Speculation: Coyotes 2021 Offseason Roster Discussion Thread #2

[Jamieh]

Starts with Amirov

I don't see the Leafs giving up cheap contracts, they need them too badly.

 

[Heldig]

So $6 million instead of Keller's $7??? The Cap is the same basically as it was then.

cap is the same but revenues are in the toilet.

 

[Jamieh]

cap is the same but revenues are in the toilet.

That's not Garland's problem, someone will pay him market value. Coyotes might get a discount but if they wait too long he's a low compensation offer sheet from the finish line.

 

[Heldig]

That's not Garland's problem, someone will pay him market value. Coyotes might get a discount but if they wait too long he's a low compensation offer sheet from the finish line.

I think it was the HNIC panel that were discussing that money will be very tight except for the premium guys. Cited Hoffman as an example that ended up signing for a fraction of his previous salary.

 

[BUX7PHX]

To me, we ran afoul with poor coaching that did not push players properly, as opposed to poor roster moves.

At some point, you have to have a mix of vets and young players. Very few teams consist of all rookies or under 25 types that go to the playoffs and make it far. The Kessel deal and Hall deal are examples of supplementing the vets with the young talent. Eventually, Kessel would fall off, and Keller would replace. Demers or Hammer would leave and Soderstrom would replace. Hall would help carry the load and the rookies would develop with some of that quality.

Even in these posts, people are saying that if we had not made those deals of POJ for Kessel, or the Hall deal, now we have the rookie depth and picks to make those types of deals. Whether now, or 2-3 years ago, the same logic would have been used to work deals, so what difference does it make if the same logic is used then as it would be used now?

We actually got decent veterans to build with. Poor coaching stunted growth on so many levels. It is clear Kessel may have been a little more injured his first year here, which can happen. But, so little development happened, that we couldn't overcome both poor veteran play and a lack of filling in those gaps by younger athletes. That's why I hope we don't go nuclear, because I think that better coaching can get more out of the current players, but we will likely give up on Garland, OEL, and potentially some others and not get the returns needed. Then, we see the group that stayed get a little better with better coaching, and we will wish that a Garland or OEL was able to stay and grow more, like the other teammates will.

 

[Jamieh]

I think it was the HNIC panel that were discussing that money will be very tight except for the premium guys. Cited Hoffman as an example that ended up signing for a fraction of his previous salary.

I agree with that but I'm not sure Hoffman was in much demand??

 

[XX]

I think it was the HNIC panel that were discussing that money will be very tight except for the premium guys. Cited Hoffman as an example that ended up signing for a fraction of his previous salary.

Hoffman, like Kessel, is a flawed mercenary winger. There will be plenty of money for the prime cuts.

 

[XX]

Alright, so everyone is saying we may as well move Garland because he’s too old, right? So should we move Dvorak and Schmaltz too?

He's a winger that is peaking in value and his cost isn't known. Garland is the most valuable trade chip that you can feasibly move. Depending on how other moves go, BA may have to play that card. Garland may also have some kind of crazy ask for what is essentially one season of production.

It's easy for fans to want to give him 45-50m over seven or eight years because we love him but BA may not be comfortable with that.

I'd be looking over my shoulder if I was Schmaltz as well. His contract is very backloaded and he hasn't exactly impressed or made his desire to stay clear with his play. Very good chance he is moved.

Dvorak is cheap and an effective two way center. He's the last tree to be cut down if it even gets that far.

 

[Jakey53]

I just chalk this report as normal negotiation tactics.

Yup, yet most are getting their panties in a knot.

 

[rt]

He's a winger that is peaking in value and his cost isn't known. Garland is the most valuable trade chip that you can feasibly move. Depending on how other moves go, BA may have to play that card. Garland may also have some kind of crazy ask for what is essentially one season of production.

It's easy for fans to want to give him 45-50m over seven or eight years because we love him but BA may not be comfortable with that.

I'd be looking over my shoulder if I was Schmaltz as well. His contract is very backloaded and he hasn't exactly impressed or made his desire to stay clear with his play. Very good chance he is moved.

Dvorak is cheap and an effective two way center. He's the last tree to be cut down if it even gets that far.

Garland is way better at hockey than they are. By a lot. He’s a factor in every game. They’re invisible in half of them. They’re all 25. But Garland is the one to go? I don’t get it.

 

[XX]

Garland is way better at hockey than they are. By a lot. He’s a factor in every game. They’re invisible in half of them. They’re all 25. But Garland is the one to go? I don’t get it.

If a couple are going, he goes too. First. Because he's the most valuable. He's the harbinger. Trading him signals a rebuild.

I don't think there's a mandate to trade him. RFAs eat last. But if it happens, you can safely guess how BA feels about this 'core'.

 

[Jakey53]

He's a winger that is peaking in value and his cost isn't known. Garland is the most valuable trade chip that you can feasibly move. Depending on how other moves go, BA may have to play that card. Garland may also have some kind of crazy ask for what is essentially one season of production.

It's easy for fans to want to give him 45-50m over seven or eight years because we love him but BA may not be comfortable with that.

I'd be looking over my shoulder if I was Schmaltz as well. His contract is very backloaded and he hasn't exactly impressed or made his desire to stay clear with his play. Very good chance he is moved.

Dvorak is cheap and an effective two way center. He's the last tree to be cut down if it even gets that far.

I don't think Garland has peaked, he is 25 and could easily get better with better support. The trouble is we have no player who can protect him, so injuries will always be a concern.

 

[rt]

Imagine having the following assets still:
POJ
Bahl
Mercer (who NJ drafted with our pick)
Yan Kuznetsov (player drafted immediately after our forfeited 2020 2nd)
11th pick in the 2021 draft
.

This makes me want to throw up. John Chayka is easily the worst GM since Mike Milbury.

 

[rt]

If a couple are going, he goes too. First. Because he's the most valuable. He's the harbinger. Trading him signals a rebuild.

I don't think there's a mandate to trade him. RFAs eat last. But if it happens, you can safely guess how BA feels about this 'core'.

I hate the core. Our teams sucks. All of the players suck. Except Garland and Chychrun. Trade the rest. I don’t care. Clayton Keller sucks. I actively dislike him as a player. Get him the f*** out. But keep Garland. There has to be a reason to watch this tire fire. He’s one. One of two. There’s nothing else worth even cheering for.

 

[RemoAZ]

A good coach would have put Garland and Dvo together at least for a stretch to see if they produced. Dvo is the only top six center in the organization and has shown he can score. Why they wouldn't want to put him with another offensive player or two consistently is baffling to me especially considering how shitty our scoring has been. I wanted to see a Crouse Dvo Garland line so bad and the one time they announce it was going to happen, Garland gets hurt before the game. Typical Coyotes disappointment.

 

[XX]

I hate the core. Our teams sucks. All of the players suck. Except Garland and Chychrun. Trade the rest. I don’t care. Clayton Keller sucks. I actively dislike him as a player. Get him the f*** out. But keep Garland. There has to be a reason to watch the his tire fire. He’s one. One of two. There’s nothing else worth even cheering for.

I don't disagree. Trading the one guy that came up through your org, put in the time, and consistently competes sends a bad message. But if someone comes along and blows you away with an offer, it's the right time to cash in. There is no 'core'. Three 25+ year old dudes who can't even make the playoffs and are all probably 2nd liners at best isn't a core.

It's Chychrun vs the world. What happens if he gets tired of losing?

I think BA is going to rebuild in slow motion by cashing in on good deals and then getting the culture right. It was clearly trash under Tocchet. We haven't seen hockey that inconsistent and gutless in awhile. It starts with new leaders and new coaches. Garland might end up being a casualty of past mistakes.

 

[rt]

I don't disagree. Trading the one guy that came up through your org, put in the time, and consistently competes sends a bad message. But if someone comes along and blows you away with an offer, it's the right time to cash in. There is no 'core'. Three 25+ year old dudes who can't even make the playoffs and are all probably 2nd liners at best isn't a core.

It's Chychrun vs the world. What happens if he gets tired of losing?

I think BA is going to rebuild in slow motion by cashing in on good deals and then getting the culture right. It was clearly trash under Tocchet. We haven't seen hockey that inconsistent and gutless in awhile. It starts with new leaders and new coaches. Garland might end up being a casualty of past mistakes.

If there’s some kid drafted two years ago that BA and Plandowski were each sure, along with their ultra respected Blues and Lightning colleagues, would turn out to be a 1C or Top2D, then okay…I get it. Especially if the likes of Schmaltz and Dvorak couldn’t fetch that player.

 

[Sm00chy]

I hate the core. Our teams sucks. All of the players suck. Except Garland and Chychrun. Trade the rest. I don’t care. Clayton Keller sucks. I actively dislike him as a player. Get him the f*** out. But keep Garland. There has to be a reason to watch the his tire fire. He’s one. One of two. There’s nothing else worth even cheering for.

Bad day?

 

[rt]

Bad day?

If been saying I only care about two players this franchise has since February. Lol.

EDIT: had Dvorak there until he fell off a cliff.

 

[Hi De Hi]

Really got some vibes with Kirk. Don't understand the talk of letting other teams talk with him. Invite him to camp, if he gives another good impression (I am sure he will), give him a contract. Arizona will be overrun with British tourists if the world ever get normal again though, so there is that.

There will be a lot of UK fans of all teams making the effort to take in a Yotes game if Kirk is playing. Never been to Arizona in Winter, done it a few times in Summer.

 

[Mosby]

With the Sedins joining hockey ops in Vancouver, I'd imagine they're in favor of an OEL trade. Might push Benning to make a better offer.

 

[cobra427]

I don't think Garland has peaked, he is 25 and could easily get better with better support. The trouble is we have no player who can protect him, so injuries will always be a concern.

Maybe and maybe not. Garland is a small winger, they are easy to get and replace. I like him but others can pick up the slack. We shouldn't be signing another small winger to a long term contract at $6 mill+. If we can sign him for 4 years at $4 mill then fine but if he wants $6 mill at 5 years +, we should trade him.

If we want to ever be good, we need C's and top 4D, wingers don't get you there unless they are at a Patrick Kane level. And I like Garland a lot, he was our second best all around player last year. We might get good value for him now.

 

[hbk]

On Ray and Dregs, Dreger said he’d keep an on on LA for Garland. I guess they really want him. Maybe that’s who the Yotes were talking to about him last season?

I can’t see them giving up Turcotte or Byfield. 8th overall I guess is also likely a no-go. Rasmus Kupari and Tobias Bjornfot should be of interest to us. I’d honestly want both. I expect LA would scoff. But I’d want both.

If u watched worlds in canada you know Ray Ferrero absolutely loves Garland. Not shocked by his commentary.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

There comes a time when fans saltiness clouds better judgement. Some are well beyond poor judgement.

 

[Jakey53]

This makes me want to throw up. John Chayka is easily the worst GM since Mike Milbury.

I don't think you felt that way three years ago.