OT: COVID-19- March 17 2020 - No politics! Read post #1

[GQS]

The world is ending. Shut everything down before its too late!! Meanwhile in Japan:

 

[Merrrlin]

read this thread and be afraid. keep safe... but do realize it's a lot worse than most people realize.

Great read!

 

[Jojalu]

That's a big part of the helicopter money for sure. Central banks are the lender of last resort so I am sure they don't want to see the entire banking cartel, err, empire collapse in to utter chaos. They will do anything to bring order and if need wage war on a foe. This is all big stakes involving people that see citizens as collateral damage. The US Fed will print and disperse money to all strategic allies collapsing systems and likely buy up foes or competition, very fast, very quickly. The merger of State and Corporation, Empire.

The US may very well now start to bail out the rest of the Western world, buying up the companies and banks with simple digital entries on $400.00 LCD panels. Is this the formation of a New World Order with Trump taking emergency powers and being it's leader?

Get your popcorn. Most of you will be home to watch it all play out, live, on CNN.

Lol. Cartel

 

[Big Muddy]

The models that have been developed by WHO, etc. estimate that between 40 - 70% of the population will contract COVID-19. Of that number, 20% will have serious health impacts, or will be at risk.

The population of the U.S. is 330 million. 20% of the low end of that estimate (40%) is 26 million. 20% of the high end of the modeling estimate is 46 million. There are 46,500 ICU beds in the U.S. (I've also seen 51,000 from other sources).

Pretty easy to see why health officials are so concerned. I'm not sure the killing a moth with a flame thrower is a great analogy.

 

[Bluelines]

Have you seen what happened to the other countries in the world?

Look, I'm quite young in my late twenties but I'm also a competitive athlete, and if this stuff can damage your lungs then i don't want it. So even though I've lost my job, my volunteering activities and everything else I do to help potentially prevent the spread of this virus then I'm all for it. Start thinking about your own health and others before your wallet.

I've lived through 3 recessions, I've also lived through unemployment because of a recession, as a result not able to put food on the table. I can tell you not having money for food is a devastating experience. For me the trade off of one one hundredth of a percentage point (less than 500 people) vs millions unemployed, the calculus does not make sense to me.

I get there is a fear it will over load the system much like Italy, S. Korea, China but at the end of the day, wash your freaking hands, don't touch your face, keep a 6ft buffer between you and other people and you are 99.9% guaranteed this will not affect you. BOOM, I just save the worlds economy.

Like the flu, COVID-19 is spread primarily via respiratory droplets—little blobs of liquid released as someone coughs, sneezes, or talks. Viruses contained in these droplets can infect other people via the eyes, nose, or mouth—either when they land directly on somebody’s face or when they’re transferred there by people touching their face with contaminated hands.

Because respiratory droplets are too heavy to remain suspended in the air, direct person-to-person transmission normally only happens when people are in close contact—within about six feet of each other.

How COVID-19 Is Spread​

 

[thewave]

Lol. Cartel

Haha well they may as well be. All the big players on each others boards and there is no democratic process about it, it's a family business so call it whatever you like. We aren't even allowed to know who runs the Bank of Canada (Privately owned)

 

[Jojalu]

All fair points, say we do nothing , worst case scenario is we have a year of a really bad virus, we develop a vaccine by the winter and bob is your uncle. Orrrrr we can way overreact, drive the economy into the ground, start a recession, see millions of people lose their jobs and experience all the fun stuff like high debt,suicide, substance abuse, crime spikes that are associated with recessions and experience the impact of overreacting for years.

Yes I have people in the high risk, they are also high risk for the seasonal Flu too but you don't see our country mitigate the Flu in the same way. Killing a moth with a flame thrower is an overreaction. I'm not saying DONT respond at all, I'm saying have a proportionate response or maybe this is a proportionate response and our governments are not telling us all the facts.

Do you really believe any government wanted to take these measures?

We didn't with SARS or H1N1 or anything ever really.

As to your point of the government not telling us everything. Perhaps. This seems bad enough as is though.

Is Italy over reacting?

Did China?

The US?

I find it difficult to fathom they all want to tank their economy.

 

[Kiwi]

The 10% tax rate is lower than any industrialized nation in the world. That's why I picked it. Ireland is 12% as an example which is a cogent, deliberate selection if you follow this kind of thing. The only places that are slightly lower are 3rd world countries, or small islands, which don't have a large enough work force, or an educated enough work force to be a feasible alternative. Countries, world organizations & economic unions will figure this out eventually. Its in their collective best interests.

Anyhow, that was an example (& other ideas that came to mind quickly were suggested). There's lot of different ideas, and things can never be done, until they are done. The current regime is even embracing ideas (Google building a website) some things (forebearers) such as this. Its a start. And, the U.S. just implemented a new tax code. It was done in less than a year.

Anyhow, not going to spend more time on this. You can never convince anyone of anything anyhow when minds are already made up. That's one of the many reasons I often put myself on a HF diet which I should get back to again.

A lot of countries around the world won't make a company of that size pay any tax, they will happily take the employment and economic benefit to the country, pretty much like the US is currently doing

When there is this much money on the table I'm more than willing to take the position that countries will do what's in their own self interest and happily cut each other's throats, especially developing super powers like India and China

I'd restructure entitlements and implement a goods and services tax but best of luck getting that through as well, it's not realistic in the current political and economic climate

You make it sound like I'm the one who needs convincing? Since tax collection began people and businesses have been looking for ways to avoid it, I'm just pointing out to you obvious ways of avoiding it, i don't think it's realistic in the current political or economic climste either but you do so cool, no skin off my nose

 

[Jojalu]

Haha well they may as well be. All the big players on each others boards and there is no democratic process about it, it's a family business so call it whatever you like. We aren't even allowed to know who runs the Bank of Canada (Private member board)

I fully agree. I just loved how you snuck it in while talking about a serious topic.

I hate the Federal Reserve System, but that might be for a different thread

 

[Bluelines]

It’s not that hard. It increases hospitalizations and the hospitals will be over capacity.

You realize that part of the reason the infection rate is low is because of these measures right?

It was low in Canada even before these measures, of course the measures have had some effect but is the effect to our country 3 months, 6 months, 9 months down the road worth it?

I personally feel the response is overkill.

If the response is to reduce the mortality rate, prevent deaths. We have offered 50 billion to the banks to mitigate our response. We have had 5 deaths in Canada due to this virus. We have over 230,000 deaths each year due to smoking and our response is ... ?

Again I'm not saying we should not have a reasonable proportionate response, I do not think this response is reasonable.

 

[Bluelines]

Do you really believe any government wanted to take these measures?

We didn't with SARS or H1N1 or anything ever really.

As to your point of the government not telling us everything. Perhaps. This seems bad enough as is though.

Is Italy over reacting?

Did China?

The US?

I find it difficult to fathom they all want to tank their economy.

Italy has a very old population, I'm not sure you can compare countries responses to other countries. Their response should have been more aggressive because of their older population

 

[theaub]

An "overreaction" where nothing serious happens is by far the optimal result here.

 

[Jojalu]

Italy has a very old population, I'm not sure you can compare countries responses to other countries. Their response should have been more aggressive because of their older population

Very true.

However, Canada does have a high elderly rsge and is it worth it to take the risk?

 

[ULF_55]

All fair points, say we do nothing , worst case scenario is we have a year of a really bad virus, we develop a vaccine by the winter and bob is your uncle. Orrrrr we can way overreact, drive the economy into the ground, start a recession, see millions of people lose their jobs and experience all the fun stuff like high debt,suicide, substance abuse, crime spikes that are associated with recessions and experience the impact of overreacting for years.

Yes I have people in the high risk, they are also high risk for the seasonal Flu too but you don't see our country mitigate the Flu in the same way. Killing a moth with a flame thrower is an overreaction. I'm not saying DONT respond at all, I'm saying have a proportionate response or maybe this is a proportionate response and our governments are not telling us all the facts.

You can just stand on your own and disregard those around you.

whatever is done for the greater good doesn't mean you have to fall in line with it.

 

[PromisedLand]

All fair points, say we do nothing , worst case scenario is we have a year of a really bad virus, we develop a vaccine by the winter and bob is your uncle. Orrrrr we can way overreact, drive the economy into the ground, start a recession, see millions of people lose their jobs and experience all the fun stuff like high debt,suicide, substance abuse, crime spikes that are associated with recessions and experience the impact of overreacting for years.

Yes I have people in the high risk, they are also high risk for the seasonal Flu too but you don't see our country mitigate the Flu in the same way. Killing a moth with a flame thrower is an overreaction. I'm not saying DONT respond at all, I'm saying have a proportionate response or maybe this is a proportionate response and our governments are not telling us all the facts.

2008-2009 was the worst recession since the Great Depression of the 1930s; and the global economies (including Canada's economy) did alright to make a come back.

In this modernized coordinated globalized world the "troughs" of the business cycles don't remain there for too long.

We have global bodies to help out like IMF; World Bank etc... which were not part of the recessions of the old.

IMF already has the recommendations
Policy Steps to Address the Corona Crisis


If majority of working population is gong to get sick and at the same time (because COVID is fast spreading) how productive is that population going to be?

If Canada was the only country taking these actions while nobody else was then I may see your point even if I dont agree; but every major G7/G20 country is going through this its not like any other country is going to get a competitive advantage over Canada.

I think the "overraction" part is more on the economics based argument rather than health based arguments

 

[thewave]

Italy has a very old population, I'm not sure you can compare countries responses to other countries. Their response should have been more aggressive because of their older population

The North is relatively wealthy, they eat olives and drink wine, everyone up there lives to 99.

 

[Peasy]

US and Canada preparing to issue joint statement suspending non-essential travel between the two countries

 

[kesleaf]

That's a big part of the helicopter money for sure. Central banks are the lender of last resort so I am sure they don't want to see the entire banking cartel, err, empire collapse in to utter chaos. They will do anything to bring order and if need wage war on a foe. This is all big stakes involving people that see citizens as collateral damage. The US Fed will print and disperse money to all strategic allies collapsing systems and likely buy up foes or competition, very fast, very quickly. The merger of State and Corporation, Empire.

The US may very well now start to bail out the rest of the Western world, buying up the companies and banks with simple digital entries on $400.00 LCD panels. Is this the formation of a New World Order with Trump taking emergency powers and being it's leader?

Get your popcorn. Most of you will be home to watch it all play out, live, on CNN.

 

[ULF_55]

The North is relatively wealthy, they eat olives and drink wine, everyone up there lives to 99.

I have a bit of an issue with that.

olives go with martinis which doesn't go well with red wine.

I suppose red wine for lunch olives and martinis for dinner.

 

[Superstar]

Let me clarify things for you. Out of 35 million or so Canadians evidence suggests that very few, relatively, will catch the virus and very few will have to be hospitalized. The biggest inconvenience for the vast majority will financial and social. But by the end of April the stock markets will have recovered somewhat and restaurants, stores and schools will be open again. Things will be tough but in relative terms not that bad compared to other events in history. And no I don't take comfort in anyone's suffering and its dam silly for you to insinuate that. All I am doing is trying to suggest people gain some perspective on things. Things will get better and they don't have to fear the future.

Easy to say things will get better, but without putting in drastic measures to reduce the spread of this virus, things will get alot worse - meaning many more deaths and many more people getting sick - before they get better.

 

[DopeyFish]

US and Canada preparing to issue joint statement suspending non-essential travel between the two countries

yup looks like the whole NAFTA thing did slow it down a bit

good on trudeau

 

[Walshy7]

Lol. Cartel

lol that whole post. I’ve found the guy hoarding all the tin foil

 

[Superstar]

It was low in Canada even before these measures, of course the measures have had some effect but is the effect to our country 3 months, 6 months, 9 months down the road worth it?

I personally feel the response is overkill.

If the response is to reduce the mortality rate, prevent deaths. We have offered 50 billion to the banks to mitigate our response. We have had 5 deaths in Canada due to this virus. We have over 230,000 deaths each year due to smoking and our response is ... ?

Again I'm not saying we should not have a reasonable proportionate response, I do not think this response is reasonable.

I think there are 2 scenarios:

1. Self-induced drastic measures to limit virus spread that will tank the economy, but saving many lives.
2. Let the virus spread, killing alot more people and making alot more people sick...and the economy tanks anyways.

I opt for option 1.

 

[Kiwi]

Woops

 

[Walshy7]

Woops

what was wrong with that post? Seemed good to me