OT: COVID-19- March 17 2020 - No politics! Read post #1

[PromisedLand]

we do tons here in NA. Of course we can always be better. But we're very proactive.

China and India are the biggest problems. And it's not even close. We could go live in caves and the world would still have most of its pollution with those 2

Combined they have approx 3 billion people there so ......

If we had that kind of population in Canada with even half of them driving every freakin day we would rack up the carbon points

 

[JT AM da real deal]

that is why I said global or at least NATO partners partnership. We are in it together.

And only to supply needs not wants.

food prices have already increased in Canada recently; I don’t think paying 20 bucks for just one loaf of bread and one bag of milk is ideal

special circumstances call for special innovative ways of delivery

Sitting on our assess not doing anything about it is not going to accomplish anything

I agree sitting on our a*&ess doing nothing does not get you anywhere. But think it through a little farther here. If we commadere da airlines then costs of shipping will triple but we will get stuff 3 weeks faster. The reason we don't ship air freight today is because costs are 3 times freight by sea. So this by its very nature will triple food prices. I can't see anyone wanting that including you and me. It defeats purpose of plan.

Now using military fleet engineered to be crafty and move with power in tighter spaces may be a challenge too. First of all load capacity would be a half to a third of a sea tanker because of design from what I see online. So there would be double to triple the trips required. And who da hell knows what happens at sea in turbulent ocean waters with lighter more mobile vessels. I think it could be figured out but imagine a sinking at sea where load weight and sea waves caused a fatal disaster. Bottom line is more gas consumed more man hours of military at sea.

And lastly do they have enough vessels and people. The navy has 12 frigates and 8,500 sailors. I am no expert but it does not seem like near enough vessels or people although I could be way off on this one.

I like your idear of pursuing needs with gov personnel but not sure how it can work logistically.

 

[thewave]

Do we make these medications?

Teva Canada | Search generic medications
Drug Shortage Report for TEVA-CHLOROQUINE
Chloroquine Phosphate API Manufacturers | Suppliers | Drug Master Files (DMF) | CEP | Pharmacompass.com

I think so. Well the US makes it, and France for sure.

 

[yubbers]

Combined they have approx 3 billion people there so ......

If we had that kind of population in Canada with even half of them driving every freakin day we would rack up the carbon points

CO2 aside.....things like dumping regulations. China is responsible for pretty much all the plastic in the ocean :p

 

[PromisedLand]

Enough for a global pandemic?

Again not in medicine but I doubt they make a ton of this stuff and just let it sit

Someone page a doctor lol

this is going to be like the toilet paper run soon once it gets mass media coverage especially since it’s available OTC

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It's already approved and being used in Canada (trial). If you do happen to get CV, you can likely get it prescribed. If that Doctor refuses, go to another Doctor (but they won't if you provide a reasonable argument, that being the 100% success rate in France).

My thinking here is if you get it why not try it out and it seems the earlier the better ... i mean being on a ventilator struggling to breath royally sucks ... why would any doctor who is compassionate not do it? Makes no sense to me. It is proven not to kill you. So what is da harm?

 

[PromisedLand]

CO2 aside.....things like dumping regulations. China is responsible for pretty much all the plastic in the ocean :p

yea. We in Canada act all high and mighty but we were sending our crap to Philippines and they had enough and told us to take our crap back
Philippines keeps telling Canada to pick up its trash — why is it still there?

I think I we did bring it back but not sure where we threw it.

But yea agree about China messing up the sea

 

[yubbers]

My thinking here is if you get it why not try it out and it seems the earlier the better ... i mean being on a ventilator struggling to breath royally sucks ... why would any doctor who is compassionate not do it? Makes no sense to me. It is proven not to kill you. So what is da harm?

Great way to lose your license. They have to follow rules.

 

[dubey]

this is going to be like the toilet paper run soon once it gets mass media coverage especially since it’s available OTC

But for good reason I guess

 

[thewave]

My thinking here is if you get it why not try it out and it seems the earlier the better ... i mean being on a ventilator struggling to breath royally sucks ... why would any doctor who is compassionate not do it? Makes no sense to me. It is proven not to kill you. So what is da harm?

Exactly. Usually when you treat things quickly it requires less drug to overcome the issue. I imagine they may be able to create lesser dosages of the drug to make it a little more tolerable. They are probably experimenting with dosages right now and once they have that it'll be the common treatment.

 

[yubbers]

yea. We in Canada act all high and mighty but we were sending our crap to Philippines and they had enough and told us to take our crap back
Philippines keeps telling Canada to pick up its trash — why is it still there?

I think I we did bring it back but not sure where we threw it.

But yea agree about China messing up the sea

I forgot about that...Phillipines is up there on the list.

Five Asian Countries Dump More Plastic Into Oceans Than Anyone Else Combined: How You Can Help

 

[thewave]

Great way to lose your license. They have to follow rules.

The most important thing we are doing right now is stalling the virus, limiting it's spread while research is ongoing. Once they have a standard treatment protocol in place and supply of the drug it'll be pretty smooth sailing.

 

[ULF_55]

My issue with the environmental movement is that they are waging war on trees and us! Carbon Dioxide is what the trees breathe! The more Carbon Dioxide and Sun + Water the more vegetation grows. There are so many scientists that are out there who say and put their reputation on the line to say... A single underwater volcano can outproduce all of humanity in a year, which produces less than 1% or thereabouts of the total.

I do have a problem with these things that they don't talk about...

Industrial chemicals dumped in the ocean, lakes, rivers and down mine shafts
Fukushima still cranking out radioactive waste daily
Child labor being used to make our things

Our problem is density, we pack too many humans too close together and then give them all cars and pack industries tightly which creates smog. They should make many small self sufficient communities tied together by high speed rail systems, that's the common sense solution.

I hear / see issues of industrial pollutants all the time.

Perhaps that's because I watch for that information?

Things we can change we should, things we did in the past we can't change we have to move on from.

...

The analytical side of me is watching this scenario play out.
The Asimov side of me is wondering what might come out the other side of this. Noseplug filters anyone?

I'm hoping this could be a watershed moment on planet earth.

Fricken dreamer!

 

[Pookie]

Just intense war. No biggie :p

 

[ULF_55]

CO2 aside.....things like dumping regulations. China is responsible for pretty much all the plastic in the ocean :p

Was on a ship for a couple years in the 70's.

One of the jobs was dumping garbage into the ocean every night.

 

[ULF_55]

yea. We in Canada act all high and mighty but we were sending our crap to Philippines and they had enough and told us to take our crap back
Philippines keeps telling Canada to pick up its trash — why is it still there?

I think I we did bring it back but not sure where we threw it.

But yea agree about China messing up the sea

This was a joint effort screw up.

Was supposed to be recyclable trash, but turned out to be garbage.

I'm guessing someone here thought they could make money, and contracted to dispose of it.

Someone over there thought they could make money from it.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm sure that wasn't a critically acclaimed movie but I enjoyed it.

 

[yubbers]

now i wanna watch that

 

[yubbers]

Was on a ship for a couple years in the 70's.

One of the jobs was dumping garbage into the ocean every night.

dang.

 

[kb]

Enough for a global pandemic?

Again not in medicine but I doubt they make a ton of this stuff and just let it sit

Someone page a doctor lol

If I'm not mistaken wasn't this used as a treatment for malaria for the troops in wartime? If so, I would imagine it can probably be scaled up quickly.

 

[Jojalu]

At what point do they say - ya this working - time to scale production of it

Or have they done that?

I have not heard they are producing yet. I still think they need to verify that this won't cause severe side effects. The hope is that it will be quick. As the US has invoked the Production Act as soon as they get word they will produce it at a quick rate

 

[ULF_55]

If I'm not mistaken wasn't this used as a treatment for malaria for the troops in wartime? If so, I would imagine it can probably be scaled up quickly.

Costco Pharmacy - Medications - Plaquenil - hydroxychloroquine
What side effects are possible with this medication?

Many medications can cause side effects. A side effect is an unwanted response to a medication when it is taken in normal doses. Side effects can be mild or severe, temporary or permanent.
The side effects listed below are not experienced by everyone who takes this medication. If you are concerned about side effects, discuss the risks and benefits of this medication with your doctor.
The following side effects have been reported by at least 1% of people taking this medication. Many of these side effects can be managed, and some may go away on their own over time.
Contact your doctor if you experience these side effects and they are severe or bothersome. Your pharmacist may be able to advise you on managing side effects.

• diarrhea
• dizziness
• hair loss
• headache
• increased skin sensitivity to sunlight
• loss of appetite
• nausea
• skin rash
• stomach cramps or pain
• vomiting

Although most of the side effects listed below don't happen very often, they could lead to serious problems if you do not check with your doctor or seek medical attention.
Check with your doctor as soon as possible if any of the following side effects occur:

• blurred vision or any change in vision – this effect may also occur or worsen after stopping the medication
• change in colour of hair or skin pigment
• flu-like symptoms (sudden lack of energy, fever, cough, sore throat)
• hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that are not there)
• mood or other mental changes
• muscle weakness
• ringing or buzzing in ears or any loss of hearing
• signs of anemia (low red blood cells; e.g., dizziness, pale skin, unusual tiredness or weakness, shortness of breath)
• signs of bleeding (e.g., unusual nosebleeds, bruising, blood in urine, coughing blood, bleeding gums, cuts that don't stop bleeding)
• signs of heart problems (e.g., fast, irregular heartbeat or pulse, chest pain, sudden weight gain, difficulty breathing, leg swelling)
• signs of infection (symptoms may include fever or chills, severe diarrhea, shortness of breath, prolonged dizziness, headache, stiff neck, weight loss, or listlessness)
• signs of liver problems (e.g., nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of appetite, weight loss, yellowing of the skin or whites of the eyes, dark urine, pale stools)
• signs of low blood sugar (hypoglycemia) (e.g., blurred vision, dizziness, fatigue, headache, numbness or tingling of the mouth, rapid heartbeat, shakiness, sweating or confusion)
• tingling, numbness or burning pain
• unusual tiredness or weakness

Stop taking the medication and seek immediate medical attention if any of the following occur:

• convulsions (seizures)
• extrapyramidal symptoms (abnormal body movements, restlessness, shaking, or stiffness)
• signs of a severe skin reaction such as blistering, peeling, a rash covering a large area of the body, a rash that spreads quickly, or a rash combined with fever or discomfort
• signs of a serious allergic reaction (e.g., abdominal cramps, difficulty breathing, nausea and vomiting, or swelling of the face and throat)
• thoughts of suicide or self-harm

Some people may experience side effects other than those listed. Check with your doctor if you notice any symptom that worries you while you are taking this medication.
Are there any other precautions or warnings for this medication?

Before you begin using a medication, be sure to inform your doctor of any medical conditions or allergies you may have, any medications you are taking, whether you are pregnant or breast-feeding, and any other significant facts about your health. These factors may affect how you should use this medication.
Blood tests: If you take this medication for a long period of time, your doctor will likely want you to have blood tests to monitor your levels of red and white blood cells.
Blood sugar levels: Hydroxychloroquine may cause hypoglycemia (low blood sugar levels). People with diabetes may find it necessary to monitor their blood sugar more frequently while using this medication. People without diabetes have also been known to experience low blood sugars while taking hydroxychloroquine. If you experience signs of low blood sugar (cold sweat, cool pale skin, headache, or weakness), contact your doctor immediately.
Blurred vision: While taking this medication, use caution when driving or operating machinery, since hydroxychloroquine can cause blurring of vision. If your vision blurs, call your doctor.
Eye damage: Irreversible damage to the retina of the eye has occurred for some people who take long-term or high-dosage treatment with hydroxychloroquine. Eye damage is more likely to occur if recommended doses are exceeded. Your doctor will want you to have regular eye exams if you take this medication for a period of time. If you notice any new problems with sight or symptoms such as light flashes and streaks, stop the medication at once and call your doctor.
Heart disease: Rarely, weakening of the heart muscle has been reported with the use of hydroxychloroquine. If you have heart disease, discuss with your doctor how this medication may affect your medical condition, how your medical condition may affect the dosing and effectiveness of this medication, and whether any special monitoring is needed.
Kidney disease: If you have kidney disease, you may need a lower dose of this medication. Talk to your doctor about how this medication may affect your medical condition, how the medical condition may affect the dosing and effectiveness of this medication, and whether any special monitoring is needed.
Liver disease: If you have liver disease, you may need a lower dose of this medication. Talk to your doctor about how this medication may affect your medical condition, how the medical condition may affect the dosing and effectiveness of this medication, and whether any special monitoring is needed.
Muscle weakness: Call your doctor if you notice any signs of unusual or unexpected muscular weakness.
Other medical conditions: If you have stomach, nerve, blood, or skin disorders, talk to your doctor about how this medication may affect your medical condition, how your medical condition may affect the dosing and effectiveness of this medication, and whether any special monitoring is needed.
Suicidal behaviour: Rarely, people taking this medication may feel agitated (restless, anxious, aggressive, emotional, and feeling not like themselves), or they may want to hurt themselves or others. These symptoms may occur within several weeks after starting this medication. If you experience these side effects or notice them in a family member who is taking this medication, contact your doctor immediately. You should be closely monitored by your doctor for emotional and behaviour changes while taking this medication.
Pregnancy: Hydroxychloroquine crosses the placenta during pregnancy and may cause harm to the developing baby if it is taken by the mother during pregnancy. This medication should not be used during pregnancy unless the benefits outweigh the risks. If you become pregnant while taking this medication, contact your doctor immediately.
Breast-feeding: This medication passes in small amounts into breast milk. Infants are extremely sensitive to its side effects. If you are a breast-feeding mother and are taking hydroxychloroquine, it may affect your baby. Talk to your doctor about whether you should continue breast-feeding.
Children: The safety and effectiveness of using this medication have not been established for children when used for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis or systemic lupus erythematosus. Children are especially sensitive to the side effects of hydroxychloroquine.
What other drugs could interact with this medication?

There may be an interaction between hydroxychloroquine and any of the following:

• albendazole
• amiodarone
• beta-adrenergic blockers (e.g., atenolol, propranolol, sotalol)
• chlorpromazine
• cyclosporine
• dapsone
• diabetes medications (e.g., glyburide, chlorpropamide, insulin, rosiglitazone)
• digoxin
• leflunomide
• live vaccines (e.g., BCG, yellow fever, measles, mumps, rubella)
• mebendazole
• mefloquine
• methotrimeprazine
• perphenazine
• praziquantel
• prochlorperazine
• pyrantel pamoate
• thioridazine
• trifluoperazine

If you are taking any of these medications, speak with your doctor or pharmacist. Depending on your specific circumstances, your doctor may want you to:

• stop taking one of the medications,
• change one of the medications to another,
• change how you are taking one or both of the medications, or
• leave everything as is.

An interaction between two medications does not always mean that you must stop taking one of them. Speak to your doctor about how any drug interactions are being managed or should be managed.

 

[bikemike66]

It would be good news if the anti-malarial drug was effective....BUT if it lead to complacency regarding the measures that have been put in place, it could tragically backfire.

It is not a cure. It is not a vaccine. At best, it will be an effective treatment that will improve symptoms and lessen severity for MOST, but not all. People would still die and the health care system would still be overwhelmed even with this treatment.

Still, it is potentially great news if the public can keep it in perspective. A vaccine though...the developer of that will be a hero of the magnitude of Banting and Salk.

 

[dubey]

If I'm not mistaken wasn't this used as a treatment for malaria for the troops in wartime? If so, I would imagine it can probably be scaled up quickly.

Ya but this was in the early 1900s so they'd have to mass produce it again

I have not heard they are producing yet. I still think they need to verify that this won't cause severe side effects. The hope is that it will be quick. As the US has invoked the Production Act as soon as they get word they will produce it at a quick rate

Ya just wondering about the timeline

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Great way to lose your license. They have to follow rules.

So you like to watch an old dog suffer badly on a ventilator and die without doing anything ... common man be real.