Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part VIII - The Long Winter is Here

[Pink Mist]

Yes, but if enough of us refuse to take it, those types of draconian measures will cripple the economy. Imagine if half the population could not go to restaurants, sporting events, concerts, travel, etc.

Personally, I would honestly rather forego all of those privileges than risk my health.

Do you not see the irony in your statement? This is literally what people are asking you to do to prevent the spread of covid and prevent the health risks of covid to yourself and others

 

[Gabriel426]

How is taking the mRNA vaccine that even Moderna says won't necessarily protect people against getting or transmitting Covid the answer?

Bigger question is why take a vaccine that (even according to the manufacturer) doesn't do very much except modify our genetics, but we apparently aren't allowed to ask that question.....

The fact that England is apparently going to be the First Nation to vaccinate the population have a very 28days later vibe. At least that’s just me.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don’t really want the vaccine or at least I wanna wait a while. I’m healthy and 38. But I will have no choice as work will make me take it. This will be a mandatory vaccine for most of us whether we like it or not. It’s amazing how fast this happened and good old China is raking in the money and have no virus issues in the largest populated country on earth. Thanks China.

Don’t think anyone should trust China’s numbers, mate.

 

[TrueBlue86]

How is taking the mRNA vaccine that even Moderna says won't necessarily protect people against getting or transmitting Covid the answer?

Bigger question is why take a vaccine that (even according to the manufacturer) doesn't do very much except modify our genetics, but we apparently aren't allowed to ask that question.....

I don't know where to even start with this. So far, from what we know from a phase III clinical trial is that from 30,000 participants, 95 got COVID, 90 of which were in the placebo group, and only 5 took the test product (vaccine). Also, there were no safety concerns reported thus far.

Moderna’s COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate Meets its Primary Efficacy Endpoint in the First Interim Analysis of the Phase 3 COVE Study | Moderna, Inc.

The Pfizer phase III trial had very similar (almost identical results), with slightly more participants. Of course as these are new product to the market, we don't 100% know how long the immunity will be conferred. What do you mean by "won't necessarily protect people against getting or transmitting Covid"?? I'm really curious.

I'm a healthy 34 year old but I'll be the first one to get the vaccine when allowed to, partly because to be a contrarian to the tin foil community. Also, I'm a conservative, so not generally a government shill or someone who blindly buys into most government programs/ what the government says. Here I'm trust private industry to solve this, not the government.

 

[TrueBlue86]

I even read that it may have adverse effects on the female reproductive system (which would tie in to the population control theories out there).

Do you have a source for this? Would love to read.
I have not seen anything about this from reading the results of the clinical trials (Pfizer and Moderna). Is it from the conspiracy community or legit?

 

[kb]

The fact that England is apparently going to be the First Nation to vaccinate the population have a very 28days later vibe. At least that’s just me.

I am honestly very worried for those people. They entirely skipped the animal trials and went straight to human testing. You need months and years of data before there can be any level of confidence in the long-term effects.

"Trust me, it's safe" doesn't cut it for me, and it shouldn't for anyone else either.

Just imagine if the following were to be true.

Head of Pfizer Research: Covid Vaccine is Female Sterilization

 

[TrueBlue86]

Just watch 6 months from now all of the conversation in here switch to shaming people that won't take a vaccine that was developed faster than any in history, in part, for political reasons.

To be fair, an unprecedented amount of money and effort was thrown at this. Literally the whole globe was trying to solve this problem, with unlimited government printing supplying the cash.

As someone who is familiar with pharmaceutical development, I have not seen red flags in terms of corners being cut. Phase I/II/III studies were done. If additional months/years were spent where companies are spinning their tires on unsuccessful candidates due to a lack of funding or resources, it would not make me feel any better. Overall, companies will generally do one successful Phase III trial for something like this...

 

[Gabriel426]

I am honestly very worried for those people. They entirely skipped the animal trials and went straight to human testing. You need months and years of data before there can be any level of confidence in the long-term effects.

"Trust me, it's safe" doesn't cut it for me, and it shouldn't for anyone else either.

Just imagine if the following were to be true.

Head of Pfizer Research: Covid Vaccine is Female Sterilization

I completely agree with you. Way too soon to be use in the general public.
When Russia first announced they had the vaccine and will be use for public, literally the whole questions them but when Pfizer and Modena come out with a vaccine, everyone is saying can’t wait. Something doesn’t add up.

 

[Gabriel426]

To be fair, an unprecedented amount of money and effort was thrown at this. Literally the whole globe was trying to solve this problem, with unlimited government printing supplying the cash.

As someone who is familiar with pharmaceutical development, I have not seen red flags in terms of corners being cut. Phase I/II/III studies were done. If additional months/years were spent where companies are spinning their tires on unsuccessful candidates due to a lack of funding or resources, it would not make me feel any better. Overall, companies will generally do one successful Phase III trial for something like this...

That’s a good point about having unprecedented resources for this vaccine but time is something you cannot buy. You can have 5000people working on it night and day but at the end they still need to test the vaccine and that takes time.

 

[TrueBlue86]

I completely agree with you. Way too soon to be use in the general public.
When Russia first announced they had the vaccine and will be use for public, literally the whole questions them but when Pfizer and Modena come out with a vaccine, everyone is saying can’t wait. Something doesn’t add up.

Largely because when Russia first started approving their vaccines, they did not even complete phase III trials. I realize some have now.

Russian SARS-CoV-2 vaccine

 

[kb]

I don't know where to even start with this. So far, from what we know from a phase III clinical trial is that from 30,000 participants, 95 got COVID, 90 of which were in the placebo group, and only 5 took the test product (vaccine). Also, there were no safety concerns reported thus far.

Moderna’s COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate Meets its Primary Efficacy Endpoint in the First Interim Analysis of the Phase 3 COVE Study | Moderna, Inc.

The Pfizer phase III trial had very similar (almost identical results), with slightly more participants. Of course as these are new product to the market, we don't 100% know how long the immunity will be conferred. What do you mean by "won't necessarily protect people against getting or transmitting Covid"?? I'm really curious.

I'm a healthy 34 year old but I'll be the first one to get the vaccine when allowed to, partly because to be a contrarian to the tin foil community. Also, I'm a conservative, so not generally a government shill or someone who blindly buys into most government programs/ what the government says. Here I'm trust private industry to solve this, not the government.

Who is saying that there are no safety concerns? Who is monitoring the safety? HINT: The very same ones who stand to profit the most from this rush to market. It's been allowed to completely skip the animal trials, and it won't be subject to peer review for at least 2 years. And there is absolutely no studies with regards to contraindications with current medications.

You are more than welcome to have mine until I see the hard data, and not storytelling masquerading as science.

 

[PromisedLand]

Too many uncertainties regarding the vaccines for my liking. I even read that it may have adverse effects on the female reproductive system (which would tie in to the population control theories out there).

It's interesting to note that the U.S. has already decided not to vaccinate any of its citizens under 18 years of age due to the uncertainty regarding long term effects.

I won't take it, and neither will my wife and kids. I don't trust big pharma with my family's long term health.

As much as I don't people questioning masks, social distancing and measures being taken to control the virus (lockdowns etc...);

I will say that i have absolutely ZERO faith in big pharma. I do not trust them and never will. For big pharma the bottom line is the net profit not public health

 

[TrueBlue86]

That’s a good point about having unprecedented resources for this vaccine but time is something you cannot buy. You can have 5000people working on it night and day but at the end they still need to test the vaccine and that takes time.

Yea, except it was still enough time for them to go through all common phases of clinical trials.
Coronavirus Vaccine Tracker

 

[PromisedLand]

Why people are not talking about what Pfizer and Moderna are saying about covid prevention is beyond me. The Pfizer CEO sold 60% of his shares after they announced the 90% success rate...and then a few weeks later admitted they DON'T know if it will prevent covid from being transmitted...That's the equivalent of a used car dealer telling you that you can't inspect the car or drive it AND can't buy an extended warranty on it...but just trust him...its gonna be fine bro...

is this true? did the CEO really sell 60% of his shares after they announced the 90% success rate?

Did the stocks sky-rocket after that announcement? usually, stocks go haywire after some "announcements" and then settle on an equilibrium lower than the peak (this is true for apple (i phones); google (android), facebook (whatsapp) etc...) - may be he sold it high and then will re-buy it when they come down a little meanwhile raking in some extra profit

As far a I know, based on reading and Dr. Fauci's talks to various universities in the US (these are available on youtube); the vaccines are not designed to to eliminate the virus or stop transmission; they are designed to stop the onset of immune response that goes crazy; i.e. reduce the symptoms - kind of like antihistamines we take for allergies.


Vaccines are really to protect yourself not someone else from you; it will not stop you from transmitting the virus; but it will help you fight the virus if you get it i.e. lower symptoms and less chance of you ending up in the hospital

 

[PromisedLand]

Whoops.....I guess they are fine with crippling the economy.

LOL

ummm.... the vaccines do not mean that you won't spread the virus; it means if you get it; your immune response will be in check and probability of you ending up in a hospital is less.

Was this doctor misquoted? or is he misguided?



Fauci clearly says that they don't know if this vaccine can "prevent" the virus from spreading; but it will help reduce the symptoms

 

[PromisedLand]

some good Q and A

 

[Brown Dog]

Oh great...here come the anti-vaxxers. I'll see myself out.

 

[Sens]

LOL

ummm.... the vaccines do not mean that you won't spread the virus; it means if you get it; your immune response will be in check and probability of you ending up in a hospital is less.

Was this doctor misquoted? or is he misguided?



Fauci clearly says that they don't know if this vaccine can "prevent" the virus from spreading; but it will help reduce the symptoms

so we will be wearing masks and socially distancing forever than

 

[HolyCrap]

Don’t think anyone should trust China’s numbers, mate.

Yeah. They are so low it makes no sense.

 

[PromisedLand]

so we will be wearing masks and socially distancing forever than

the way I see it playing is the following:

At the moment vaccine is not available so we as a society have to be responsible because we might end up killing someone else.

Once vaccine becomes available; then people who want to take the vaccine will take it and who doesn't will not take it.

After that you are not going to kill someone else by giving them covid if they are vaccinated. If person x gives covid to person y; and both are not vaccinated and person y is more susceptible, ends up in a hospital then it was their choice.

Also, the person that is vaccinated may still end up spreading the virus anyway; so now person A who is vaccinated spreads the virus to person B who is vaccinated and person C who is not (by choice). Person B will not go to the hospital but person C may end up in the hospital if they are more susceptible to the virus.

Once vaccines are available it will be a matter of choice between folks who choose to take vaccines and ones who choose not to take it.

Ones who choose to take vaccine they will be at lower risk of ending up in the hospital compared to the ones who do not take vaccine. masks will not be mandatory as vaccines are available.

I think the hope is that majority of the folks will take the vaccine and the ones who don't even if they do end up going to the hospital will not over burden the healthcare system.

How many people take it will depend...

But there won't be any masks or social distancing I guess by 4th quarter of 2021 as by then most of the people would have had a chance to take the vaccine. Logistically, if every canadian can get vaccinated in a month; then for us in Canada I would say masks and social distancing will be over month after the vaccinations are done.

Bottom Line is: Vaccine is available; you can take it and lower your chances of going to the hospital; if you don't then you are free to risk your life.

At the moment, the masks and social distancing is not only to protect your ownself but also others; after vaccines this will not be the case

 

[HolyCrap]

Do they use masks/social distancing?

I would assume so. Not that it would make the numbers that low. Look at the rest of the world and other Countries.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

To be fair, an unprecedented amount of money and effort was thrown at this. Literally the whole globe was trying to solve this problem, with unlimited government printing supplying the cash.

As someone who is familiar with pharmaceutical development, I have not seen red flags in terms of corners being cut. Phase I/II/III studies were done. If additional months/years were spent where companies are spinning their tires on unsuccessful candidates due to a lack of funding or resources, it would not make me feel any better. Overall, companies will generally do one successful Phase III trial for something like this...

Pfizer and Moderna both waited until one week after the US election to announce their vaccines are ready. Trump said he wanted to break the back of the pharmaceutical industry and opened up the US market to importing cheap drugs from Canada and other countries. If this is who you want to trust, I wish you well. I simply won't be taking it.

Fortunately, we have a built-in perfect solution: you take it and you feel safe from me. I don't take it and wait and see. Literally everyone wins.

 

[HolyCrap]

Pfizer and Moderna both waited until one week after the US election to announce their vaccines are ready. Trump said he wanted to break the back of the pharmaceutical industry and opened up the US market to importing cheap drugs from Canada and other countries. If this is who you want to trust, I wish you well. I simply won't be taking it.

Fortunately, we have a built-in perfect solution: you take it and you feel safe from me. I don't take it and wait and see. Literally everyone wins.

Only issue I see is companies making it mandatory for employees to get vaccinated. It will be required for travel too. It could get messy tbh.

 

[Bomber0104]

I would assume so. Not that it would make the numbers that low. Look at the rest of the world and other Countries.

Western culture used to belittle, mock and make fun of Asians for wearing masks.

Maybe they knew something we didn't all along...

 

[HolyCrap]

Western culture used to belittle, mock and make fun of Asians for wearing masks.

Maybe they knew something we didn't all along...

Huh. I couldn’t careless if people wear masks. I sure as hell am not going to wear one when this is over. If you wanna wear one go ahead.