OT: COVID-19- March 17 2020 - No politics! Read post #1

[Kiwi]

I hate the idea but if that's what Canada is going to do anyways, get some collateral. Believe me, I hate big Government because it's completely useless and not cost effective. Nothing ever gets done on time or on budget and you give them $100 and get $30 of productivity.

Pretty sure our banks will just get the money from the Bank of Canada with the stroke of a key and once it's there if they run in to troubles, Canadian's pay anyways.

Once you own shares in a company you have a vested interest in that company succeeding, then you run the real risk of the government getting involved in the market and picking winners and losers which has consequences well into the future

I'd definitely want some sort of assurance they have a plan to get out of that asap, it's not an area I'd feel comfortable the government getting involved in for any sort of term

 

[thewave]

Once you own shares in a company you have a vested interest in that company succeeding, then you run the real risk of the government getting involved in the market and picking winners and losers which has consequences well into the future

I'd definitely want some sort of assurance they have a plan to get out of that asap, it's not an area I'd feel comfortable the government getting involved in for any sort of term

Modern Government... Covid conditions

 

[Kiwi]

You think it is logistical issue I think it can be done i don;t think using military might (navy, airforce) to get "needs" to stores so that people can still buy affordable food/meds instead of paying jacked up prices because shipping industry is trying to make a quick buck taking advantage of the situation is out of the ordinary. It is not rocket science; it is loading stuff up and transporting it from point A to point B. It not about ransporing radioactive material or highly sensitive material where logistics and supply chain have to be monitored and handled carefully; I guess we will agree to disagree here.

I think it's possible but its going to take time, years in fact and an eye watering amount of expense that would be better going to saving the world economy and propping up businesses and individual citizens in need

You'd also need to reallocate manufacturing towards building vehicles (ships, trucks) the military needs to move all that stuff as well, thats not even Getting into the trained manpower to move it

It's very easy to do. You declare emergency and then take over commercial airlines for a time, and move what you need with their pilots and cargo capacity. We have a very large merchant fleet, larger than ever.

So nationalize the airline and shipping industries? It's hard to put into words how against that I would be

 

[thewave]

I think it's possible but its going to take time, years in fact and an eye watering amount of expense that would be better going to saving the world economy and propping up businesses and individual citizens in need

You'd also need to reallocate manufacturing towards building vehicles (ships, trucks) the military needs to move all that stuff as well, thats not even Getting into the trained manpower to move it



So nationalize the airline and shipping industries? It's hard to put into words how against that I would be

Not working and letting everything collapse is the most expensive option all things considered. Everyone turns to the GOV for EI etc. I am not talking about long term ownership and the ideal is to let poorly managed companies fail. If you need a bailout after 1 week, your company must be terribly managed.

That's a wartime measures act thing. You take over civilian and commercial property for temporary use to address the issue. It's not permanent and they would like pay for the use of the equipment. Just to move things, we've done it before. I mean, it's like a cop commandeering your car in an emergency.

 

[Kiwi]

Modern Government... Covid conditions

Governments are granting themselves a lot of powers but once you start nationalizing whole industries your getting into territory you shouldn't be in

They may be able to do that with people as frightened as they are but I'd be protesting that the next day, and going to jail most likely

 

[IPS]

Bill gates just did an AMA and its trending on reddit. Basically said they are working on an id chip that you insert to show you were vaccinated. People are freaking out.

Here is the full AMA.



digital certificate” is essentially a “digital ID microchip” that will be implanted under a person’s skin:

“…Microsoft and MIT developed ‘tatoo markers’ that show whether you have recieved a vaccine or not. This will be coupled with Gate’s new invention, ID2020, which is a digital ID microchip implanted under the skin.”​

"

Nice, did he answer any questions pertaining to his good pedo buddy Jeffrey Epstein?

 

[PromisedLand]

Ceo of AMC is already asking for government relief.

 

[Kiwi]

Not working and letting everything collapse is the most expensive option all things considered. Everyone turns to the GOV for EI etc. I am not talking about long term ownership and the ideal is to let poorly managed companies fail. If you need a bailout after 1 week, your company must be terribly managed.

That's a wartime measures act thing. You take over civilian and commercial property for temporary use to address the issue. It's not permanent and they would like pay for the use of the equipment. Just to move things, we've done it before. I mean, it's like a cop commandeering your car in an emergency.

So I'm taking the governments word that once it has partial ownership of these companies their going to relinquish it? I'd want that in law before I'd even contemplate going down that route, not that my opinion matters they will just do it anyway, that isn't the only way of propping up the economy either

I have some sympathy for some companies in this situation, the government is asking them to basically close for God knows how long which is bloody difficult in any financial situation

I don't want to give them that type of power, if they want to use private property they should get the agreement of the property owner first and agree on compensation beforehand, which isn't going to happen either

 

[PromisedLand]

I think it's possible but its going to take time, years in fact and an eye watering amount of expense that would be better going to saving the world economy and propping up businesses and individual citizens in need

You'd also need to reallocate manufacturing towards building vehicles (ships, trucks) the military needs to move all that stuff as well, thats not even Getting into the trained manpower to move it

I am not suggesting government take this as a "full time business"; it is only temporarily if the shipping firms are jacking up prices and these prices are being passed on to the consumers (you and me and many others). Paying through the nose for necessities when government is sending money to households directly is a failed policy;

If the government is spending say approx. 1500 dollars each to households severely impacted by the current economic conditions; that 1500 dollar estimate is based on the price of basic neccesities in the market as of now; if these prices rise 1500 is not going to cut it for the families; and government gets poorer; households suffer only people that benefit from this are the businesses who make fat profits by holding the "supply" hostage.

That is why, temporarily, until this caronavirus situation gets resolved; if the shipping industry is trying to make fat profits by lowering the supply and jacking up prices; governments either use military to get basic needs/supplies to the store and keep the cost of food/meds down so that the 1500 dollars should suffice in the short-run until this virus is dealt with and things go back to normal OR introduce quick policies where shipping firms cannot increase prices to deliver food. If governments don't act fast enough then this fiscal stimulus that is being given to households is not going to be enough and very quickly and they will have a failed policy

 

[PromisedLand]

Bill gates just did an AMA and its trending on reddit. Basically said they are working on an id chip that you insert to show you were vaccinated. People are freaking out.

Here is the full AMA.



digital certificate” is essentially a “digital ID microchip” that will be implanted under a person’s skin:

“…Microsoft and MIT developed ‘tatoo markers’ that show whether you have recieved a vaccine or not. This will be coupled with Gate’s new invention, ID2020, which is a digital ID microchip implanted under the skin.”​

"

Illuminati confirmed!!!!!!!

 

[Kiwi]

I am not suggesting government take this as a "full time business"; it is only temporarily if the shipping firms are jacking up prices and these prices are being passed on to the consumers (you and me and many others). Paying through the nose for necessities when government is sending money to households directly is a failed policy;

If the government is spending say approx. 1500 dollars each to households severely impacted by the current economic conditions; that 1500 dollar estimate is based on the price of basic neccesities in the market as of now; if these prices rise 1500 is not going to cut it for the families; and government gets poorer; households suffer only people that benefit from this are the businesses who make fat profits by holding the "supply" hostage.

That is why, temporarily, until this caronavirus situation gets resolved; if the shipping industry is trying to make fat profits by lowering the supply and jacking up prices; governments either use military to get basic needs/supplies to the store and keep the cost of food/meds down so that the 1500 dollars should suffice in the short-run until this virus is dealt with and things go back to normal OR introduce quick policies where shipping firms cannot increase prices to deliver food. If governments don't act fast enough then this fiscal stimulus that is being given to households is not going to be enough and very quickly and they will have a failed policy

That doesn't matter, it's what they will need to meet the demand and logistical requirements to move that much freight, you need to create that capacity somehow

So? If the military can't move that much freight it just can't move it, your either going to have to price fix or nationalize those companies instead if they price gouge, also horrendous options by the way

 

[PromisedLand]

That doesn't matter, it's what they will need to meet the demand and logistical requirements to move that much freight, you need to create that capacity somehow

So? If the military can't move that much freight it just can't move it, your either going to have to price fix or nationalize those companies instead if they price gouge, also horrendous options by the way

Not true. It may be true in NZ; this is not the case for Canada or US.

US and Canada have both decided to fund the expenses of the households as a fiscal policy; so it matters to us here in north america. New Zeland announced 10 billion fiscal policy; it is not going to matter if that policy doesn't cover the cost of households; especially the households in severe need.

Screw the shipping firms if they are trying to screw us; they can take their services and shove it

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

So I'm taking the governments word that once it has partial ownership of these companies their going to relinquish it? I'd want that in law before I'd even contemplate going down that route, not that my opinion matters they will just do it anyway, that isn't the only way of propping up the economy either

I have some sympathy for some companies in this situation, the government is asking them to basically close for God knows how long which is bloody difficult in any financial situation

I don't want to give them that type of power, if they want to use private property they should get the agreement of the property owner first and agree on compensation beforehand, which isn't going to happen either

I can't speak for airlines but with the analogy he used for cops commandeering a car, I know there already are several laws allowing for commandeering various assets. For example, I know the government here can take a lot of various private citizen equipment if needed in emergency to fight forest fires. It's literally written into an Act.

 

[ULF_55]

Governments are granting themselves a lot of powers but once you start nationalizing whole industries your getting into territory you shouldn't be in

They may be able to do that with people as frightened as they are but I'd be protesting that the next day, and going to jail most likely

Doesn't really matter Skynet is coming, so it really won't matter.

 

[Kiwi]

Not true. It may be true in NZ; this is not the case for Canada or US.

US and Canada have both decided to fund the expenses of the households as a fiscal policy; so it matters to us here in north america. New Zeland announced 10 billion fiscal policy; it is not going to matter if that policy doesn't cover the cost of households; especially the households in severe need.

Screw the shipping firms if they are trying to screw us; they can take their services and shove it

So? That doesn't mean the military can move that freight though, they aren't magic and things like capacity and logistics still matter moving large amounts of stuff

I can't speak for airlines but with the analogy he used for cops commandeering a car, I know there already are several laws allowing for commandeering various assets. For example, I know the government here can take a lot of various private citizen equipment if needed in emergency to fight forest fires. It's literally written into an Act.

They can take land to create roads and infrastructure in most places as well, there's a lot of laws on the books that allow governments to confiscate private property if it's in the "public interest"

I wouldn't be shocked if they could nationalize the airlines or shipping companies if they wanted to, I don't like it but they probably could

 

[Kiwi]

Doesn't really matter Skynet is coming, so it really won't matter.

That's the next thing down the line, let's deal with this crisis first

 

[PromisedLand]

Event 201, a pandemic exercise to illustrate preparedness efforts

Event 201

Ummm..... boy o boy if there any close coincidences this sure is one.

 

[PromisedLand]

So? That doesn't mean the military can move that freight though, they aren't magic and things like capacity and logistics still matter moving large amounts of stuff

Like i said before we will agree to disagree. I don't want to keep repeating what I said before

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

They can take land to create roads and infrastructure in most places as well, there's a lot of laws on the books that allow governments to confiscate private property if it's in the "public interest"

I wouldn't be shocked if they could nationalize the airlines or shipping companies if they wanted to, I don't like it but they probably could

Yup. Nobody owns land, you rent it (buy it and are then taxed on it). You can be booted off at any time. Really not that far off medieval times.

 

[PromisedLand]

Walmart says it will pay special cash bonuses to hourly associates during 'national health crisis'

Oh and yea... F you shipping firms you scum bags

 

[frog]

the world is a mess right now, and just headed straight into a depression era recession. Everyone is going bankrupt. Hopefully something positive happens soon.

 

[Kiwi]

Like i said before we will agree to disagree. I don't want to keep repeating what I said before

That's fine, I still think your better off going down the price fixing or nationalizing route, more realistic and I'm sure the governments would have the power to do it

Yup. Nobody owns land, you rent it (buy it and are then taxed on it). You can be booted off at any time. Really not that far off medieval times.

Nothing changes, unless your a massive multinational your beholden to somebody, be it a Lord or the government

 

[m1ker]

Why test people with symptoms? The ones without symptoms are the ones spreading. We should flip our objectives

 

[PromisedLand]

That's fine, I still think your better off going down the price fixing or nationalizing route, more realistic and I'm sure the governments would have the power to do it

Sure do the "price-fixing or price-ceiling" model for the next 6 months and lock the price everywhere not just for shipping but also for essential goods: Food, medicines, etc...; but they gotta do it fast.

Fiscal stimulus is not going to be useful if prices of essential goods like food etc... increase dramatically

Not sure about where you live but in Canada food prices are already increasing;

 

[Kiwi]

Sure do the "price-fixing or price-ceiling" model for the next 6 months and lock the price everywhere not just for shipping but also for essential goods: Food, medicines, etc...; but they gotta do it fast.

Fiscal stimulus is not going to be useful if prices of essential goods like food etc... increase dramatically

Not sure about where you live but in Canada food prices are already increasing;

I'm sure they would, governments aren't shy about market involvement in a crisis

New Zealand, prices haven't taken a jump but we haven't been hit hard by the virus yet