Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part VIII - The Long Winter is Here

[Muston Atthews]

York and Windsor getting a full lockdown. because, you know, it’s obviously helped Toronto and Peel. They haven’t been getting record cases since locking everything down

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Only a matter of time until this comes here to Halton.

That's right did you know Brampton ambulances are taking Brampton's sick to Halton hospitals for past few days .... it is only a short time before your health care people and then people in that northern area start to get big numbers of cases ... i mean like half of Brampton either had it or has it ... your chances of getting it up there are ridiculously high

 

[4thline]

"Covid projections are fear mongering" - Could kill more than 350,000

"We are going to destroy our economy and reach unpayable debt levels" - Canada has reached 1 trillion in debt with no end in sight. 10s of thousands of businesses destroyed and counting.

"Greatest wealth transfer in history" - Amazon, Costco, Walmart record profits.

"Quarantine facilities"

"The great (global) reset"

""Mandatory vaccines/ immunization passports"

Snitch lines (reporting neighbors), tracking apps all predicted as well.

These are off the top of my head. They were all deemed conspiracies. Even "it's not going to be just 2 weeks" was considered conspiracy talk when this all began. We are now over 9 months in (due to non-compliant super spreaders).

A. Worst case scenario if no intervention, at a time with significantly less data. That it didn't happen is not proof of a conspiracy because for one we did intervene in a big way, and B. it turned out to be less lethal than initially thought.

B. Not a conspiracy? And also not something that people disputed would happen.

C. American. Check out the TSX 60.

D. Not a conspiracy, just an open ended blog post about a reasonable measure

E. Discussed in previous threads, misinterpretation of a fairly generic an inoffensive statement

F. Not a conspiracy, and not really a contested prediction, the majority of the population is in favour


The aspects were never deemed conspiracies. The mockery for conspiracy comes in at the idea that this is an engineered event by a global cabal with nefarious purposes.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Yup. And my wife works retail at the mall, and by all accounts will be losing her job as a result. Merry Christmas to us.

Hopefully it is just temporary for the duration of the lockdown and she gets called back when we get out of it, whenever that is.

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully it will be temporary.

I guess if any of us need to do any last minute shopping in person for the holidays, there's always Bradford which is not too far but technically in Simcoe County.

 

[waingr0]

The aspects were never deemed conspiracies. The mockery for conspiracy comes in at the idea that this is an engineered event by a global cabal with nefarious purposes.

Yes they were. Any skepticism going against the covid narrative have all been deemed conspiracies. It is still happening. As for your second line I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But even if it's proven to be true, you'll claim it as misinformation.

 

[Stigma]

Why is always all or nothing? History books do show many conspiracies perpetuated by those with power and wealth wanting to maintain power and/or control those who are threats to their wealth or power. That said, yes, flat-earth type of theories are ridiculous.

I don't think stating that there are no conspiracies makes one look logical and reasonable at all. It's just the mirror image of those who think everything is Illuminati-controlled. You have to integrate both left- and right-brain thought to get a clearer picture of how things really are.

 

[Muston Atthews]

A. Worst case scenario if no intervention, at a time with significantly less data. That it didn't happen is not proof of a conspiracy because for one we did intervene in a big way, and B. it turned out to be less lethal than initially thought.

B. Not a conspiracy? And also not something that people disputed would happen.

C. American. Check out the TSX 60.

D. Not a conspiracy, just an open ended blog post about a reasonable measure

E. Discussed in previous threads, misinterpretation of a fairly generic an inoffensive statement

F. Not a conspiracy, and not really a contested prediction, the majority of the population is in favour


[The aspects were never deemed conspiracies. The mockery for conspiracy comes in at the idea that this is an engineered event by a global cabal with nefarious purposes.

There absolutely are conspiracy theories that don’t involve a global cabal. And a lot of people were mocked for saying those types of things in his post in the past.

you’re basically saying none of things were conspiracy theories because they turned out to be true/you have always agreed with them

I have never pushed any of these theories however vaccination passports was most certainly considered a conspiracy theory months and and were looking straight at it now

 

[4thline]

Yes they were. Any skepticism going against the covid narrative have all been deemed conspiracies. It is still happening. As for your second line I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But even if it's proven to be true, you'll claim it as misinformation.

The country whose citizens have been hit hardest by this
The country whose government had the most lax response
The country that had the most "free thinking skeptics" flaunting safety measures
The country that has seen the greatest transfer of wealth to corporate oligarchs

All the same place. It's not here, and it's not the EU.

Reconcile that into your theories.

 

[waingr0]

The country whose citizens have been hit hardest by this
The country whose government had the most lax response
The country that had the most "free thinking skeptics" flaunting safety measures
The country that has seen the greatest transfer of wealth to corporate oligarchs

All the same place. It's not here, and it's not the EU.

Reconcile that into your theories.

You don't find it a little bit odd that India, Africa...etc have all handled covid better than the States?

 

[Muston Atthews]

Toronto has 469 new cases and Peel 386, almost a month after it’s been completely locked down. But let’s lock York down! Lockdowns obviously work. It’s those damn small establishments

 

[4thline]

you’re basically saying none of things were conspiracy theories because they turned out to be true/you have always agreed with them

I'm saying none of them were conspiracy theories because non of them were. A conspiracy requires purpose and intent.

The "whats" on that list didn't get people mocked, it was the misrepresentation of those "whats" and ridiculous "whys"

 

[Muston Atthews]

The country whose citizens have been hit hardest by this
The country whose government had the most lax response
The country that had the most "free thinking skeptics" flaunting safety measures
The country that has seen the greatest transfer of wealth to corporate oligarchs

All the same place. It's not here, and it's not the EU.

Reconcile that into your theories.

sweden?

 

[justashadowof]

I figured you would not answer the why question. I believe what the vast majority of people believe, not foolish BS. Conspiracy theorists have been around for a long time and history reveals just how silly they are.

"Conspiracy" is yet another bad faith smear/dismissal word. The term "conspiracy theorist" is used like there is no such thing as real conspiracies which is patently false. For example, the accepted narrative about 9/11 was a conspiracy between a dozen or so people with no national ties.

I get it, I used to be a full-fledged credulity merchant as well. Surely, I thought there really isn't a meeting at some secret camp in Northern California of the most powerful people in the world where they do a mock sacrifice to a pagan god, that's completely crazy. Turns out it's undeniably true: google Bohemian Grove. Surely, there wasn't some island where the world's elite including royalty and presidents were flown to canoodle with underage individuals. Surely, those rumours I heard about Bill Cosby from peripheral entertainment people in the 1980's (yes it was that long ago) were just smears of bigots (I thought), it would have required a conspiracy of hundreds of people to cover all of that up. Surely, the caricature of the Hollywood casting couch was just something bitter failed actors and actresses spread, imagine how many people it takes to cover that up. Surely, the church of my youth wouldn't conspire to hide serial sexual abuse worldwide, that's simply hateful smears.

 

[Muston Atthews]

I'm saying none of them were conspiracy theories because non of them were. A conspiracy requires purpose and intent.

The "whats" on that list didn't get people mocked, it was the misrepresentation of those "whats" and ridiculous "whys"

So because the purpose and intent are not clear to you yet they’re not considered conspiracy theories?

I’m sure those looking at the MK Ultra trials didn’t understand the purpose or intent at first either. I’m not comparing the two I’m merely pointing out that just because the intent or purpose is not comprehended by you at this point in time does not mean there isn’t one there

 

[4thline]

You don't find it a little bit odd that India, Africa...etc have all handled covid better than the States?

India somewhat, but "finding something a little bit odd" isn't really a barometer for any level of discourse.
Africa is perfectly expected. Low level both inter and intra population mobility = less spread.

But you missed the point. If the whole focus of the conspiracy that the moneyed elite are using it to seize power and wealth through draconian measures, why did the most effective wealth transfer and blatant attempt at power seizure in the western world come from the country with the least "sheep" and least invasive government action?

Wouldn't that make Bill Gates a traitor to the elite and hero of the people for warning against this hostile global takeover and advocating for steps taken to prevent it?

 

[ULF_55]

There absolutely are conspiracy theories that don’t involve a global cabal. And a lot of people were mocked for saying those types of things in his post in the past.

you’re basically saying none of things were conspiracy theories because they turned out to be true/you have always agreed with them

I have never pushed any of these theories however vaccination passports was most certainly considered a conspiracy theory months and and were looking straight at it now

Science Fiction Book 'The Caves Of Steel' By Isaac Asimov (Fresh Look)

The setting of the story is complex and detailed, traits shared by other Asimov novels. Earth cities have separated themselves from nature and the outdoors. The population lives in hermetically sealed cities, and agoraphobia is the norm. Fear of germs is also present. Many people wear nose plugs to prevent infection even when the risk is extremely low. Typically, Spacers do not share these irrational fears. They tend to be wealthier than native Earth citizens and frequently use robot labor. Natives don’t trust robot labor, which makes Olivaw’s involvement much more dramatic.

It has been quite a while and still can't find nose plugs.

 

[4thline]

So because the purpose and intent are not clear to you yet they’re not considered conspiracy theories?

The purpose of restricting travel and contact was to slow the spread of a highly infectious disease, not to exert control for shits and giggles
The purpose of spending great sums of money to was to mitigate the impact of the above, not a master plan to bankrupt the country.
The purpose of "quarantine camps" was to provide a place to isolate for those whose circumstances kept them from doing so safely, it was not a nefarious plot to kidnap and hold people

 

[justashadowof]

I have never pushed any of these theories however vaccination passports was most certainly considered a conspiracy theory months and and were looking straight at it now

Beautiful recent example.

 

[Pink Mist]

You don't find it a little bit odd that India, Africa...etc have all handled covid better than the States?

Not really. May African countries have had experience controlling localized pandemics is recent years

 

[ULF_55]

I have never pushed any of these theories however vaccination passports was most certainly considered a conspiracy theory months and and were looking straight at it now

Is that what constitutes a conspiracy theory?

I thought that was a possibility, but never really considered it a theory, or even a concern, or conspiracy.

It isn't like everyone is going to be stopped to prove you have a card.
Heck, you have to have a card / license to drive, but it isn't like you get pulled over to prove it.

Heck, I think a lot of weird things that may or may not come true but that doesn't make them conspiracies.

So the breakup of Canada and the USofA, into regional countries, especially the west coast of the continent is that a conspiracy theory, or just a possibility?

COVID-19 is something we are all living through, but the goal is to live through it.

If we make it to the other side we have a fighting chance.

 

[4thline]

I thought that was a possibility, but never really considered it a theory, or even a concern, or conspiracy.

Well put. Restoring normalcy through an extension of something we already do (requiring proof of vaccination for school attendance) seemed like a reasonable and even likely course of action.

 

[justashadowof]

"I always thought physically forcing people to be vaccinated was a possibility."

"It was always a possibility that the masks would not be temporary."

 

[4thline]

"I always thought physically forcing people to be vaccinated was a possibility."

Mandating and physically forcing are very very different things.

 

[ULF_55]

"I always thought physically forcing people to be vaccinated was a possibility."

"It was always a possibility that the masks would not be temporary."

Funny thing of the masks is that they aren't really new.

Much less so here, but for years and year and years I've seen masks worn around the world.

I've mentioned it before, but I refuse to shake hands when I have a cold. I tell the other person I have a cold and don't want to share ... I don't think anyone has ever been offended, although I have been thanked.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The seven worst regions are:
1. Peel
2. Toronto
3. Windsor
4. York
5. Hamilton
6. Durham
7. Halton

At this point, all 7 should have a hard shutdown. Back in November, only 3 or 4 regions would have needed one.

As for checkpoints, Quebec managed to have them separating high spread regions from rural low spread ones. People in the Montreal to Quebec City corridor could move within the corridor but could not enter other regions. There were checkpoints between Ottawa and Gatineau. Ontarians could only enter the Montreal area.

Where are you getting this? I notice you included where I live (Halton) but not where you live (Ottawa). Interesting because there's been way more negative covid news out of your region than mine. Pretty easy to shut someone else down.