different.

Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

www.cdc.gov

Or take a glance at property crimes and look what two cities make up the top 3 in three different property crime categories? Seattle and Portland.

Statistics have no bias, but your state and the guy above you are very wrong.

But no one needs news when you can watch a live stream of a city literally being burned and destroyed, not to mention videos (no commentary) of strung out drug addicts all over. Then you can look at the leniency of the district attorneys in places.

 

[robertocarlos]

"That's it! Back to Winnipeg".

 

[Shwan]

Meruelo was offering to fully finance this deal. All he wanted from Tempe was to create a tax district to pay off the infrastructure. Taxes from the use of the facilities...no new taxes to residents were being proposed. This was actually a pretty sweet deal for the area which included cleaning up a landfill that's currently generating no tax revenue as it sits.

Sure it sounds like a good deal, until I tell you the guys 2 miles to the east who are also building a $1.8B luxury retail/office/apartment entertainment district only wanted the GPLET property tax exemption.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Just looked it up for my own curiosity, and while the announcement came a few days later, in 2011 the Globe and Mail broke the news of Atlanta moving to Winnipeg on May 19. No doubt practical moves and preparations were in the works for weeks, if not months or years before, in case such a day would happen (this would include marketing preparation, a season ticket drive a push of a button away, and staffing - not to mention an NHL arena and rich owners already on speed dial at NHL HQ).

As far as I know, there's no place as prepared or as far down the road Winnipeg was then, now. Whatever comes about, I'll be pretty surprised if they can get a relocation set up for 2023-2024.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Deal, let's see the money

Well there's no chance of that now, you just broke the main terms of the agreement!

 

[Gotaf7]

It’s time to needle the dog!

 

[uncleben]

...Buttman's next idea; why not try Atlanta again...3rd time's a charm, right??...

Honestly, maybe.

The Flames team was a completely different era, economy, and city essentially, and the Thrashers' ownership was pretty much bad news bears for the team. Expansion ownership would at least need to fake interest in the team.

 

[robertocarlos]

Where ever they go, an NHL ready arena is a must, so what places have a 20k seat hockey arena all ready built?

Why can't they manage with a 2,000 seat arena for 3 years?

 

[hacksaw7]

I keep seeing posts like "I feel bad for the fans" and I'm just like "aren't the Coyotes leaving because fans aren't showing up?". I don't like blaming fans for team failures often, but this time it seems really appropriate?

The NHL has been bending over backwards trying to make the Coyotes work. The Coyotes have gotten substantially more support from Bettman and the owners than I'd imagine any other team would get from them. But fans just still don't show up. In reality, the NHL should have canned this idea years ago because the fans have shown they don't give a crap.

Perhaps more then any franchise in the history of pro sports

For some reason a team was kept around on life support for over a decade. A presence in the league that was nothing more than a hopeless, purposeless waste of time. Players wasted careers there. It was all one big holding pattern until the arena issues got sorted out. Well they waited 10+ years and they never got sorted out.

What could've been if they were moved 10, 11 years ago.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I keep seeing posts like "I feel bad for the fans" and I'm just like "aren't the Coyotes leaving because fans aren't showing up?". I don't like blaming fans for team failures often, but this time it seems really appropriate?

The NHL has been bending over backwards trying to make the Coyotes work. The Coyotes have gotten substantially more support from Bettman and the owners than I'd imagine any other team would get from them. But fans just still don't show up. In reality, the NHL should have canned this idea years ago because the fans have shown they don't give a crap.

The existing fans are not the problem, they are probably the most loyal in the NHL. The issue is they don't have enough of them. Who could blame them for being indifferent after the last 15 years of uncertainty, awful owners & a terrible on ice product.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The existing fans are not the problem, they are probably the most loyal in the NHL. The issue is they don't have enough of them. Who could blame them for being indifferent after the last 15 years of uncertainty, awful owners & a terrible on ice product.

I mean if you can't build up a fanbase in 20 years of being in a city, that just says you shouldn't be in that city.

Look at how a city like Seattle embraced the Kraken even before the Kraken were good.

 

[Scomerica]

The reality of what's in front of ones eyes have no political slant or narrative. It's all factual events happening and the normal citizens in those communities, as well as victims of crime, deserve more.

But I'm sure the mom and pop shop that had their store burned down and lost everything think it's some political narrative. Or if you just look at the statistics for crime, Portland is not one of the safest cities. Facts be damned!



So you live in Seattle, so you're skewed. Your city has plenty of similar issues, including attempting to have some autonomous zone that was just anarchy and predictably failed.

You should read your first paragraph again, you say Houston then mention Texas. One is a city, one is a state, so your remark is flawed. Not to mention statistically firearm mortality in Texas vs Oregon isn't that much different.

Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

www.cdc.gov

Or take a glance at property crimes and look what two cities make up the top 3 in three different property crime categories? Seattle and Portland.

Statistics have no bias, but your state and the guy above you are very wrong.

But no one needs news when you can watch a live stream of a city literally being burned and destroyed, not to mention videos (no commentary) of strung out drug addicts all over. Then you can look at the leniency of the district attorneys in places.

I didn't say it didn't have issues but I think many are overblown and many are just commonplace in big cities. I've saw homelessness in Texas as well, it's just more hidden. The CHAZ was overblown, it was a small section of a block and didn't last long. The media gave the implication it was city wide.

You cherry pick propery crime- what about others like violent crime, none are on the list: Most Dangerous States in the US | PropertyClub.

As I said every big city has addicts, homelessness etc. Was it bad during covid, yes. It's being tidied up more frequently now, especially in parts of downtown. How do you propose these issues be resolved? Especially when other cities ship their homeless to places like Seattle and Portland?

 

[Sparty]

It's so silly how people believe these narratives and absolutely refuse to actually look into it because their confirmation bias is just so damn strong. You'd think Portland is like Thunderdome based on what they say when, in fact, it's no different than it has been for years. They'll use numbers like "homicides increased by 10% last year!!!!" and ignore that it means like 9 more people were killed in a city of 700k.

I think these people just started watching Grimm and thought it was a documentary.

 

[barkovcanfinnish]

I mean if you can't build up a fanbase in 20 years of being in a city, that just says you shouldn't be in that city.

Look at how a city like Seattle embraced the Kraken even before the Kraken were good.

Give the Kraken 20 years of bad ownership, bad team management, and poor on-ice performance and their attendance would probably look like Arizona’s.

 

[Xanlet]

But he was a major chode

Have you listened to any NHL owner? Search up Rocky Wirtz, owner of the Blackhawks, talking about Kyle Beach. If Jim was a major chode, he'd be prime NHL ownership material!

 

[SmytheKing]

The reality of what's in front of ones eyes have no political slant or narrative. It's all factual events happening and the normal citizens in those communities, as well as victims of crime, deserve more.

But I'm sure the mom and pop shop that had their store burned down and lost everything think it's some political narrative. Or if you just look at the statistics for crime, Portland is not one of the safest cities. Facts be damned!



So you live in Seattle, so you're skewed. Your city has plenty of similar issues, including attempting to have some autonomous zone that was just anarchy and predictably failed.

You should read your first paragraph again, you say Houston then mention Texas. One is a city, one is a state, so your remark is flawed. Not to mention statistically firearm mortality in Texas vs Oregon isn't that much different.

Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

www.cdc.gov

Or take a glance at property crimes and look what two cities make up the top 3 in three different property crime categories? Seattle and Portland.

Statistics have no bias, but your state and the guy above you are very wrong.

But no one needs news when you can watch a live stream of a city literally being burned and destroyed, not to mention videos (no commentary) of strung out drug addicts all over. Then you can look at the leniency of the district attorneys in places.

You'll be happy to hear that the crime rate in Portland has gone down then since you're clearly concerned about it. 10% in fact. Good news right?

Property crime is ALSO down.

When it rains it pours I guess. I bet you're thrilled to hear this news since you're purely looking at statistics.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Give the Kraken 20 years of bad ownership, bad team management, and poor on-ice performance and their attendance would probably look like Arizona’s.

In their 1st season in Phoenix, the Coyotes had the 7th lowest attendance in all of hockey while making the playoffs.

 

[DaveG]

Just looked it up for my own curiosity, and while the announcement came a few days later, in 2011 the Globe and Mail broke the news of Atlanta moving to Winnipeg on May 19. No doubt practical moves and preparations were in the works for weeks, if not months or years before, in case such a day would happen (this would include marketing preparation, a season ticket drive a push of a button away, and staffing - not to mention an NHL arena and rich owners already on speed dial at NHL HQ).

As far as I know, there's no place as prepared or as far down the road Winnipeg was then, now. Whatever comes about, I'll be pretty surprised if they can get a relocation set up for 2023-2024.

agreed. I mean it's possible that there have been talks going on between Fertitta and Maurello/the NHL but usually something leaks well ahead of time. Even if the something is complete and total bullshit it will leak as we saw with various potential buyers for the Canes a few years back. Even the most secretive purchase I've ever seen in Winnipeg had more leaking to the public than this. Unless that purchase (or one to SLC) is announced here in short order there just isn't a soft landing spot available right now the way there was in 2011. And not sure SLC would be a soft landing either considering how bad the layout at Vivint is for hockey.

 

[robertocarlos]

any thoughts on what they might be?

There are other planets.

LMAOOOOO the Coyotes are toast. Gary’s pet project just witnessed their most recent embarrassment.

Damn, where are all the people who assured me this new arena was a success? Where are all the folks telling me Matthews to Arizona was guaranteed?

Mexico City is in the central time zone. AM would fit in well.