OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19): Part V

[LORDE]

Can we discuss how you have a contact in Japan? I’m intrigued

I have a girlfriend in Canada

 

[Machinehead]

I have a girlfriend in Canada

But aren't you also Canadian?

 

[Thirty One]

I have a girlfriend in Canada

What's her name? Maybe I know her.

 

[True Blue]

You're probably right. However, while I am no fan of Cuomo but I have to acknowledge two things here. 1. He has done a phenomenal job in handling this virus. 2. Neither do 49 other governors.

Not a big fan of his either, but I agree that he did a good job. However, now it is time for a hard decision and he seems to be out of ideas. It is easy to appear in control in the daily briefings when what you are stating is "We need this or we need that". It is much harder to appear in control when the time to make a hard decision needs to be made like he is at right now. Punting makes it look like you are loosing control of the situation. And when the marchers take to the streets of NY, you will have lost control of the situation. What is he going to do , have cops arrest people who are only marching because they need to work?

I agree that it should be measured, but he needs to start presenting a plan. The fact that he has not, makes me believe that he has none or has one but is paralyzed at needing to make a decision.

 

[True Blue]

It's a disgrace that this is the best this administration can do.

Do you think that this guy was just picked out of a hat?

 

[Gardner McKay]

Not a big fan of his either, but I agree that he did a good job. However, now it is time for a hard decision and he seems to be out of ideas. It is easy to appear in control in the daily briefings when what you are stating is "We need this or we need that". It is much harder to appear in control when the time to make a hard decision needs to be made like he is at right now. Punting makes it look like you are loosing control of the situation. And when the marchers take to the streets of NY, you will have lost control of the situation. What is he going to do , have cops arrest people who are only marching because they need to work?

I agree that it should be measured, but he needs to start presenting a plan. The fact that he has not, makes me believe that he has none or has one but is paralyzed at needing to make a decision.

Completely fair point. Time will tell.

 

[True Blue]

Really? Do you feel it Cuomo, being a multi millionaire and with that nice bonus you received this year? Now i don't support what the protesters are doing, but jeeze some of these people's livelihood is being destroyed because of everything being closed. So i have to say i'm a bit more sorry for them and it was a pretty tone-deaf thing to say. I'm sure a lot of those would love to get hired right now to work for anything, even during this, instead of going poor and not being able to provide for their family and kids.

That is where I am. This clearly does not cover everybody and is certainly not a rule, but I feel like the majority of the people that continue to be pro-lockdown are sitting at home getting a paycheck from their job. Just like that Washington Post reporter who published the article that the real problem is that Americans forgot how to sacrifice. It is very easy to say as you are in your pjs, typing an article from home, collecting your paycheck and have your benefits. When you have joined the ranks of those not collecting paychecks and only see the list of numbers that are growing for unemployment, your perspective is going to change.

And with that comment, Cuomo showed his true colors. He needs to put forth a plan. He has not and does not seem like he is in a hurry to do so.

 

[Machinehead]

Some of the biggest things hit include: casinos, airlines, hotels, barber shops and other beauty facilities of the like, theme parks, live events, gyms, theaters, restaurants.

This isn't good for anybody and I'm all for a managed return to something resembling normal life, and we should save every job that can be saved.

That said, there's no realistic way to just "restart" any of that. There's a reason they're the hardest hit. Unless advancements are made in medicine, people aren't going to do those things because they're not safe. I think we're overestimating how much the hardest hit businesses have to do with a lockdown.

 

[Fireonk]

Not a big fan of his either, but I agree that he did a good job. However, now it is time for a hard decision and he seems to be out of ideas. It is easy to appear in control in the daily briefings when what you are stating is "We need this or we need that". It is much harder to appear in control when the time to make a hard decision needs to be made like he is at right now. Punting makes it look like you are loosing control of the situation. And when the marchers take to the streets of NY, you will have lost control of the situation. What is he going to do , have cops arrest people who are only marching because they need to work?

I agree that it should be measured, but he needs to start presenting a plan. The fact that he has not, makes me believe that he has none or has one but is paralyzed at needing to make a decision.

Or, since hes already committed to May 15th, you wait as long as you can before publicly announcing a plan. At that point you'll have more accurate data to work off of and you even will start to see data come in from states like Georgia who are opening up today.

Not saying that is what he is purposely doing, I obviously don't know, but there is an advantage to continue compiling the information before committing to something.

 

[Machinehead]

Barbers, tattoos, and salons are probably doable. It's close contact, but it's close contact with one person. You can monitor one person. They can clean their equipment. Any reputable barber or tattoo shop is being sanitary anyway.

Businesses where you inherently share surfaces with many others are going to continue to be problematic whether you allow them to open or not.

 

[True Blue]

And let's be 100% clear: my position is not inconsistent with agreeing that the economy does need to reopen eventually. But it needs to happen as Cuomo has said it must: only once we have widespread testing/tracing, in carefully planned stages, and with the healthcare system and government both ready and waiting to respond (which may well include subsequent shutdowns) the moment there's a blip. Not the way Sweden did it from the get-go.

Not getting into rights and wrongs, but if you wait for widespread testing to be available, you may be waiting for a long time. And in that time, economical suicide is committed. One that there is no coming back from or not for a very, very long time.

I realize that it is a hard thing to say or see, and a decision is just as hard. But weighing the devastating long term effects needs to be factored in when making decisions. Maybe I am fatalistic or melodramatic, but I think that the chances of doing irrevocable harm due to pro longed lockdown & isolation are much closer than some believe.

 

[eco's bones]

Do you think that this guy was just picked out of a hat?

What qualifications does he have? Not in medicine. Not in running a national task force of any kind in the past. Not particularly in finance either. Is he a guy use to coordinating the different state and local governments across and around the country? No. He's not. He worked for Alex Azar before in a previous administration and he knows Dick Cheney and from there he went on to breeding dogs for 6 years. It's kind of like taking a little league coach and making him manager of the Yankees.

Let real health experts lead the way on viral pandemics. Don't interfere or butt in on them doing their jobs.

 

[True Blue]

Or, since hes already committed to May 15th, you wait as long as you can before publicly announcing a plan. At that point you'll have more accurate data to work off of and you even will start to see data come in from states like Georgia who are opening up today.

Not saying that is what he is purposely doing, I obviously don't know, but there is an advantage to continue compiling the information before committing to something.

I agree with you on the substance, but also believe that unless he wants to see people start to march in the streets, he needs to at least make it appear like there is a plan.

I am not entirely uncertain that he does not punt it again until 6/1. I think that is a mistake, but it will only confirm my belief that he has no plan. Could be that I am wrong, but he is going to start to loose the confidence of the people pretty soon if he does not.

 

[True Blue]

What qualifications does he have? Not in medicine. Not in running a national task force of any kind in the past. Not particularly in finance either. Is he a guy use to coordinating the different state and local governments across and around the country? No. He's not. He worked for Alex Azar before in a previous administration and he knows Dick Cheney and from there he went on to breeding dogs for 6 years. It's kind of like taking a little league coach and making him manager of the Yankees.

Let real health experts lead the way on viral pandemics. Don't interfere or butt in on them doing their jobs.

I do not know much about him, but just like a CEO can be hired without having to need prior experience with that product, so too can this be done. You do not know his qualifications. No matter of your level of hatred for Trump, I am sure that this guy was vetted. Sometimes leaders are those that keep the ball moving.

Whatever you think, I am not sure that this is an example of butting in or interfering.

 

[Machinehead]

We're going to have a plan for New York soon.

We still had 1,200 hospitalizations yesterday. We gotta keep our pants on.

 

[Irishguy42]

Barbers, tattoos, and salons are probably doable. It's close contact, but it's close contact with one person. You can monitor one person. They can clean their equipment. Any reputable barber or tattoo shop is being sanitary anyway.

Businesses where you inherently share surfaces with many others are going to continue to be problematic whether you allow them to open or not.

 

[Machinehead]

I used one these when I worked at CVS to avoid touching things with my hands because I've always been neurotic.

One of my coworkers broke it

 

[Fireonk]

I agree with you on the substance, but also believe that unless he wants to see people start to march in the streets, he needs to at least make it appear like there is a plan.

I am not entirely uncertain that he does not punt it again until 6/1. I think that is a mistake, but it will only confirm my belief that he has no plan. Could be that I am wrong, but he is going to start to loose the confidence of the people pretty soon if he does not.

New York is just a different animal than other places right now. If it comes to May 15th and we still have over 5k new cases a day, that's not necessarily punting a decision. That's making the decision that New York isn't ready to open yet.

I know you might disagree with that decision, but its a decision nonetheless.

 

[True Blue]

That said, there's no realistic way to just "restart" any of that. There's a reason they're the hardest hit. Unless advancements are made in medicine, people aren't going to do those things because they're not safe. I think we're overestimating how much the hardest hit businesses have to do with a lockdown.

You and I disagree on a lot of things. Not going to rehash them and you clearly know where I stand. That said, they need to let kids return to school. Maybe not in time for June, but certainly they need to let them return by fall. You cannot simply run a 30-35 (or worse) classroom with only 10 desks. And virtual learning is not really working, despite what De Douchio says.

The effects of isolation on the children is showing. And, you may certainly disagree, but with a return to school needs to come a return to kids sports. The effects on their health depends on it.

That also means that the not for profits need to have the ability to fund raise because some schools depend on that.

 

[True Blue]

New York is just a different animal than other places right now. If it comes to May 15th and we still have over 5k new cases a day, that's not necessarily punting a decision. That's making the decision that New York isn't ready to open yet.

I know you might disagree with that decision, but its a decision nonetheless.

You are right. But the decision that is being made can be being made because he has lost control of the situation and has no idea of what to do.

I do not dispute that he is between a rock and hard place. It is a very hard decision that needs to be made. He has to weigh the numbers spiking against turning NYC into Hooverville for the long term. If he punts, I do not think that public protests are too far behind.

 

[Machinehead]

You and I disagree on a lot of things. Not going to rehash them and you clearly know where I stand. That said, they need to let kids return to school. Maybe not in time for June, but certainly they need to let them return by fall. You cannot simply run a 30-35 (or worse) classroom with only 10 desks. And virtual learning is not really working, despite what De Douchio says.

The effects of isolation on the children is showing. And, you may certainly disagree, but with a return to school needs to come a return to kids sports. The effects on their health depends on it.

That also means that the not for profits need to have the ability to fund raise because some schools depend on that.

I know they need to return kids to school and that's why I said it's going to be a problem.

School isn't dependent on demand, though.

Those other businesses are. If they're not safe, people won't go.

 

[LORDE]

But aren't you also Canadian?

Define Canadian... I was born in Hamilton w an American mom... grew up in NY

 

[Fireonk]

You are right. But the decision that is being made can be being made because he has lost control of the situation and has no idea of what to do.

I do not dispute that he is between a rock and hard place. It is a very hard decision that needs to be made. He has to weigh the numbers spiking against turning NYC into Hooverville for the long term. If he punts, I do not think that public protests are too far behind.

There is without a doubt a measure of not knowing what to do here. How can he? Which is why I don't think him not coming out with a plan publicly is a bad thing. Over the next couple weeks he will be able to add this into the decision making process:
-Updated current new case count
-Initial information on spread once other places re-opened
-Potential additional information on the virus and treatments
-Updated information on testing capability and how to best deploy them

All of that information could really alter the landscape in a few weeks. So why not hold off announcing anything until you have the best information possible?

You keep bringing up Hooverville, but if you open up without a way of containing things you are looking at potentially hundreds of thousands of deaths in nyc alone. Hundreds of thousands. People complaining about working at the risk of that many lives can go suck it Hoover style for all I care.

And I say that as a proponent of other places being able to start opening up.

 

[Off Sides]

What qualifications does he have? Not in medicine. Not in running a national task force of any kind in the past. Not particularly in finance either. Is he a guy use to coordinating the different state and local governments across and around the country? No. He's not. He worked for Alex Azar before in a previous administration and he knows Dick Cheney and from there he went on to breeding dogs for 6 years. It's kind of like taking a little league coach and making him manager of the Yankees.

Let real health experts lead the way on viral pandemics. Don't interfere or butt in on them doing their jobs.

Yeah but think of the up side, the Covidoodle will be the new popular breed at the Westminster next year.

 

[LORDE]

Not getting into rights and wrongs, but if you wait for widespread testing to be available, you may be waiting for a long time. And in that time, economical suicide is committed. One that there is no coming back from or not for a very, very long time.

I realize that it is a hard thing to say or see, and a decision is just as hard. But weighing the devastating long term effects needs to be factored in when making decisions. Maybe I am fatalistic or melodramatic, but I think that the chances of doing irrevocable harm due to pro longed lockdown & isolation are much closer than some believe.

Almost 2 months ago I discussed how we were facing a recession if not depression and u pushed back.

What a difference in your tone these days.