Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part X

[Confucius]

Looks like everyone is waking up and starting to counter the disinformation spread by people like Pookie.

500 scientists have signed a letter sent to government officials about the airborne/aerosol spread of covid. The letter specifically mentions the importance of c-95 masks because other masks aren't effective at stopping aerosol spread. There should also be a much bigger emphasis on ventilation. Of course, masks help with droplets, and covid also spreads via droplets, so they help a little (as I've long been saying). But they argue that too many are ignoring the science about just how greatly covid spreads via airborne aerosols too small to be stopped by cloth/surgical masks.

I know they mean well, but people exaggerating/lying about mask effectiveness puts people in danger.

Globe and mail article:Scientists call on Canada to refocus efforts on addressing airborne spread of COVID-19

Letter itself:Time for government to take aerosol transmission of COVID-19 seriously | Ricochet

Well who is going to buy all the masks that aren't N95 quality the government has asked businesses to manufacture or even ordered?

 

[Confucius]

Society has chosen they don’t want to lockdown with private gatherings exploding the spread

might as well open everything back up... at least indoor dining can keep those socially distant for those who want to meet for dinner

It always should have been all or nothing. If it was all, many small businesses would survive since the product would have to be purchased someday. The way it is now the product gets purchased and the closed business never has a shot at those sales.

 

[Scion]

Calls out mental gymnastics and false equivalences.... Compares Covid to World War II.

I thought we crushed the Nazis to maintain 'first world entitlements', otherwise known as basic rights and freedoms?

Sometimes it's better to leave people like that to themselves.

 

[Sens]

Three more uk cases in Ontario

safe to say it’s here

 

[Confucius]

Three more uk cases in Ontario

safe to say it’s here

if we cant contain 6 cases whats the chances of controlling 3,000 new cases a day?

 

[Scion]

Also just a real life example id like to share:

I am lucky enough to own a large medical business (40 employees) that has been able to make it through covid. In jan 2019 when we would put a sales job posting of roughly 60k salary, we would maybe get 30 applicants in 2 weeks. Fast forward to now, I just posted the same position 2 weeks ago, and we received 485 applicants in 36 hours. Honestly it is beyond depressing, we have people who we haven’t called showing up at our office begging for a chance just to make a living for their families. People calling us constantly, people willing to work for free for a chance. It absolutely breaks my heart. These people don’t want a handout, they just want to work. Im obviously not in a position to hire them all, but for people who aren’t entrepreneurs, you guys need to understand how hard it really is out there for people. These lockdowns are the most destructive forms of action you can do to society at large. And for what positives????????????

That is sad, thanks for sharing Mike.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

if we cant contain 6 cases whats the chances of controlling 3,000 new cases a day?

This may be a naive question, but what is it in the swab that's being tested that differentiates the "regular" COVID strain from this new variant in a person?

 

[HolyCrap]

Ordering takeout food is basically snubbing your nose at the situation, just because it's allowed, it doesn't make it right. People go to work risking their lives on public transit and at their workplace, just so you can have a pizza.

Some of us have to. I’m on the road for work and stay over in hotels. I have to use skip the dishes or curb side pickup. I think getting groceries in a packed Walmart is higher risk than me ordering a curb side pickup from a restaurant.

 

[Pookie]

You're comparing lockdowns with just "doing nothing". I'm not suggesting "doing nothing". I'm saying that the $240 billion spent on silliness should have been entirely focused on protecting the vulnerable and ltc facilities. 240 billion freaking dollars. Couldn't they create hubs? Get n-95 masks to everyone in these facilities? Workers quarantine before entering the hub? If we can create such hubs for hockey teams (that worked), we couldn't do it to save the freaking vulnerable? Let's not underestimate just how much money $240 billion is.

Umm... no you can't create hubs for 2,039 Long Term Care homes situated across the Country.

 

[Pookie]

Also just a real life example id like to share:

I am lucky enough to own a large medical business (40 employees) that has been able to make it through covid. In jan 2019 when we would put a sales job posting of roughly 60k salary, we would maybe get 30 applicants in 2 weeks. Fast forward to now, I just posted the same position 2 weeks ago, and we received 485 applicants in 36 hours. Honestly it is beyond depressing, we have people who we haven’t called showing up at our office begging for a chance just to make a living for their families. People calling us constantly, people willing to work for free for a chance. It absolutely breaks my heart. These people don’t want a handout, they just want to work. Im obviously not in a position to hire them all, but for people who aren’t entrepreneurs, you guys need to understand how hard it really is out there for people. These lockdowns are the most destructive forms of action you can do to society at large. And for what positives????????????

It's a sad story. I know what it's like to lose a job with a mortgage and car payments. It absolutely sucks.

It's being done to save lives.

We have a similar issue with our distribution warehouse. We have a lot of openings as a number of our staff are leaving for Amazon. Still, the number of applications far exceeds the opportunity.

Recessions/Depressions are never easy. At least this one has a cause, mitigation efforts we can make and a vaccine that is going into arms. Hopefully, not much longer.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Umm... no you can't create hubs for 2,039 Long Term Care homes situated across the Country.

They can't? But they can shut down the whole economy and give out cerb payments? You're dramatically underestimating just how much $240 billion is. They could EASILY create a hub type scenario to keep these people safe.

Given $240 billion, I'm pretty sure they can come up with some strategy to protect these people other than (lol) shutting down the entire economy. Doesn't necessarily have to be hubs.

 

[Pookie]

Society has chosen they don’t want to lockdown with private gatherings exploding the spread

might as well open everything back up... at least indoor dining can keep those socially distant for those who want to meet for dinner

Canadians prefer strict lockdowns over partial shutdowns for hard-hit regions: Nanos survey

December 15th -
The survey, conducted by Nanos Research and commissioned by CTV News, asked more than 1,000 Canadians how they think spiralling caseloads should be handled in parts of the country experiencing the highest spread.

Fifty-five per cent of respondents supported a “very strict” lockdown that involved closing all but the most essential parts of the economy in order to manage the spread, while 39 per cent preferred keeping the economy partially open and allowing the virus to “run its course.” Another six per cent said they were unsure.

 

[Sens]

Canadians prefer strict lockdowns over partial shutdowns for hard-hit regions: Nanos survey

December 15th -
The survey, conducted by Nanos Research and commissioned by CTV News, asked more than 1,000 Canadians how they think spiralling caseloads should be handled in parts of the country experiencing the highest spread.

Fifty-five per cent of respondents supported a “very strict” lockdown that involved closing all but the most essential parts of the economy in order to manage the spread, while 39 per cent preferred keeping the economy partially open and allowing the virus to “run its course.” Another six per cent said they were unsure.

Toronto has been on lockdown since November and cases are exploding across the province

numbers speak for themselves

 

[Pookie]

They can't? But they can shut down the whole economy and give out cerb payments?

No... logistically you cannot build 2,039 physical hubs, staff and enforce the measures in the span of 2-3 weeks.

You're dramatically underestimating just how much $240 billion is. They could EASILY create a hub type scenario to keep these people safe.

NBA 'bubble' cost over $150 million - report

"The cost of restarting the NBA season in a campus environment in an attempt to ensure safety is over $150 million, ESPN reported on Wednesday."

And that was for a short period of time.

For for $240 billion, you would fall 400 hubs short of your goal IF the Hubs only lasted a few weeks.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I eagerly await to see what new restrictions we'll have in order to offset the Covid cases brought back from the Caribbean courtesy of our elected officials.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

if we cant contain 6 cases whats the chances of controlling 3,000 new cases a day?

It is not 6 cases or even 3,000 cases ... da numbers are much higher ... people without symptoms don't even bother to get tested ... who knows what they really are and who even cares about them TBH ... i wish total focus was on hospitalizations and ICU cases but we are too scared to deal with da truth and reality ... even masks i mean who knows if they even work ... i wish we knew by now why some people get it and have no symptoms ... now we are learning people who had chicken pox have an almost zero percent chance of getting really sick as they have da positive antibody and people who had chicken pox and mumps at same time have zero percent chance of symptoms as they have both positive and negative antibody so even if they have COVID they have it they can't transmit it to anyone either ... but this is all very early learning stuff as buddy was flown by FDA to Cleveland Clinic last week between holidays for his blood plasma with chicken pox and mumps at same time ... it is all too new and we are figuring things out on da fly here

 

[Throw More Waffles]

No... logistically you cannot build 2,039 physical hubs, staff and enforce the measures in the span of 2-3 weeks.

They've... uh... had 8 months... and $240 billion at their disposal. And they don't need 2000 hubs. Not nearly that many.

 

[Pookie]

Toronto has been on lockdown since November and cases are exploding across the province

numbers speak for themselves

Likely because people in Toronto travelled. My point was to highlight that your opinion regarding acceptance of a lockdown wasn't the majority

 

[Confucius]

Toronto has been on lockdown since November and cases are exploding across the province

numbers speak for themselves

Toronto is far from a Strict lockdown, If one wanted to, You can go public skating, go the beer store, order Pizza, Coffee, Chinese food etc, Ride the subway and buses allday if you like. Kids will be back at school soon, and the mailman will deliver your flyers everyday.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Toronto is far from a Strict lockdown, If one wanted to, You can go public skating, go the beer store, order Pizza, Coffee, Chinese food etc, Ride the subway and buses allday if you like. Kids will be back at school soon, and the mailman will deliver your flyers everyday.

In anticipation for tonight's game, I found out today the LCBO is closed Monday and has been for months, shows what I know. Had to walk next door to superstore to buy my beer. Not sure what closing Monday is supposed to accomplish, but whatever, lock 'er up.

 

[Pookie]

They've... uh... had 8 months... and $240 billion at their disposal. And they don't need 2000 hubs. Not nearly that many.

You still want to go on about this silly hub business?

You can't have people in a hub traveling to other LTC homes. And LTC homes are spread out in thousands of cities across the country.

And of course the NBA hubs didn't have a total of 780,000 workers in it... so we've got to factor that in.

And child care for the workers in this hub... how's that going to work for the single parents for what... a year, maybe 2? Will there be day care in the hubs? Or teachers for school age kids? Will the teachers and day care providers also be in this hub or another hub? Can't have them bringing Covid into the hub, or else what's the point of the hub right?

Or will the single parents just not see their kids for a year or 2?

And without daily rapid tests, how will you know that anyone in the hub.... oh wait... i guess we will need people to service these hubs to get them groceries, do laundry, provide security... how do we know all of these people... close to a million now... how do we know that they are covid free?

That's a million tests. And I'm not even counting residents. Every day. Assuming of course that they are Rapid tests as they would have to be if you have outsiders coming in to the hub.

Well good news is that on Nov 24th, Ontario bought 98,000 of these Rapid tests.... whoops a bit short there. We could test about 10% of our hub for one day.

Brilliant plan. It's really a shame that the government did not go forward with this idea.

 

[Peggy]

I’m disappointed ski hills are closed.

but I accept it as necessary.

not a single word of what I wrote is how you spun it.

wear a mask. Stay home. And if you can’t do either.... volunteer to get Covid so we can study you.

It's not necessary if Ski Hills are low risk for spread. None of this lock down is necessary and doesn't help.. but sure cuck along

 

[Pookie]

It's not necessary if Ski Hills are low risk for spread. None of this lock down is necessary and doesn't help.. but sure cuck along

I'm fine with saving lives... you aren't?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You still want to go on about this silly hub business?

You can't have people in a hub traveling to other LTC homes. And LTC homes are spread out in thousands of city's across the country.

And of course the NBA hubs didn't have a total of 780,000 workers in it... so we've got to factor that in.

And child care for the workers in this hub... how's that going to work for the single parents for what... a year, maybe 2? Will there be day care in the hubs? Or teachers for school age kids? Or will their single parents not see their kids for a year or 2?

And without daily rapid tests, how will you know that anyone in the hub.... or wait... i guess we will need people to service these hubs to get them groceries, do laundry, provide security... how do we know all of these people... close to a million now... how do we know that they are covid free?

That's a million tests. And I'm not even counting residents. Every day. Assuming of course that they are Rapid tests as they would have to be if you have outsiders coming in to the hub.

Well good news is that on Nov 24th, Ontario bought 98,000 of these Rapid tests.... whoops a bit short there. We could test about 10% of our hub for one day.

Brilliant plan.

One nursing home bubble wouldn't be as big as the entirety of the nba and organizing actual games and all that. It doesn't have to be 2000 bubbles.

This is so silly. "It would be too complicate to use $240 billion and protect the elderly... so we'll just shut the entire non-essential economy down for months and months. That won't be complicated."

And it doesn't even have to be bubbles. $240 billion to protect the elderly... I'm sure they could come up with all sorts of solutions that are better than (lol) shutting down the entire economy.

 

[Peggy]

I'm fine with saving lives... you aren't?

"Saving lives" saved that sanctimonious bs for someone else..

More people killed themselves in one month in Japan than anyone died from covid in the entire year. Did closing ski resorts save their lives?