Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part X

[DaWatcher]

I give you a 10 for the mental gymnastics to make that false equivalency.


US has 4x as many cases as do. Cases are independent of health indicators.

And before you look up your expected talking point, US recommends testing only in the presence of symptoms.

higher testing rate = more symptoms in the population



So your life is not normal because you can’t take a European vacation?

On your next one, visit some war memorials and learn how people lived underground for years to escape nightly bombings or in attics to escape death squads.

your cited inconvenience is a petty example of first world entitlement.

btw, my kids were in school up till today. If you help stop the spread and the numbers go down, they will be back in on Jan 25.

over to you s

Calls out mental gymnastics and false equivalences.... Compares Covid to World War II.

I thought we crushed the Nazis to maintain 'first world entitlements', otherwise known as basic rights and freedoms?

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

I've already posted it twice. Ontario's ICU admission rates this year are actually slightly down. It's true.

Really? Is that because in the past people were admitted to the ICU and then left quicker, where as with Covid people stay in the ICU for several months?

 

[IPS]

So you were worried about this last year when ICUs were just as stressed, right? And the year before that? And the year before that, etc., etc.? A lot of people seem to have had their come-to-Jesus moment this year about ICUs. Good to see.

2020 was the year of everybody becoming hospital capacity experts. Too bad they never showed up in 2018 when the flu season was reeking havoc on hospitals.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Really? Is that because in the past people were admitted to the ICU and then left quicker, where as with Covid people stay in the ICU for several months?

Dunno, there are likely many reasons due to these unprecedented times but, yes, really.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Well you aren’t allowed to go and sit and eat so I’m not sure what you are on about.

In Ontario, take out, drive through or delivery only.

you want to go to your sister’s for drive through?

Not where I currently live (BC).

I can do what I said. Hang out in coffee shops/restaurants all day long no problem. But I am committing a crime if I sit outside on my sister's patio and have a coffee with her. Do you think that makes sense? If not, then you no longer trust our elected officials and health experts? You conspiracy nut, you.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

97% of deaths are elderly. 75% of deaths came from long term care facilities.

Maybe... just MAYBE... this should have been approached differently. All the outrageous money spent on this so far should have been spent on protecting ltc facilities and the elderly. Get all the n-95 masks to them (you know... the masks that actually work). Make more if you need to. Imagine going to expert health officials and say "Here's $240 billion. Protect the ltc facilities". Imagine how much they could accomplish. Imagine how much FEWER deaths there would have been. How does it make any freaking sense to shut down the entire economy in order to protect ltc facilities and the elderly?

Preventing me from watching the hockey game with my friends is accomplishing f all in protecting the elderly at ltc facilities. Telling us that the only safe places from covid are inside lobby mega-influential corporations... how did you all fall for this?

 

[Pookie]

97% of deaths are elderly. 75% of deaths came from long term care facilities.

Maybe... just MAYBE... this should have been approached differently. All the outrageous money spent on this so far should have been spent on protecting ltc facilities and the elderly. Get all the n-95 masks to them (you know... the masks that actually work). Make more if you need to. Imagine going to expert health officials and say "Here's $240 billion. Protect the ltc facilities". Imagine how much they could accomplish. Imagine how much FEWER deaths there would have been. How does it make any freaking sense to shut down the entire economy in order to protect ltc facilities and the elderly?

Preventing me from watching the hockey game with my friends is accomplishing f all in protecting the elderly at ltc facilities. Telling us that the only safe places from covid are inside lobby mega-influential corporations... how did you all fall for this?

Strawman = shut down of the entire economy?

Your home is a "lobby mega influential" corporation?

 

[Pookie]

Calls out mental gymnastics and false equivalences.... Compares Covid to World War II.

I thought we crushed the Nazis to maintain 'first world entitlements', otherwise known as basic rights and freedoms?

You understand there is a Quarantine Act right?

Adopted in 1872 here in the Dominion of Canada. And part of the basic rights and freedoms that you are referencing?

psst... what was your nickname before you "joined" in July?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Strawman = shut down of the entire economy?

Your home is a "lobby mega influential" corporation?

Yes, the "safe" places are my home and lobbying mega-influential corporations. It's bewildering that you seem to think this all makes sense.

How is closing some stores and forcing curbside pickups protecting all the elderly dying in ltc facilities? How does this make any freaking sense whatsoever? Shouldn't we have just kept everything open and spent the $240 billion on actually helping those vulnerable? It's insane that those that succumbed to the fear-mongering think they're the voices of reason. It's absolutely bonkers.

 

[Pookie]

What 'mental gymnastics'? I was simply stating the fact that many people weren't taking the virus seriously at the very beginning. Do we not remember the pandering that our politicians here did before they took the virus more seriously?

I'd give you the next President's actual tweet on travel bans but that would cross political rules here. Suffice to say, you are incorrect.

And hosting large gatherings, telling people not to wear masks, hiding the truth from them is exactly what you advocated our politicians do and they are suffering worse for it.

Sure. Adding massive debt to the nation and destroying many people's ability to earn a living and causing people's businesses' to go backrupt or take a severe hit that they've poured their money and effort into are all 'minor inconveniences and 1st world entitlement'. I wonder if you'd say the same if you owned a business that you were in danger of losing if not already lost?

No. I said you complaining about not being able to take a European Vacation as evidence as to how your life is not back to normal is first world entitlement.

I gave you an open question. You went with not being able to take a European Vacation.

 

[Pookie]

Yes, the "safe" places are my home and lobbying mega-influential corporations. It's bewildering that you seem to think this all makes sense.

How is closing some stores and forcing curbside pickups protecting all the elderly dying in ltc facilities? How does this make any freaking sense whatsoever? Shouldn't we have just kept everything open and spent the $240 billion on actually helping those vulnerable? It's insane that those that succumbed to the fear-mongering think they're the voices of reason. It's absolutely bonkers.

Well you see, when nothing was restricted... elderly were dying in LTC facilities because the hundreds of thousands of workers that work in their facilities were in the community getting Covid.

Let's see if you can draw any connection between these 2 things:

1. Cases in Ontario

2.. November 2nd: Ford government to ease COVID-19 restrictions as Ontario posts record 1,050 cases


In terms of isolating LTC....
As already pointed out to you, there were no rapid tests available and the first one was rolled out last month. Takes time to develop an accurate test and then produce it when you have a new virus. They protected them by trying to stop community spread.

That's what they did with Stage 1 restrictions.

 

[stealth1]

In other news looks like of you do travel outside of Canada, on top of having to quarantine upon return, they are also looking at taking away you eligibility for the $500 a week fund for those who have to quarantine. This is great news if it does go through.

"Ottawa 'actively looking' into loophole that allows quarantining travellers to get sickness benefit" https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5860020

 

[DaWatcher]

You understand there is a Quarantine Act right?

Adopted in 1872 here in the Dominion of Canada. And part of the basic rights and freedoms that you are referencing?

psst... what was your nickname before you "joined" in July?

I don't rely on man made documents to give me my rights and freedoms.

 

[Pookie]

I don't rely on man made documents to give me my rights and freedoms.

Obviously not.

But considering it's the law of the land... perhaps another land would be more to your liking if you don't accept what's in our Charter.

 

[Pookie]

In other news looks like of you do travel outside of Canada, on top of having to quarantine upon return, they are also looking at taking away you eligibility for the $500 a week fund for those who have to quarantine. This is great news if it does go through.

"Ottawa 'actively looking' into loophole that allows quarantining travellers to get sickness benefit" https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5860020

Excellent.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Well you see, when nothing was restricted... elderly were dying in LTC facilities because the hundreds of thousands of workers that work in their facilities were in the community getting Covid.

Let's see if you can draw any connection between these 2 things:

1. Cases in Ontario

2.. November 2nd: Ford government to ease COVID-19 restrictions as Ontario posts record 1,050 cases


In terms of isolating LTC....
As already pointed out to you, there were no rapid tests available and the first one was rolled out last month. Takes time to develop an accurate test and then produce it when you have a new virus. They protected them by trying to stop community spread.

That's what they did with Stage 1 restrictions.

You're comparing lockdowns with just "doing nothing". I'm not suggesting "doing nothing". I'm saying that the $240 billion spent on silliness should have been entirely focused on protecting the vulnerable and ltc facilities. 240 billion freaking dollars. Couldn't they create hubs? Get n-95 masks to everyone in these facilities? Workers quarantine before entering the hub? If we can create such hubs for hockey teams (that worked), we couldn't do it to save the freaking vulnerable? Let's not underestimate just how much money $240 billion is.

 

[Jojalu]

You're comparing lockdowns with just "doing nothing". I'm not suggesting "doing nothing". I'm saying that the $240 billion spent on silliness should have been entirely focused on protecting the vulnerable and ltc facilities. 240 billion freaking dollars. Couldn't they create hubs? Get n-95 masks to everyone in these facilities? Workers quarantine before entering the hub? If we can create such hubs for hockey teams (that worked), we couldn't do it to save the freaking vulnerable? Let's not underestimate just how much money $240 billion is.

I believe it was the wise sage Dwight Schrute who said "Money hasn't been real since we left the gold standard"

I do know that it is going to be a painful process recovering from what the world has spent so far. Curious to see how rhey will prevent deflation turning into inflation

 

[JT AM da real deal]

You're comparing lockdowns with just "doing nothing". I'm not suggesting "doing nothing". I'm saying that the $240 billion spent on silliness should have been entirely focused on protecting the vulnerable and ltc facilities. 240 billion freaking dollars. Couldn't they create hubs? Get n-95 masks to everyone in these facilities? Workers quarantine before entering the hub? If we can create such hubs for hockey teams (that worked), we couldn't do it to save the freaking vulnerable? Let's not underestimate just how much money $240 billion is.

You know da truth there is a reason why we have not properly funded/built LTC's and hospitals in Canada past 50 years ... we pay lip service to health care funding but we don't truly care about da elderly ... so better make sure you are wealthy and can fund yourself in Canada by travelling to US for healthcare ... it is very expensive but very good ... and it is getting worse by da day here ... da best docs and nurses leave for good reason

 

[Mikeyg]

Honestly it might sound sad but at this point im fully anticipating a 2 to 3 year economic downturn after covid passes. I think these pro lockdown people are going to be eating a lot of shit when they have to answer for the record evictions, divorce, suicide, and joblessness to come. It’s ridiculous that the people in government who are making all these rules that hurt young/middle aged canadians are the ones who are really abusing their diplomatic status to break the rules they sign off on.

yes, the 80+ demographics that are dying in care homes is very sad, but to torch the future of the entire rest of the population is insanity imo. Why isn’t it socially acceptable to blame the nurses in these retirement homes for causing this spread? If the majority of covid deaths are associated with these retirement homes, why can’t they just be sealed off, while the rest of us get back to work???????

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I believe it was the wise sage Dwight Schrute who said "Money hasn't been real since we left the gold standard"

I do know that it is going to be a painful process recovering from what the world has spent so far. Curious to see how rhey will prevent deflation turning into inflation

Interest rates are lowest ever and dropping into negative territory soon ... maybe 2-3 years left before it has to turn around ... but in meantime CDN $$$ keeps going up relative to US $$$ during COVID ... it will be hard for Canadians to take $$$ out of their banks but it will occur as can't see Canadians paying $$$ every month to safe storage it ... it is why real estate keeps soaring

 

[Mikeyg]

Also just a real life example id like to share:

I am lucky enough to own a large medical business (40 employees) that has been able to make it through covid. In jan 2019 when we would put a sales job posting of roughly 60k salary, we would maybe get 30 applicants in 2 weeks. Fast forward to now, I just posted the same position 2 weeks ago, and we received 485 applicants in 36 hours. Honestly it is beyond depressing, we have people who we haven’t called showing up at our office begging for a chance just to make a living for their families. People calling us constantly, people willing to work for free for a chance. It absolutely breaks my heart. These people don’t want a handout, they just want to work. Im obviously not in a position to hire them all, but for people who aren’t entrepreneurs, you guys need to understand how hard it really is out there for people. These lockdowns are the most destructive forms of action you can do to society at large. And for what positives????????????

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Looks like everyone is waking up and starting to counter the disinformation spread by people like Pookie.

500 scientists have signed a letter sent to government officials about the airborne/aerosol spread of covid. The letter specifically mentions the importance of c-95 masks because other masks aren't effective at stopping aerosol spread. There should also be a much bigger emphasis on ventilation. Of course, masks help with droplets, and covid also spreads via droplets, so they help a little (as I've long been saying). But they argue that too many are ignoring the science about just how greatly covid spreads via airborne aerosols too small to be stopped by cloth/surgical masks.

I know they mean well, but people exaggerating/lying about mask effectiveness puts people in danger.

Globe and mail article:Scientists call on Canada to refocus efforts on addressing airborne spread of COVID-19

Letter itself:Time for government to take aerosol transmission of COVID-19 seriously | Ricochet

 

[Confucius]

The bottom line, the government doesn't spend enough on healthcare, in order to come away looking somewhat competent they are asking people to not get sick. Lock yourselves away.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Honestly it might sound sad but at this point im fully anticipating a 2 to 3 year economic downturn after covid passes. I think these pro lockdown people are going to be eating a lot of shit when they have to answer for the record evictions, divorce, suicide, and joblessness to come. It’s ridiculous that the people in government who are making all these rules that hurt young/middle aged canadians are the ones who are really abusing their diplomatic status to break the rules they sign off on.

yes, the 80+ demographics that are dying in care homes is very sad, but to torch the future of the entire rest of the population is insanity imo. Why isn’t it socially acceptable to blame the nurses in these retirement homes for causing this spread? If the majority of covid deaths are associated with these retirement homes, why can’t they just be sealed off, while the rest of us get back to work???????

I've been saying that the $240 billion spent on silly ways to fight covid should have been focused entirely on protecting the elderly and vulnerable. Create hubs, extra testing, n-95 masks, etc.

It's strange how many people are so eager to defend the system... as though questioning it in any capacity turns you into a covid denying conspiracy theorist.

 

[Sens]

Society has chosen they don’t want to lockdown with private gatherings exploding the spread

might as well open everything back up... at least indoor dining can keep those socially distant for those who want to meet for dinner