OT: COVID-19- March 17 2020 - No politics! Read post #1

[thewave]

Are you kidding me?! That doesn't do anything! You need...

PS. The Fed is already in the process of doing what I said.. DING DING

Federal Reserve Board announces establishment of a Primary Dealer Credit Facility (PDCF) to support the credit needs of households and businesses

Credit extended to primary dealers under this facility may be collateralized by a broad range of investment grade debt securities, including commercial paper and municipal bonds, and a broad range of equity securities.

 

[PromisedLand]

 

[Big Muddy]

A lot of countries around the world won't make a company of that size pay any tax, they will happily take the employment and economic benefit to the country, pretty much like the US is currently doing

When there is this much money on the table I'm more than willing to take the position that countries will do what's in their own self interest and happily cut each other's throats, especially developing super powers like India and China

Who cares what you or I think about America's economic situation? I'd restructure entitlements and implement a goods and services tax but best of luck getting that through as well

I'm working on what is and what's possible not what ought to be

So am I. How many countries have zero corporate tax rates (answer 10).

And for a multinational corp to relocate to one of those, they will factor where its located, size of population, education/skill of workforce, laws restricting foreign investment (the Arab nations) and so on.

Some of those 10 countries are small island nations (in the Caribbean), the rest are Arab nations. China has a 25% corporate tax rate, India has 17 - 25%.

Cutting back on entitlement programs takes a political will & (voter) support that so far no U.S. politician or party has been able to crack. And, if you start to limit entitlement programs, problems and their resulting expenses just reappear in another area. Medicare is an entitlement program as an example. However, its possible they will get to the stage where an additional tax will need to be levied. Or, maybe they will reduce the budget for another program. They may have to.

And, I care about America's economic situation because I live there (and elsewhere). So far, the solution for the social security program has been to raise the qualification (and/or full benefit) age.

Anyhow, back to the HF diet I was referring to.

 

[Kiwi]

what was wrong with that post? Seemed good to me

I couldn't be assed Walshy, I'm all virused out

 

[thewave]

Exactly! I have been saying this all along. Just stop importing it, peacefully isolate and let it burn out then reassess. What's so freaking hard about this?

 

[Kiwi]

So am I. How many countries have zero corporate tax rates (answer 10).

And for a multinational corp to relocate to one of those, they will factor where its located, size of population, education/skill of workforce, laws restricting foreign investment (the Arab nations) and so on.

Some of those 10 countries are small island nations (in the Caribbean), the rest are Arab nations. China has a 25% corporate tax rate, India has 17 - 25%.

Cutting back on entitlement programs takes a political will & (voter) support that so far no U.S. politician or party has been able to crack. And, if you start to limit entitlement programs, problems and their resulting expenses just reappear in another area. Medicare is an entitlement program as an example. However, its possible they will get to the stage where an additional tax will need to be levied. Or, maybe they will reduce the budget for another program. They may have to.

And, I care about America's economic situation because I live there (and elsewhere). So far, the solution for the social security program has been to raise the qualification (and/or full benefit) age.

Anyhow, back to the HF diet I was referring to.

The Americans have corporate tax rates to, remind me how much tax Amazon is paying again? Then why other countries wouldn't give a company of that size a carve out as well?

Those entitlements are bankrupting the country and there isn't the political will to reform them, just like the political will isn't there to reform the tax system company's like Amazon are jobbing

I don't, I just like to think I have an idea about political realities and the American government likes to spend like a drunken sailor and rack up debt, I can't see that changing without a debt crisis

 

[member 300185]

Well, close call. My wife and I went to Europe and we left Nova Scotia on Christmas Day. We took the QM2 cruise to Southampton England. Then we took a ferry to mainland Europe and hit 14 countries. As we are travelling we are trying to stay ahead of the virus the whole time. We finally made it to Venice on February 15. We went on a gondola ride February 16 and left on the 17th towards Pisa Italy. It was the very next day after we left that the virus had spread out and we had just left the day before. We had a rental car and stayed in Airbnb's the whole time.

So we drive from Pisa to Porta Santo Stefano and then we went to Civiti and then we went to Brindisi. I had a cabin booked on the Grimaldi to go to Greece. But we turned on BBC at the hotel and it tells us that Italy is closing its borders. We immediately left the hotel and drove 14 hours straight to Menton France. Once we got to France we relaxed a little as only 50 cases were there and that was February 22. Then we went to Marseille, Bordeaux and Bessé-sur-Braye . Then back on a ferry back to London where we could speak English. We stayed at and Airbnb Yacht for a week as to quarantine ourselves at the Marina. Then we flew home here on March 11 only to go into another Quarantine in NS. Its a self Quarantine but better safe than sorry.

I thought you'd like to hear about our vacation/ordeal.

 

[thewave]

So am I. How many countries have zero corporate tax rates (answer 10).

And for a multinational corp to relocate to one of those, they will factor where its located, size of population, education/skill of workforce, laws restricting foreign investment (the Arab nations) and so on.

Some of those 10 countries are small island nations (in the Caribbean), the rest are Arab nations. China has a 25% corporate tax rate, India has 17 - 25%.

Cutting back on entitlement programs takes a political will & (voter) support that so far no U.S. politician or party has been able to crack. And, if you start to limit entitlement programs, problems and their resulting expenses just reappear in another area. Medicare is an entitlement program as an example. However, its possible they will get to the stage where an additional tax will need to be levied. Or, maybe they will reduce the budget for another program. They may have to.

And, I care about America's economic situation because I live there (and elsewhere). So far, the solution for the social security program has been to raise the qualification (and/or full benefit) age.

Anyhow, back to the HF diet I was referring to.

The GTA in general (majority in all probability) wants funds for every single kind of program under the sun. The problem is those people don't have a clue what running a deficit even means. What was it? $200 Billion of debt in Ontario over the past 18 years or whatever it is. That's nuts. California had about 100B and have twice our population and they were talking about it being a crisis. Here, WE WANT RAISES! MORE PROGRAMS! MORE MORE MORE. Kinda crazy as adults you have to tell them as adults you need to be fiscally responsible.

 

[Big Muddy]

Are you kidding me?! That doesn't do anything! You need...

PS. The Fed is already in the process of doing what I said.. DING DING

Federal Reserve Board announces establishment of a Primary Dealer Credit Facility (PDCF) to support the credit needs of households and businesses

Credit extended to primary dealers under this facility may be collateralized by a broad range of investment grade debt securities, including commercial paper and municipal bonds, and a broad range of equity securities.

I wonder if people know what commercial paper is. Its the investments that investment banks invest in to fund things like money markets, along with other investment vehicles like different corporate/muni bonds. Treasury has backstopped the Fed so they Fed can buy (back) up this kind of debt. Its also a lending source for short term loans that corporations use revolving lines of credit to fund payroll. It is also used to fund car loans and mortgages. There's still problems with this though as the cost will be the three-month overnight index swap rate plus 200 points.

 

[Leafs1991]

I've lived through 3 recessions, I've also lived through unemployment because of a recession, as a result not able to put food on the table. I can tell you not having money for food is a devastating experience. For me the trade off of one one hundredth of a percentage point (less than 500 people) vs millions unemployed, the calculus does not make sense to me.

I get there is a fear it will over load the system much like Italy, S. Korea, China but at the end of the day, wash your freaking hands, don't touch your face, keep a 6ft buffer between you and other people and you are 99.9% guaranteed this will not affect you. BOOM, I just save the worlds economy.

Like the flu, COVID-19 is spread primarily via respiratory droplets—little blobs of liquid released as someone coughs, sneezes, or talks. Viruses contained in these droplets can infect other people via the eyes, nose, or mouth—either when they land directly on somebody’s face or when they’re transferred there by people touching their face with contaminated hands.

Because respiratory droplets are too heavy to remain suspended in the air, direct person-to-person transmission normally only happens when people are in close contact—within about six feet of each other.

How COVID-19 Is Spread​

Except it isn't that easy, everyone has activties/jobs everyday that involves being close to a person. What we are doing is the best option and in the end should last, hopefully, for only 2 to 3 weeks, 4 at most.

Imagine seeing this spread in major cities like NY, Toronto, Chicago, Dallas etc and how many could die cause of this, guaranteed the numbers would be the same as the potential recession you keep talking about.

 

[thewave]

I wonder if people know what commercial paper is. Its the investments that investment banks invest in to fund things like money markets, along with other investment vehicles like different corporate/muni bonds. Treasury has backstopped the Fed so they Fed can buy up this kind (back) of debt. Its also a lending source for short term loans that corporations use revolving lines of credit to fund payroll. It is also used to fund car loans and mortgages. There's still problems with this though as the cost will be the three-month overnight index swap rate plus 200 points.

Just wait... The Nationalization of...

Boeing - GM - Chrysler - Tesla and the list will go on and on. The supply chain is broken, manufacturing is just about to grind to a halt as the shipments are 3 weeks behind generally but that doesn't include inventory on hand. National Emergency is declared and the right of GOV is to take over all domestic assets including personally held GOLD, SILVER, LAND etc for National Security. all in Law, all enforced and all active as of NOW. If you think this 2008 or 2000 you would be wrong, this is 1929 and beyond.

This is the kind of situation that could spiral into picking a fight with Iran, SA, Iraq just to disrupt the movement of oil to get the prices back up etc.

 

[DopeyFish]

The GTA in general (majority in all probability) wants funds for every single kind of program under the sun. The problem is those people don't have a clue what running a deficit even means. What was it? $200 Billion of debt in Ontario over the past 18 years or whatever it is. That's nuts. California had about 100B and have twice our population and they were talking about it being a crisis. Here, WE WANT RAISES! MORE PROGRAMS! MORE MORE MORE. Kinda crazy as adults you have to tell them as adults you need to be fiscally responsible.

even though it's completely unrelated to the topic at hand... you don't quite understand the economics here.

if toronto were to split from ontario and assume all the debt, toronto would be running a surplus and pay off the debt in no time. the new province of ontario would collapse.

there is far less tax dollars being spent in the city than the amount being taxed. toronto is not and has not been a problem in the economics of ontario at any point of it's existence.

 

[DopeyFish]

 

[thewave]

even though it's completely unrelated to the topic at hand... you don't quite understand the economics here.

if toronto were to split from ontario and assume all the debt, toronto would be running a surplus and pay off the debt in no time. the new province of ontario would collapse.

there is far less tax dollars being spent in the city than the amount being taxed. toronto is not and has not been a problem in the economics of ontario at any point of it's existence.

Ultimately though you have to agree, you can't keep your home if you spend more than you make on programs galore. Keep in mind Covid19 is going to ROCK ontario and Canada as well financially.

Canada's National Debt Clock : The Canadian Taxpayers Federation

Canada's National Debt Clock : The Canadian Taxpayers Federation

 

[thewave]

Every time I hear symptoms not serious I feel better! I hope they keep posting not serious symptoms displayed messages all day every day. It's crazy right now!

 

[DopeyFish]

Ultimately though you have to agree, you can't keep your home if you spend more than you make on programs galore. Keep in mind Covid19 is going to ROCK ontario and Canada as well financially.

Canada's National Debt Clock : The Canadian Taxpayers Federation

Canada's National Debt Clock : The Canadian Taxpayers Federation

you also can't look at debt as an absolute number

debt: GDP is the issue

inflation / gdp growth push debt down

i can't go into detail because it would violate the thread rules further. this is my last post about this, stop posting about it, too.

 

[thewave]

you also can't look at debt as an absolute number

debt: GDP is the issue

inflation / gdp growth push debt down

i can't go into detail because it would violate the thread rules further. this is my last post about this, stop posting about it, too.

I understand that but for times like this, it's better to have less debt. It offers more runway when a crisis comes along. I agree, the point is it's still better to get it down to around Germany levels... Last post about this but it covers Covid19 and economic crisis potential from Covid, cross that bridge when we get there.

"Canada’s national debt is currently at 83.81% of its GDP. Canada’s national debt currently sits at about $1.2 trillion CAD ($925 billion USD). Canada experienced a gradual decrease in debt after the 1990s until 2010 when the debt began increasing again.

Germany’s debt ratio is currently at 59.81% of its GDP. Germany’s total debt is at approximately 2.291 trillion € ($2.527 trillion USD). Germany is Europe’s largest economy." -WPR

 

[Pookie]

Well, close call. My wife and I went to Europe and we left Nova Scotia on Christmas Day. We took the QM2 cruise to Southampton England. Then we took a ferry to mainland Europe and hit 14 countries. As we are travelling we are trying to stay ahead of the virus the whole time. We finally made it to Venice on February 15. We went on a gondola ride February 16 and left on the 17th towards Pisa Italy. It was the very next day after we left that the virus had spread out and we had just left the day before. We had a rental car and stayed in Airbnb's the whole time.

So we drive from Pisa to Porta Santo Stefano and then we went to Civiti and then we went to Brindisi. I had a cabin booked on the Grimaldi to go to Greece. But we turned on BBC at the hotel and it tells us that Italy is closing its borders. We immediately left the hotel and drove 14 hours straight to Menton France. Once we got to France we relaxed a little as only 50 cases were there and that was February 22. Then we went to Marseille, Bordeaux and Bessé-sur-Braye . Then back on a ferry back to London where we could speak English. We stayed at and Airbnb Yacht for a week as to quarantine ourselves at the Marina. Then we flew home here on March 11 only to go into another Quarantine in NS. Its a self Quarantine but better safe than sorry.

I thought you'd like to hear about our vacation/ordeal.

Glad to have you back

 

[thewave]

This is ridiculous. Are these kids for real? I swear if there is another US war they may as well open up the draft again and send these dolts! Wasted. I hope Canadian's aren't being that stupid!

 

[Big Muddy]

The Americans have corporate tax rates to, remind me how much tax Amazon is paying again? Then why other countries wouldn't give a company of that size a carve out as well?

Those entitlements are bankrupting the country and there isn't the political will to reform them, just like the political will isn't there to reform the tax system company's like Amazon are jobbing

I don't, I just like to think I have an idea about political realities and the American government likes to spend like a drunken sailor and rack up debt, I can't see that changing without a debt crisis

As I said, multinationals don't go countries that have a zero corporate tax rate for all of the reasons I listed in my previous post. They have gone to countries like Ireland that has a 12% corporate tax rate. If the minimum tax rate was 10% in the U.S., it would still be lower than the countries like Ireland that have a population, etc. that makes it feasible to relocate to.

Economic unions are already floating proposals to stop corporations (international tax programs) from taking advantage of not paying taxes by locating to low tax jurisdictions. And it will be a majority rule situation there as well.

Again, its one idea of many.

The U.S. federal government tolerates companies like Amazon because they still pay state and local taxes. Again, there's lot of innovative ideas that could be used to get some money into the federal coffers even in the areas of taxation. I'm guessing a lot of people didn't know that Amazon has paid any federal taxes for 2 years, and that there average has been 10% over the last 10 years.

I found it interesting that Google was building a website as a private corporation response to the pandemic in the U.S. Maybe corporations make in kind contributions in areas that they are good at, or conversely, if they don't, they pay the minimum tax (P3s - public/private partnerships). The politicians will want to find the path of least resistance and tax increases that effect the voters have been the last thing they wanted to do. Things that effect a small number of corporations will probably receive more support than programs that effect every voter. They may have to find more innovative approaches. Who knows. The world was thought to be flat at one time, blood letting was thought to be a sound medical practice, women couldn't vote, man would never walk on the moon, PCs would never gain traction over mainframe computers, etc. I just like to think of the future & innovations in general. Time for me to shut down. Good conversation though.

 

[DopeyFish]

This is ridiculous. Are these kids for real? I swear if there is another US war they may as well open up the draft again and send these dolts! Wasted. I hope Canadian's aren't being that stupid!

after seeing Queens University student interview for st. patricks day...

kids are stupid everywhere

i think the problem is the whole "if you're young, you'll be ok" went to their head

 

[yubbers]

The Americans have corporate tax rates to, remind me how much tax Amazon is paying again? Then why other countries wouldn't give a company of that size a carve out as well?

Those entitlements are bankrupting the country and there isn't the political will to reform them, just like the political will isn't there to reform the tax system company's like Amazon are jobbing

I don't, I just like to think I have an idea about political realities and the American government likes to spend like a drunken sailor and rack up debt, I can't see that changing without a debt crisis

They pay zero federal tax. They still pay local and state taxes to operate. Do you think Amazons leverage is any less with other countries? The US offers the deal they have to be competitive. Would you prefer them setting up shop elsewhere?

 

[stickty111]

 

[yubbers]

This is ridiculous. Are these kids for real? I swear if there is another US war they may as well open up the draft again and send these dolts! Wasted. I hope Canadian's aren't being that stupid!

i was at the beach today i saw 2 ppl all day though

 

[Superstar]

after seeing Queens University student interview for st. patricks day...

kids are stupid everywhere

i think the problem is the whole "if you're young, you'll be ok" went to their head

They might be young, and they might be okay, but that would make them carriers of the virus and spreading it to the vulnerable parts of the population...that is the real problem...I guess selfishness is blind.