Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part X

[Pookie]

thanks. I look forward to looking at some numbers in a few months which show Influenza mortality rates over the past year vs COVID-19 mortality rates vs influenza mortality rates in the past few years.

from what I read these numbers aren’t available for a month or two after the new year has started.

while you look forward to data that you likely won’t understand and misinterpret let me remind you of the differences between the two.

The Flu:

1. Most contagious 3 days after the onset of symptoms.

2. No asymptomatic spread

3. Annual vaccine available taken by 15 million Canadian adults last year

4. Anti-viral therapeutics available

Covid-19

1. Most contagious 3 days BEFORE symptoms emerge

2. One of the only corona viruses to be transmissible in asymptomatic individuals

3. Until a few days ago, no vaccine. No vaccine available for the general public for months

4. Very few treatment options available.

now, we can all wait with baited breath until you review the data or we can just go with what the medical community tells us right now based on all the evidence.... this disease is deadly and has already killed more Canadians than the annual flu and we are not even through a full year.

so respectfully, just stop with the farcical argument.

 

[Pookie]

time for a new police chief. Public trust is a key for that position.

 

[Pookie]

Crazy how Florida is operating as normal and its system is nowhere near collapse while we have draconian mandates here and it’s doom and gloom. Something isn’t right.

Um... this Florida?

On Friday, Florida reported 19,530 new COVID-19 cases, 24 hours after reporting a record high single-day number of COVID-19 cases of 19,816 on Thursday.

Friday’s report by the Florida Department of Health brought the state’s known total of novel coronavirus cases to 1,449,252, the third-highest in the country, after California and Texas, according to the New York Times database of U.S. cases.


https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article248369845.html

or the impact on hospitals? For example in Central Florida:

AdventHealth facilities move to ‘red status’ in response to climbing COVID-19 cases

Maybe, just maybe, Vitamin D is a significant factor here like many have been saying for months now? Our leaders are too busy scratches their asses to even look into it.

florida is the only state in the us with sunshine??

 

[Pookie]

Last post of the night is a commentary. One that I made in the general form (and was mod edited... so within guidelines). In the general forum, there is a thread dedicated to masks......

The sad thing is that we have a thread dedicated to a basic method of health. protection.

There is no hand washing thread.

Whats worse in my opinion, is that this forum, while a place for opinion and debate, is also a searchable content provider.

To allow posts touting insane conspiracy theories and false claims over mask effectiveness is as harmful as the sites which fuelled the events in the USA the other day.

Masks are an important tool in saving lives.

If you doubt that, you are an idiot.

If you actually practice not wearing a mask in real life, you are a selfish idiot.

If you post that, you are fuelling the virus spread and partly responsible for spread of lies that leads to death.

 

[Future]

Um... this Florida?

On Friday, Florida reported 19,530 new COVID-19 cases, 24 hours after reporting a record high single-day number of COVID-19 cases of 19,816 on Thursday.

Friday’s report by the Florida Department of Health brought the state’s known total of novel coronavirus cases to 1,449,252, the third-highest in the country, after California and Texas, according to the New York Times database of U.S. cases.


https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article248369845.html

or the impact on hospitals? For example in Central Florida:

AdventHealth facilities move to ‘red status’ in response to climbing COVID-19 cases



florida is the only state in the us with sunshine??

Please don’t misrepresent what I’m saying. Never said they were doing great. But their approach has been on the opposite end of the spectrum and they haven’t been completely decimated for it. For example, people are partying in packed clubs down there and we can’t go to the gym or eat at a restaurant and we’re over capacity in some areas and they are just now approaching capacity in some areas. I’m only wondering why that may be. It is the Sunshine state after all.

I disagree.

Some people come into this publicly searchable forum to spew dangerous disinformation in the belief that its harmless.

if the events of the USA yesterday taught us anything, these whack job conspiracies are dangerous.

if you write some bs about masks and someone believes it and contributes to the spread.... YOU are culpable.

I don’t need to know anyone’s life story. I do know that if you spew false information, you are dangerous.

I’m not talking about a disagreement about whether a golf course or ski hill should be open. I’m talking about people that deny the severity of the virus. Deny the effectiveness of masks. Promote a murder/herd immunity without vaccine strategy.

YOU are responsible for what you write. and if you write BS conspiracy garbage, you deserve to be challenged and banned in my opinion.

people are dying.

I agree to a certain extent. I personally haven’t seen anyone advocate against wearing a mask or people telling others to refuse the vaccine. If they were, that’s clearly reckless. But from what I’ve seen there are those who may be skeptical, ask questions, present contrary data.... and I think that’s perfectly healthy discussion.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

Please don’t misrepresent what I’m saying. Never said they were doing great. But their approach has been on the opposite end of the spectrum and they haven’t been completely decimated for it. For example, people are partying in packed clubs down there and we can’t go to the gym or eat at a restaurant and we’re over capacity in some areas and they are just now approaching capacity in some areas. I’m only wondering why that may be. It is the Sunshine state after all.

I agree to a certain extent. I personally haven’t seen anyone advocate against wearing a mask or people telling others to refuse the vaccine. If they were, that’s clearly reckless. But from what I’ve seen there are those who may be skeptical, ask questions, present contrary data.... and I think that’s perfectly healthy discussion.

I think a lot of pain is coming in Florida soon

There have definitely been people on this board (and in real life) that have spread misinformation about vaccines and advocated against masks. Very reckless I agree. It's hard for health care providers and scientists to listen/tolerate it, especially since the "data" that is often provided is either false or misrepresented

 

[Pookie]

Please don’t misrepresent what I’m saying. Never said they were doing great. But their approach has been on the opposite end of the spectrum and they haven’t been completely decimated for it. For example, people are partying in packed clubs down there and we can’t go to the gym or eat at a restaurant and we’re over capacity in some areas and they are just now approaching capacity in some areas. I’m only wondering why that may be. It is the Sunshine state after all.



I agree to a certain extent. I personally haven’t seen anyone advocate against wearing a mask or people telling others to refuse the vaccine. If they were, that’s clearly reckless. But from what I’ve seen there are those who may be skeptical, ask questions, present contrary data.... and I think that’s perfectly healthy discussion.

in terms of Florida, there is a history there that might cross political lines to discuss. But suffice to say, reporting actual numbers may be an issue.

Including the ones that I cited which came from the GOP Governor.

It’s seriously nuts in that state right now.

Armed Police Raid Home Of Ousted Data Scientist Who Alleged Covid-19 Data Manipulation In Florida

 

[Crazy Monkey]

in terms of Florida, there is a history there that might cross political lines to discuss. But suffice to say, reporting actual numbers may be an issue.

Including the ones that I cited which came from the GOP Governor.

It’s seriously nuts in that state right now.

Armed Police Raid Home Of Ousted Data Scientist Who Alleged Covid-19 Data Manipulation In Florida

I also wanted to mention data manipulation but didn't have any evidence backing it up (outside of the fact that it would be a very trump/Republican thing to do).

Crazy and not surprising if true

 

[Muston Atthews]

while you look forward to data that you likely won’t understand and misinterpret let me remind you of the differences between the two.

The Flu:

1. Most contagious 3 days after the onset of symptoms.

2. No asymptomatic spread

3. Annual vaccine available taken by 15 million Canadian adults last year

4. Anti-viral therapeutics available

Covid-19

1. Most contagious 3 days BEFORE symptoms emerge

2. One of the only corona viruses to be transmissible in asymptomatic individuals

3. Until a few days ago, no vaccine. No vaccine available for the general public for months

4. Very few treatment options available.

now, we can all wait with baited breath until you review the data or we can just go with what the medical community tells us right now based on all the evidence.... this disease is deadly and has already killed more Canadians than the annual flu and we are not even through a full year.

so respectfully, just stop with the farcical argument.

I wasn’t arguing with anyone. You literally just made up an argument with yourself

Literally no one said this disease isn’t deadly

 

[Muston Atthews]

I agree to a certain extent. I personally haven’t seen anyone advocate against wearing a mask or people telling others to refuse the vaccine. If they were, that’s clearly reckless. But from what I’ve seen there are those who may be skeptical, ask questions, present contrary data.... and I think that’s perfectly healthy discussion.

And if you ask any sort of questions or provide any data that doesn’t align with what certain people think or what they believe you have personally wrapped your hands around their grandmothers throat and ended their life (and grandmas friends too)

 

[Stigma]

I think using the term “both sides of the aisle” is dangerous.

Totally fine with people debating ways to contain viral spread.

But it’s not fine to equate data and science with anti-mask rhetoric.

I believe you didn’t mean the latter.

You're right. I didn't. I probably should have said that I like the diverse opinions on a lot of different matters regarding this topic.

 

[Stigma]

Last post of the night is a commentary. One that I made in the general form (and was mod edited... so within guidelines). In the general forum, there is a thread dedicated to masks......

The sad thing is that we have a thread dedicated to a basic method of health. protection.

There is no hand washing thread.

Whats worse in my opinion, is that this forum, while a place for opinion and debate, is also a searchable content provider.

To allow posts touting insane conspiracy theories and false claims over mask effectiveness is as harmful as the sites which fuelled the events in the USA the other day.

Masks are an important tool in saving lives.

If you doubt that, you are an idiot.

If you actually practice not wearing a mask in real life, you are a selfish idiot.

If you post that, you are fuelling the virus spread and partly responsible for spread of lies that leads to death.

I agree with what you said except the bolded part. This is not the thread to get into this very much, but I just wanted to quickly say that things like that go beyond "conspiracy theories and false claims". There is a natural law component to all of this. Everything in our world has a dynamic between opposing forces.....right down to how you breath (constrict....relax). Reaction and counter reaction. If there's a false claim that hits the mainstream, a non-mainstream false claim will counter it. If lawlessness is weaponized by one side, the same will happen with the other side.

This was inevitable and censoring of information would never have stopped it. In fact, censoring results in exponential growth of the idea being censored. That's why open debate is always the way to go.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

You're right. I didn't. I probably should have said that I like the diverse opinions on a lot of different matters regarding this topic.

Yes and no. Sometimes opinion doesn't matter when there are known facts. Facts are facts

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I think a lot of pain is coming in Florida soon

There have definitely been people on this board (and in real life) that have spread misinformation about vaccines and advocated against masks. Very reckless I agree. It's hard for health care providers and scientists to listen/tolerate it, especially since the "data" that is often provided is either false or misrepresented

Who has done this? Questioning the usefulness of masks is not the same thing as advocating against them. A person can be skeptical of masks while still wearing one themselves and agreeing with following public health orders. I may be wrong but I don't recall anyone outright calling for people to stop wearing masks.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

I wasn’t arguing with anyone. You literally just made up an argument with yourself

Literally no one said this disease isn’t deadly

I'm sure

I post something that is very well known at this point (covid is deadlier than any recent flu)

You proceed to antagonize and ask for a source despite the above being public knowledge

I appropriately direct you to a valid source (CDC)

You once again antagonize the situation "HA so you DONT have a source"

But yes, you did nothing to provoke the situation

 

[Pookie]

I wasn’t arguing with anyone. You literally just made up an argument with yourself

Literally no one said this disease isn’t deadly

Hats off to you for threading the line well between actual discussion and wanting to troll. It will probably antagonize a few while keeping you from getting banned. Which.... sadly seems to be your goal.

In previous posts, you’ve taken the side that is opposite the medical experts in expressing support for defying guidelines to limit households.

for some reason you are pro-business but mock the efforts necessary to keep them open.

you claim to think this is serious while is your go to reply when someone posts information regarding how much more deadlier this is than the flu.

all the while offering no contribution in terms of how to actually have an economic recovery and save lives.

Such an important contribution to this discussion. Aye, be proud mate.

 

[Pookie]

I agree with what you said except the bolded part. This is not the thread to get into this very much, but I just wanted to quickly say that things like that go beyond "conspiracy theories and false claims". There is a natural law component to all of this. Everything in our world has a dynamic between opposing forces.....right down to how you breath (constrict....relax). Reaction and counter reaction. If there's a false claim that hits the mainstream, a non-mainstream false claim will counter it. If lawlessness is weaponized by one side, the same will happen with the other side.

This was inevitable and censoring of information would never have stopped it. In fact, censoring results in exponential growth of the idea being censored. That's why open debate is always the way to go.

fair enough.

and I think there is a place for data driven discussion.

for example, in the early stages there was an expert who publicly commented that he didn’t believe that asymptomatic spread was happening. He based this on 17 years of research with coronavirus.

as time moved on and new research emerged, he followed the data and changed his stance.

however, had he ignored the evidence without cause (ie faulty study design, research sponsored by foxnews, etc) and continued to profess his belief, it then becomes problematic.

too often on this topic, people offer opinions as fact when there is overwhelming evidence that their belief is unfounded.

A steadfast belief in the ineffectiveness of masks or current guidance of global medical experts.

A distrust of medical experts or vaccine advocates.

Accusations that Coroners all over the world are falsifying legal death records and that the death count is being artificially inflated.

A claim that wearing a cloth face covering is the government’s attempt to take away your individual freedoms. Freedoms I suppose also include going to bars and restaurants... ironically which require shoes and shirts for service. (I assume they comply with that one).

Or even a few pages back, the claim that hospitals in Canada are lining their pockets with profit despite the fact that they operate as non-profits and for all intents and purposes are largely run by the government itself in terms of both budget setting and funding.

folks are culpable for their words.

 

[Nineteen67]

I read where some Canadian snowbirds are planning to head to their Florida residences in order to jump the queue and receive their vaccine.
I hope they are turned away at the border.

 

[IPS]

Australia's new mask mandate - you're required to wear a mask in your car!

Millions in Greater Brisbane are donning face masks for the first time — so what are the rules?

Do I really need to wear a mask in the car?

Yes — even if you are alone while driving.
Health Minister Yvette D'Ath said the mask rule also applied to people in cars because health officials wanted to make mask use "as simple as possible for everybody".
"When you leave your household, put it on and keep it on until you get back home … including in the car," she said.
Dr Short agreed.
"I think because of the short timeframe that this has all happened in, we want clear, concise instructions for everyone to follow," she said.

"So if you put on your mask as soon as you leave the front door — no questions, no exceptions, then that's much easier to follow."​

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I read where some Canadian snowbirds are planning to head to their Florida residences in order to jump the queue and receive their vaccine.
I hope they are turned away at the border.

Why and how is that jumping the queue exactly? I don't get it. Our government has completely dropped the ball on vaccine procurement and people want to protect themselves. Plus at that point, they're no longer a risk to anyone else. Why would that bother anyone and isn't that actually helping all Canadians? Sorry, I honestly don't get the issue.

 

[Confucius]

I read where some Canadian snowbirds are planning to head to their Florida residences in order to jump the queue and receive their vaccine.
I hope they are turned away at the border.

Yeah I heard that as well, the Americans are treating the snowbirds the same as the citizens. Pretty cool.

 

[Confucius]

Why and how is that jumping the queue exactly? I don't get it. Our government has completely dropped the ball on vaccine procurement and people want to protect themselves. Plus at that point, they're no longer a risk to anyone else. Why would that bother anyone and isn't that actually helping all Canadians? Sorry, I honestly don't get the issue.

you can get a vaccine there, apparently right now. while it may take years for the general population to get a shot in Canada.

 

[Nineteen67]

Why and how is that jumping the queue exactly? I don't get it. Our government has completely dropped the ball on vaccine procurement and people want to protect themselves. Plus at that point, they're no longer a risk to anyone else. Why would that bother anyone and isn't that actually helping all Canadians? Sorry, I honestly don't get the issue.

They have a hierarchy of who gets vaccinated, health care workers, emergency workers, 75+, 65+ , chronic conditions, etc.... Having people from other countries come in and get vaccinated ahead of the citizens and current residence is jumping the queue. Retired, 65+ yr old Canadians, currently living in Canada, should not be getting vaccinated in Florida.

 

[Confucius]

They have a hierarchy of who gets vaccinated, health care workers, emergency workers, 75+, 65+ , chronic conditions, etc.... Having people from other countries come in and get vaccinated ahead of the citizens and current residence is jumping the queue. Retired, 65+ yr old Canadians, currently living in Canada, should not be getting vaccinated in Florida.

If they spend their winters there, why not would you rather have them spreading covid around?

 

[Muston Atthews]

Hats off to you for threading the line well between actual discussion and wanting to troll. It will probably antagonize a few while keeping you from getting banned. Which.... sadly seems to be your goal.

In previous posts, you’ve taken the side that is opposite the medical experts in expressing support for defying guidelines to limit households.

for some reason you are pro-business but mock the efforts necessary to keep them open.

you claim to think this is serious while is your go to reply when someone posts information regarding how much more deadlier this is than the flu.

all the while offering no contribution in terms of how to actually have an economic recovery and save lives.

Such an important contribution to this discussion. Aye, be proud mate.

Again, you made that entire post up. I most certainly wear a mask more than you on a daily and weekly basis. I keep my distance. I never once expressed desire to defy guidelines for private gatherings.

I laugh when I ask someone for a source for a claim theyre making and they make it so difficult for such a simple request. I laugh when people jump to assuming I do this or that because I don’t just take things at face value or want to look further into what they’re looking at.

Would I rather not have to wear a mask, watch small businesses close down and not see my grandmother for a year? Yes. Do I still do them? Yes.

Hats off to you for being in a position in your life where you have enough money to not have to worry about losing your job/business and where you can sit from atop your high horse and make assumptions about people who don’t agree exactly with how you think things should be done.

Hats off to you for only being concerned about ski hills being closed.

What really is laughable is you being completely wrong about everything you’ve said I do/have done in your last two posts directed at me. And you want to call me a troll