OT: COVID-19- March 17 2020 - No politics! Read post #1

[thewave]

Noting that you've edited to not be quite a offside... I hadn't seen such research, and Fox is less than reliable... had it been a more reliable source, it would be taken more seriously, so thanks for providing a more reliable source.

There are multiple other drugs being tested too...and they are just that, Clinical Trials, that take months to do the testing, before they would be rolled out. They might be successful, they might not be.

Coronavirus Treatment: How Is COVID-19 Treated?

Vaccines and treatment options for COVID-19 are currently being investigated around the world. There’s some evidence that certain medications may have the potential to be effective with regard to preventing illness or treating the symptoms of COVID-19.
However, researchers need to perform randomized controlled trialsTrusted Source in humans before potential vaccines and other treatments become available. This may take several months or longer.

https://umsu.ac.ir/uploads/165.pdf

"results from more than 100 patients have demonstrated that chloroquine phosphate is superior to the control treatment in inhibiting the exacerbation of pneumonia, improving lung imaging findings, promoting a virus negative conversion, and shortening the disease course".

 

[yubbers]

Noting that you've edited to not be quite a offside... I hadn't seen such research, and Fox is less than reliable... had it been a more reliable source, it would be taken more seriously, so thanks for providing a more reliable source.

There are multiple other drugs being tested too...and they are just that, Clinical Trials, that take months to do the testing, before they would be rolled out. They might be successful, they might not be.

Coronavirus Treatment: How Is COVID-19 Treated?

Vaccines and treatment options for COVID-19 are currently being investigated around the world. There’s some evidence that certain medications may have the potential to be effective with regard to preventing illness or treating the symptoms of COVID-19.
However, researchers need to perform randomized controlled trialsTrusted Source in humans before potential vaccines and other treatments become available. This may take several months or longer.

what are you basing that off?
I'm not defending Fox here. I just find it odd when ppl dismiss info based on a source. Read it all man.

 

[PromisedLand]

A severe recession is likely, depression isn't impossible. This won't be a minor blip in the least.

The longer this lasts, the worse the likely outcome is. If this was a two weeks, and back to normal thing, sure... but it won't be. How does a restaurant server bounce back, to purchase goods and services the way they did? Sure, some of their hourly will be covered, but they won't get tips covered, which is most often the larger portion of their pay. Many small businesses will be massively impacted. Nearly 50% of Canadians were within $200 a month of not being able to pay their bills.... and then this happens. In many parts of the world, a recession had already started, this will surely result in some sort of a recession.

Keep in mind, 550,000 Canadians are employed, directly, or indirectly in the Energy Sector. It accounts for 11% of the Canadian GDP. Canadian Western Select Oil, the price that Bitumen receives, was $5.43 as I typed this.... per barrel. Oil Price Charts | Oilprice.com You are going to see our entire Oil sector shuttered very shortly, should these depressed Oil prices continue... this isn't a Coronavirus story at all... and it's probable that on it's own, we would have entered a recession just on Oil prices.

As for the restaurant server; the goods and services that they were purchasing I assume would not be significant based on their income unless of course they were living a "large" lifestyle in that case I don't think it is wise for society to compensate them or for that matter anyone else who try to live beyond their means making minimum payments on their credit cards. It was their choice to live that lifestyle it wasn't forced.

I have had friends/colleagues who live large and their income is not enough to support their lifestyle choices; hopefully; they learn a valuable lesson here - if not - it is their choice. I have always lived within my means and saved so that if I do not have any income in the foreseeable future I won't beg or not be able to make payments. 2009 financial crisis was a lesson in itself; I learned form it and adapted my lifestyle choices accordingly.

Current gov't spending/programs are being rolled out especially for small businesses and people at risk; the tax structure is also designed that way i.e. marginal increment based on one's annual income and deductibles.

People who were employed in the "energy" sector are compensated handsomely; if their lifestyle choices were to live within their means they will be fine. Ontario and Quebec account for 50% of Canadian GDP; and both provinces are not heavily dependent on "Oil"; Alberta and to some extent Newfoundland will be impacted. Alberta more so because of "oil sands" Newfoundland has light oil and is close to the port.

For many years Alberta has been asked to diversify their economy and not be totally dependent on "oil" alone; but that province has time and time again decided to not diversify; why should the rest of the Canadians suffer because of Alberta's poor choices? Alberta decided to not have any sales tax whose fault is that? All of Canada or not having proper foresight in terms of policy in AB?

Oil is not the only commodity in the world; and oil prices though will have an impact on the Canadian economy; it won't crash and burn Canada's economy. Demand for oil dictates the price action; at the current state even the OPEC countries are going to suffer; Saudi is not going to so call "win" the war; because they also have a cost of production; if they continue to sell oil at a cheaper price they are the "ultimate" losers too.

More importantly, 80% of oil produced in Canada is shipped to US refineries anyway; Canadian oil demand is mostly from the US; it is imperative that US economy quickly rebounds so that Canadian economy can also rebound.

Demand is going to explode as the carona virus treatment gets closer to 100%; I am not too worried about it. Stock market crash is a false signal IMO; Financial crisis in 2009 was the worst since the great depression and global economy resurfaced after a while.

Oil is a commodity that is highly volatile; I would not be surprised to see oil price getting back up to 50 dollars a barrel; if Saudi continues to do what they are doing they are going to be the ultimate losers and there are going to be foregone massive profits; they are only doing it to tick of Russia; russian oil reserves are not that big -> Russia cannot afford to go to this "oil war" with Saudi; and neither Saudi can afford to continue massive pumping of oil and the current price. They might with the small battles now but in the long run they will lose the war due to forgone massive profits; I am sure Saudi is not that STUPID. Oil prices will be jacked up again in some time.

Also, for the folks in Canada who are dependent on employment from oil will just have to transfer their skills to other sectors; it will take time but that will happen - the goal is the "long run" stability; short-term disturbances happen in the economy and the right thing to do is not to react aggressively to short-term blips.

 

[Kiwi]

Noting that you've edited to not be quite a offside... I hadn't seen such research, and Fox is less than reliable... had it been a more reliable source, it would be taken more seriously, so thanks for providing a more reliable source.

There are multiple other drugs being tested too...and they are just that, Clinical Trials, that take months to do the testing, before they would be rolled out. They might be successful, they might not be.

Coronavirus Treatment: How Is COVID-19 Treated?

Vaccines and treatment options for COVID-19 are currently being investigated around the world. There’s some evidence that certain medications may have the potential to be effective with regard to preventing illness or treating the symptoms of COVID-19.
However, researchers need to perform randomized controlled trialsTrusted Source in humans before potential vaccines and other treatments become available. This may take several months or longer.

What makes Fox any less creditable or reliable than any other MSM source?
They all suck and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could kick them

 

[Joey Hoser]

What makes Fox any less creditable or reliable than any other MSM source?
They all suck and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could kick them

I always wonder what people who think like this do to inform themselves. Do you just like, read blogs that tell you what you want to hear? Make stuff up yourself? I certainly don't believe you're doing the science or reading the scientific papers.

I mean, I don't believe everything they say. I understand how bias and critical thinking work and take it for what it's worth. But I don't understand how people can just blanket-scoff at all credible news like that.

 

[Kiwi]

You mean Fox who has more viewers than Fake News CNN and MSNBC .
COMBINED!!
There is a reason for that.
Should be self explanatory.

They all suck, every time I see something from a MSM source I'm interested in I try to find other sources to verify it

 

[Kiwi]

I always wonder what people who think like this do to inform themselves. Do you just like, read blogs that tell you what you want to hear? Make stuff up yourself?

I mean, I don't believe everything they say. I understand how bias and critical thinking work and take it for what it's worth. But I don't understand how people can just blanket-scoff at all credible news like that.

I try to verify everything I see and read, especially if it comes from a main stream source because I don't want to be fed bull**** and propaganda

 

[Joey Hoser]

I try to verify everything I see and read, especially if it comes from a main stream source because I don't want to be fed bull**** and propaganda

Verify how? I find it hard to believe you're doing the science or the peer review. Are you sure you don't just search for what you want to hear?

 

[PromisedLand]

The only thing I agree with in this, buybacks should never have been made legal! They only became legal in 1984 and the concept is ridiculous! Outside that this decision is generally considered the merger of state and corporation. Has another name but maybe too political to use.

Trump backs government taking stake in companies as he opposes coronavirus aid being used for stock buybacks

Good to see some lessons being learned after massive bailouts during the financial crisis and the financial sector executives taking equally massive bonuses.

Gov't across the world can sell these stocks back to the investors and lower the burden on the households and social programs. I like this idea!!!

 

[PromisedLand]

The amount of disinformation about this virus from the mainstream varied by station. They were all in on it (reporting non factual information) and making it seem anything from Bio Weapons attack to a common cold. Absolutely ridiculous and as far as I am concerned mainstream has lost it's credibility! They are changing the goalposts and definitions day to day.

When did the mainstream media ever have any credibility to begin with to lose it?

 

[Kiwi]

Verify how? I find it hard to believe you're doing the science or the peer review. Are you sure you don't just search for what you want to hear?

I like to read the actual study if I can, it isn't that hard to educate yourself if you have an interest

I follow sources from the left and the right, I want to know what's actually happening, i don't want my own options spouted back at me

 

[Jojalu]

Noting that you've edited to not be quite a offside... I hadn't seen such research, and Fox is less than reliable... had it been a more reliable source, it would be taken more seriously, so thanks for providing a more reliable source.

There are multiple other drugs being tested too...and they are just that, Clinical Trials, that take months to do the testing, before they would be rolled out. They might be successful, they might not be.

Coronavirus Treatment: How Is COVID-19 Treated?

Vaccines and treatment options for COVID-19 are currently being investigated around the world. There’s some evidence that certain medications may have the potential to be effective with regard to preventing illness or treating the symptoms of COVID-19.
However, researchers need to perform randomized controlled trialsTrusted Source in humans before potential vaccines and other treatments become available. This may take several months or longer.

The hope is we can create something to shorten how long people are getting ill. As of now that is around 2 weeks for mild and over 3 if you are severe.

Anything can help fight off the infection and shorten it's lifespan in people would be amazing. It would help curb the spread.

These tests are only to help those infected. It is not a vaccine. People will still be at risk of being infected, and hopefully they produce enough to keep up with the demand

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I mean no offense to your buddy’s kid or trying to say how they should live their lives but....

trying to live downtown working as a server in a 2500 apartment is IMO not a good choice of lifestyle.

this to me is the definition of “living beyond your means”

Once again this post is not meant as a diss or trying to tell people how to live

No disrespect taken. But there are many many many people making much less than him in 2 bedrooms paying up to 4,000 month. Some of these guys working downtown at better establishments are making $100,000 per + when you include tips. But for reporting most around $75,000. The industry is well known for making more than reporting. You can't even find a 1 bedroom/kitchen under $1,500 per month. But I don't think you are I think Toronto real estate is anywhere near liveable. But regular people are trying. My point was there are many young families this week who are living on credit cards right now. In is a FACT. Like it or not.

 

[FraumBallard]

They all suck, every time I see something from a MSM source I'm interested in I try to find other sources to verify it

As do I.
They all have their own political agenda.

 

[thewave]

Chloroquine research paper

 

[Joey Hoser]

I like to read the actual study if I can, it isn't that hard to educate yourself if you have an interest

I follow sources from the left and the right, I want to know what's actually happening, i don't want my own options spouted back at me

Well if you genuinely do that research then fair enough. I just see so many people scoff at media as an excuse to be ignorant and think whatever they want, often leading to getting wrapped up in conspiracy theories and other nonsense, and I find that extremely frustrating. People who claim to think critically and look at the evidence, but literally ignore all the evidence in the world and think what they want.

 

[willmma]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus

USA has 11355 cases so far.
Out of the 279 closed cases 108 (39%) recovered and 171 (61%) died

Canada has 800 cases so far.
Out of the 21 closed cases 10(48%) recovered and 11(52%) died.

 

[PromisedLand]

The hope is we can create something to shorten how long people are getting ill. As of now that is around 2 weeks for mild and over 3 if you are severe.

Anything can help fight off the infection and shorten it's lifespan in people would be amazing. It would help curb the spread.

These tests are only to help those infected. It is not a vaccine. People will still be at risk of being infected, and hopefully they produce enough to keep up with the demand

I think one way to maintain strong demand is to provide the moolah directly to households and some small business; big firms don't need bailouts; if there is domestic demand (especially the middle class in Canada and globally); demand would be maintained and supply will increase to keep up as businesses like to make money

Once middle class spends money; lower middle class automatically gets jobs. IMO all the policies should be directed at maintaining middle class demand and not freakin' put more money into rich folks' bank accounts.

Demand is the ultimate driver; they have to maintain strong demand. If businesses try to limit the supply to bid up the prices then governments should have penalties on them for trying to monopolize the system; i mean it is not rocket science or quantum physics; it is common sense; hopefully governments across the globe act in unity and work this way.

Central banks are already partnering up globally to have similar decisions; fiscal decisions have to be done in unity as well IMO; time to work together is right NOW!!!!

 

[thewave]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus

USA has 11355 cases so far.
Out of the 279 closed cases 108 (39%) recovered and 171 (61%) died

Canada has 800 cases so far.
Out of the 21 closed cases 10(48%) recovered and 11(52%) died.

This is one of those things you wish you've not seen but can't un-see

 

[JT AM da real deal]

As I understand it if you're eligible for the small business deduction you're eligible for the wage subsidy. We've got payroll going out tomorrow and are due to file a PD7 on the 25th so I've got my 10% calculated to hold back on that remittance.

As for BCAP I think the BDC has just sorted out the details, I've got a call with my rep tomorrow.

Yes you and I will holdback 10% (hopefully next Friday) from remittance and that is supposed to be going to those employees vs the government. But when taxes are filed for 2021 guess what happens? As per my accountant it will get clawed back. So it is only temporary money on a deferred basis. Again only a cash bubble. Right now most people get a little back at tax season like 75%. Next year it will go in the opposite direction. This is what the tax people at CRA are telling us how it was designed. It is a deferral only.

 

[Joey Hoser]

This is one of those things you wish you've seen but can't un-see

Considering the virus seems to last ~2 weeks, and that's longer then when the outbreak started, it makes sense that almost nobody has recovered from it yet.

Wait a week and those numbers change drastically.

 

[PromisedLand]

No disrespect taken. But there are many many many people making much less than him in 2 bedrooms paying up to 4,000 month. Some of these guys working downtown at better establishments are making $100,000 per + when you include tips. But for reporting most around $75,000. The industry is well known for making more than reporting. You can't even find a 1 bedroom/kitchen under $1,500 per month. But I don't think you are I think Toronto real estate is anywhere near liveable. But regular people are trying. My point was there are many young families this week who are living on credit cards right now. In is a FACT. Like it or not.

I hear ya man; and I see your point; just because it is a FACT doesn't mean society as a whole has to compensate people who live beyond their means was what I was trying to say.

Simply put; if my neighbour is into gambling and loses all of their money; why the hell should I compensate my neighbour for his poor choices?

So if these folks were making 100K a year but did not report their income then that means they should have extra dollars stashed up; if they decided to "spend" that extra dollars while lying on their tax forms then quite frankly it is their fault - even if it is fact - I don't want government to use my tax dollars to help people who make poor lifestyle choices or lie to cheat the system while I declare my entire income on the tax forms.

Do you see what I am trying to say?

 

[Mess]

The drug I posted here earlier is looking good people! Let's get back to normal ASAP!

Another Fox news anchor asked the Centre for Disease Control guru Anthony Fauci this exact question.

INGRAHAM: Joining me now is the point man for the U.S. government's effort to fight the coronavirus, Dr. Anthony Fauci he is also Director of NIH's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. All right, Dr. Fauci, it's great to see you, you are working around the clock.

INGRAHAM: Hydroxychloroquine, Chloroquine rest of the year I mean all of these different anti-viral have been shown fairly promising in some of the early trials, some of them in end trials are those the type of anti-viral for the treatment not the vaccine that you all are looking at?

FAUCI: Yes. We have to be careful Laura that we don't assume something works based on an anecdotal report that's not controlled. And I refer specifically to Hydroxychloroquine. There's a lot of buzz out there on the internet on the social media about that.

INGRAHAM: Oh, there have been studies--

FAUCI: Well, you know those studies some of them were not controlled. But what we're going to do Secretary Azar, the Secretary of HHS has asked me at NIH, Bob Red Field at CDC, Steve Hahn at FDA to take a look at all that data, analyze it and make some decision what the best way forward. More clinical trials, now we'll see, but we're going to look at that data very seriously.

By that time, we will have already completed some of the trials on a variety of therapies. We don't know if they work now. Some of them might, if they do we'll make them available. Remember I said the vaccine would be available within the year to a year and a half; we're right now in the first phase one trial.

Source with Video:
Dr. Anthony Fauci says it will be weeks before we see effect of efforts to combat coronavirus

Dr. Anthony Fauci says it will be weeks before we see effect of efforts to combat coronavirus

 

[thewave]

Considering the virus seems to last ~2 weeks, and that's longer then when the outbreak started, it makes sense that almost nobody has recovered from it yet.

Wait a week and those numbers change drastically.

Need a laugh

 

[Kiwi]

Well if you genuinely do that research then fair enough. I just see so many people scoff at media as an excuse to be ignorant and think whatever they want, often leading to getting wrapped up in conspiracy theories and other nonsense, and I find that extremely frustrating. People who claim to think critically and look at the evidence, but literally ignore all the evidence in the world and think what they want.

Let's just say I have a healthy amount of skepticism about most media sources, I find most view things through their own ideological lenses

I don't want the lense, I just want the information then I'll make up my own mind on the particulars of the story