OT: COVID-19- March 17 2020 - No politics! Read post #1

[PromisedLand]

I'm in New Zealand and we do a ton of trade with them to, if they go down were going with them

Interesting, I would have thought that NZ's largest trading partner would be Australia. I learn something new everyday

 

[Ms Maggie]

If the mortality rate isn't as bad as what the media/gov say, and this turns out to be an overreaction to a lot of mixed messaging and media scare... couple that with loss of more rights and the real possibility of forced vaccinations etc. I think there are going to be a lot of very angry people in "fly-over country".

Well better an over-reaction than an under-reaction when it comes to the health of citizens.

 

[Peasy]

They aren't Canada

They have a population of 330 million so it's Canada by a magnitude of 10 with multiple heavily populated cities and states which you guys can't even imagine logistically

It goes Local-state-federal for a reason, the population is just to large for one government to deal with

Yes I know this. But there have been several examples that show how quickly this virus spreads. All I'm saying is that it is unfortunate that more was not done sooner. But I guess that applies to the majority of countries in the world.

Gotta give Ford some respect for closing all bars and restaurants as well as banning gatherings of over 50 people on St. Patrick's day.

In Waterloo there likely would have still been hundreds if not thousands at the Ezra street party today if it were not for that announcement.

 

[PromisedLand]

So cbc saying they'll announce 25 billion in aid tomorrow

with 37.59 million people in Canada that works out to be about $665 per person. If we assume a family of 4 that works out to be 665*4= 2660 per family.

Assuming this stupid caronavirus is not an issue a month from now; i think 2660 per family is decent for a month.

what do you guys think?

P.S. does this 25 billion also include businesses? or is it solely for households

 

[PromisedLand]

SARS killed 774 people from 2002 to 2004
COVID-19 has killed over 800 people today

Coronavirus Update (Live): 198,164 Cases and 7,965 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

Holy crap.

Jesus that is scary man

 

[DueDiligence]

Nobody knows what will happen, just wanted to make that point.

It was estimated that 75 million people died in World War 2. That's my point!

 

[PromisedLand]

Thankfully I live in Fort Mcmurray Alberta where as of today we have a grand total of 3 cases so Fort Mcmurray life continues as normal for now

I should say the North region has 3 cases we might not have any

Fort Mac has suffered enough already IMO with the wildfires and layoffs; more over there is just gonna be cruel by nature

 

[Fogelhund]

At the very least, if there is a prolonged shutdown, I expect the Canadian Government to enforce a debt moratorium unless they want another crisis on their hands. Remember, if the Government initiates a mandate that shuts down all businesses (even though it's a necessary measure), people should not be held responsible for losing their source of income in the interim. To expect people to continue to afford paying commercial leases/mortgages, residential mortgages, rent, utilities, bank loans, etc. is completely unreasonable.

Oh, I fully agree that we need to do something, I just disagree that it's simplistic.

 

[Kiwi]

Interesting, I would have thought that NZ's largest trading partner would be Australia. I learn something new everyday

We do a ton of trade with them and China to

Good times

 

[Burnie97]

with 37.59 million people in Canada that works out to be about $665 per person. If we assume a family of 4 that works out to be 665*4= 2660 per family.

Assuming this stupid caronavirus is not an issue a month from now; i think 2660 per family is decent for a month.

what do you guys think?

P.S. does this 25 billion also include businesses? or is it solely for households

No idea where that will be distributed to yet... find out more tomorrow... but I imagine a lot goes to small business etc... could be wrong.

Its definitely going to be divided up in a number of ways though. So what a family may get will vary quite a bit I'm guessing.

 

[DopeyFish]

Holy crap.

Jesus that is scary man

the sad part is... this is before the real trouble begins in most parts of europe and the USA

it's going to get really really reallyyyyyyy bad

 

[Kiwi]

Yes I know this. But there have been several examples that show how quickly this virus spreads. All I'm saying is that it is unfortunate that more was not done sooner. But I guess that applies to the majority of countries in the world.

Gotta give Ford some respect for closing all bars and restaurants as well as banning gatherings of over 50 people on St. Patrick's day.

In Waterloo there likely would have still been hundreds if not thousands at the Ezra street party today if it were not for that announcement.

I'm definitely not going to disagree with you that the American Government couldn't have been significantly better and more proactive but once you start looking at logistics over that many people

Yikes

Shutting down events or gatherings over a certain number of people really should be a state or local government call in conjunction with the CDC with the Feds offering support where needed because a lot of the stuff we're talking about needs some sort of legislation beforehand and that takes time

 

[Leafs1991]

They aren't taxing their way out of that hole, they have to restructure entitlements, slow down their rates of spending and up their tax intake

Economies are global, the uber wealthy aren't just going to sit on their asses when tax rates take a massive jump, plenty of other countries will be more than happy to take that tax base off the American government

I'd go entitlements, some sort of VAT or GST broad base type tax and then I'd hard cap government spending, in that order, I think it would slow the economy down but its better than the alternative



It's a highly communicable virus and they have started to ramp up testing so they were always going to get a spike in confirmed cases as that came on line

This isn't America man.... this is a lot of people living in a very small area that acts as a global hub

The anti American sentement is starting to get tedious

I agree. No reason to hate on the Americans. China, Britai, Italy all had the same issues with lots of people in a small, geographical area. The major cities in North America are going to get hit the worst which is why the shutdowns are happening, let's just hope it wasn't too late.

Can't believe the person you replied to tried to somehow blame Americans for this. My gosh.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Fort Mac has suffered enough already IMO with the wildfires and layoffs; more over there is just gonna be cruel by nature

I remember those fires, I have never seen anything like that, amazingly only 2 people died, it sucked for those 2 families but honestly I thought it was going to be A LOT wotse

 

[lottster14]

the sad part is... this is before the real trouble begins in most parts of europe and the USA

it's going to get really really reallyyyyyyy bad

Maybe it's early stages of the Rapture/Armageddon?

 

[Big Muddy]

They aren't taxing their way out of that hole, they have to restructure entitlements, slow down their rates of spending and up their tax intake

Economies are global, the uber wealthy aren't just going to sit on their asses when tax rates take a massive jump, plenty of other countries will be more than happy to take that tax base off the American government

I'd go entitlements, some sort of VAT or GST broad base type tax and then I'd hard cap government spending, in that order, I think it would slow the economy down but its better than the alternative

I didn't say anything about making a massive tax increase.

Amazon pays no (federal) taxes because of all the deductions that are allowed under the tax code. They get massive write-offs from things like R&D, offering employees stock options, etc. High tech companies aren't going to stop the aforementioned programs because of tax laws. They do R&D & those kind of things because there are vital just to stay in business long term.

A flat or minimum tax rate (that could be below even current tax levels) is an idea that's been around for quite some time. As an example, allow the deductions, or have them pay a minimum tax rate, whichever is the higher. As an example, a minimum tax rate of 10% is lower than what a corporation pays in any industrialized country. I'm not even suggesting that is the solution. Maybe they get tax deductions if they build a data center used for a public service, or a hospital. There's a lot of different ideas. But, the question is under what tax structure could society be better off while still enticing the company to remain in place?

 

[PromisedLand]

the sad part is... this is before the real trouble begins in most parts of europe and the USA

it's going to get really really reallyyyyyyy bad

Yup it is scary and sad.

 

[PromisedLand]

For folks talking Economy

below is what IMF is suggesting of course a lot of bureaucratic mumbo jumbo but still something to think about

Policy Action for a Healthy Global Economy

 

[Gary Nylund]

It was estimated that 75 million people died in World War 2. That's my point!

Saying "for the vast majority life will be back to "normal" within a month or so" like you did didn't help to make that point. You have no way of knowing that that's true, and that was my point.

Things are pretty messy right now and I doubt it's much comfort to people suffering today that World War 2 was worse. But if you find comfort in that then hey, nothing wrong with that.

Cheers!

 

[ULF_55]

will there really be change?

water, energy, resources, food.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I remember those fires, I have never seen anything like that, amazingly only 2 people died, it sucked for those 2 families but honestly I thought it was going to be A LOT wotse

Most people have no idea it was over a year later before that fire was out.

 

[Al14]

If netflix and amazon prime made their streaming free for everyone for the next 2 months; am sure most of the folks would netflix and chill easily

If Charmin and Cashmere provided their toilet paper for free, we'd all sit on the crapper and read magazines!

 

[DopeyFish]

Banks offering payment deferral for mortgages on a case by case basis

Canada's Six Biggest Banks Take Decisive Action to Help Customers Impacted by COVID-19

 

[Jojalu]

Saying "for the vast majority life will be back to "normal" within a month or so" like you did didn't help to make that point. You have no way of knowing that that's true, and that was my point.

Things are pretty messy right now and I doubt it's much comfort to people suffering today that World War 2 was worse. But if you find comfort in that then hey, nothing wrong with that.

Cheers!

Great point.

Just because something was worse does not make this less horrible.

 

[Bluelines]

433 confirmed cases as of 2 hours ago ... 37,000,000 million people in Canada. about 0.00117% of the population has contracted this virus, our societal response is to bring society to a screeching halt, crash the economy, start a recession, give $50B to the banks .. yep sounds like an appropriate proportionate response.

I get that if you have it, it can be a HORRIBLE experience. I get that you can get pneumonia as a result. What I don't get is the over the top response, why we don't see more leaders step up and say , Hey, yes it's bad, wash your hands, stay away from seniors and don't travel, its business as usual.

Maybe I just don't have all the info that justifies this insane reaction. It has affected about one one hundredth of our population. I think we need to get out of the Orsen Wells War of the Worlds radio panic mode and take our rationale self back.