Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part IX- Now Featuring More Lockdowns

[The Hanging Jowl]

Too bad there wasn't a vaccine for the seasonal flu.

There's a vaccine every single year for seasonal flu. Hundreds of thousands in this country still get it and 8,000 still die from it regardless every year. Curious to read your explanation what's different this year.

 

[Pink Mist]

There's a vaccine every single year for seasonal flu. Hundreds of thousands in this country still get it and 8,000 still die from it regardless every year. Curious to read your explanation what's different this year.

Measures to prevent covid such as face masks, social distancing, and hand washing work really well with preventing the flu. It's not rocket science.

 

[kb]

Measures to prevent covid such as face masks, social distancing, and hand washing work really well with preventing the flu. It's not rocket science.

LOL. Just not Covid.

Where is the scientific data for this again?

 

[Pink Mist]

LOL. Just not Covid.

Where is the scientific data for this again?

Are you trying to suggest that mask wearing, social distancing, and hand washing doesn't prevent the spread of covid?

 

[Sens]

I just finished my shift in Halton and driving home was absolutely madness

it’s Sunday in a Pandemic... where are all these cars coming from? Going?

I literally got stuck in a 20 min traffic jam on the highway since lane closure to some construction

 

[Sens]

LOL. Just not Covid.

Where is the scientific data for this again?

it makes no sense... apparently Covid eats the flu

 

[Mickey Marner]

I just finished my shift in Halton and driving home was absolutely madness

it’s Sunday in a Pandemic... where are all these cars coming from? Going?

I literally got stuck in a 20 min traffic jam on the highway since lane closure to some construction

The amount of road construction still going on in the middle of December is absurd. Like, at least pay weekend OT and finish it up so we have roads to drive on this winter.

 

[stealth1]

I just finished my shift in Halton and driving home was absolutely madness

it’s Sunday in a Pandemic... where are all these cars coming from? Going?

I literally got stuck in a 20 min traffic jam on the highway since lane closure to some construction

That is exactly why I have no faith in most people anymore. I saw video of massive lineups to get into Vaughan Mills. So disappointing to see so many people don't care.

 

[The Podium]

The only scientific premise that I can think of would be that every year there are 2-3 flu strains that start out of the gate...by the midway point 1 of them has become dominant and the others die off. So it could be that covid is just the front runner because it has been circulating for over 1 year and the other ones never had a chance to win. That I would believe if I could trust the data coming from the government...but I am not sure on that data. If it were 100% legit data...the premise I just explained would be the reason.

This is what I would guess as well. Microbial competition.

COVID-19 and the Flu | ASM.org

The American Society of Microbiology predicted an uncharacteristically low flu season ~1 1/2 months ago. It also isnt isolated to NA but has been the trend globally with the southern hemisphere now out of their flu season.

Other resources also include co-infection as a reason for lower flu numbers. Basically since the pathway of infection and symptoms are similar, it is likely that COVID is masking the flu in people who have been co-infected by both. Since COVID is much more virulent and contagious, it is more likely to have COVID without the flu than the flu without COVID.

Again, we need to remember....a positive PCR test result does not signify an active (or inactive) Covid infection, let alone a "case". A positive test result should only be labelled an active case if the patient is symptomatic and accompanied by a physician's differential diagnosis (to rule out colds, flu, etc.).

So a positive PCR test alone is only slightly above meaningless, a positive test with symptoms still could be nearly anything (cold, flu, Covid) without a confirmed physician's diagnosis.

Who cares that the tests have poor accuracy. It is better to be overly cautious than loosely cautious.

What I have noticed during the pandemic is a lot of people fear and emphasize the wrong things. Yes, everything you have been saying is accurate. The number of positive tests and deaths due to COVID are likely inaccurate, yes lockdowns are relatively ineffective, yes a rushed vaccination is scary.

What people fail to consider are the indirect or delayed ramifications.

With a novel virus we have no idea about the long term troubles that may be associated with it. Yes 90 whatever % of people survive, but what about 10 years from now? HIV, HSV, VZV are just some examples of viruses that remain indefinitely, HIV and VZV becoming more serious long term. Multiple resources show that people who were infected with SARS in 2003 have had long term respiratory impairment, some as serious as pulmonary fibrosis

The other issue is the changes in protocol and overcrowding of our hospitals leading to poor treatment for more emergent patients. At its peak major hospitals in Texas had overwhelmed ERs and people were dying from routine non-COVID related issues while waiting/searching for available doctors.

Another example, TGH in Toronto, the countrys largest transplant program, limited transplant surgeries for a month at its peak this summer to re-allocate resources (ICU beds) and because COVID infected organs may cause issues in immunosuppressed individuals.

People need to start looking at the bigger picture.

 

[HC7]

HFBoards used to just be terrible hockey opinions, now those same people are experts about the pandemic. What a mess.

 

[kb]

This is what I would guess as well. Microbial competition.

COVID-19 and the Flu | ASM.org

The American Society of Microbiology predicted an uncharacteristically low flu season ~1 1/2 months ago. It also isnt isolated to NA but has been the trend globally with the southern hemisphere now out of their flu season.

Other resources also include co-infection as a reason for lower flu numbers. Basically since the pathway of infection and symptoms are similar, it is likely that COVID is masking the flu in people who have been co-infected by both. Since COVID is much more virulent and contagious, it is more likely to have COVID without the flu than the flu without COVID.



Who cares that the tests have poor accuracy. It is better to be overly cautious than loosely cautious.

What I have noticed during the pandemic is a lot of people fear and emphasize the wrong things. Yes, everything you have been saying is accurate. The number of positive tests and deaths due to COVID are likely inaccurate, yes lockdowns are relatively ineffective, yes a rushed vaccination is scary.

What people fail to consider are the indirect or delayed ramifications.

With a novel virus we have no idea about the long term troubles that may be associated with it. Yes 90 whatever % of people survive, but what about 10 years from now? HIV, HSV, VZV are just some examples of viruses that remain indefinitely, HIV and VZV becoming more serious long term. Multiple resources show that people who were infected with SARS in 2003 have had long term respiratory impairment, some as serious as pulmonary fibrosis

The other issue is the changes in protocol and overcrowding of our hospitals leading to poor treatment for more emergent patients. At its peak major hospitals in Texas had overwhelmed ERs and people were dying from routine non-COVID related issues while waiting/searching for available doctors.

Another example, TGH in Toronto, the countrys largest transplant program, limited transplant surgeries for a month at its peak this summer to re-allocate resources (ICU beds) and because COVID infected organs may cause issues in immunosuppressed individuals.

People need to start looking at the bigger picture.

I am looking at the bigger picture....that is the whole point. Who cares about inaccurate testing? Well I most certainly do. Testing numbers in and of itself with regards to a positive test is not a reason to justify any lockdown because they are next to meaningless as they are not yet cases, nor are they necessarily suggestive of infectious cases. Most positive results do not end up as active Covid cases. In fact, it's highly disingenuous for them to call any positive result on a flawed PCR test a true case, when the clinical definition of a case (prior to Covid-19) required all of these 3 things:

- a positive test result.
- a patient presenting with symptoms.
- (in this case) a differential diagnosis from a physician to show it's actually Covid, and not a cold, flu, or other illness.

The only numbers that matter at all are total hospitalizations with regards to capacity. Basically they should stop testing immediately, as they are not using it for any purpose but political. A random anecdotal story about an overflow in Texas is not evidence that Covid is overwhelming the system. Hospitals and ICU's run into capacity issues this all the time even outside of these so called 'pandemic' times (anyone hear the term hallway medicine before?). I know this because of my father, who spent far too much time in hallways waiting to be seen before his passing in the summer of 2016.

As far as the TGH, we cannot blame a virus for TGH's poor foresight and poor management decisions. They knew about Covid from early spring and didn't bother to come up with alternative plans or mitigation strategies. It's a terrible thing....

If we talk about those who are suffering, let's talk about the 13,000+ deaths of predominantly 80+ year olds in LTC's (a huge entirely avoidable tragedy that needs an inquest IMO - but that's for another day....) and the millions in Canada who lost employment either temporarily or permanently because of these measures. How is the mental and physical health and overall well being of those that lost their jobs, houses, businesses, etc? Suicides are up, drug abuse/overdoses and deaths up, and domestic violence up as a direct result of these measures, which so far have accomplished next to nothing with regards to stopping Covid.

I'm not sure why Covid seems to be the only thing on earth currently worth taking a stand for when (so far) it has proven to be mostly harmless to 98%+ of all people, and overall deaths are on a near normal annual pace in most countries. As I keep reiterating, dying with a positive Covid test =/= dying from Covid, (and many deaths are only presumptive and never actually confirmed), yet all are counted as such.

We need to take the "Covid" blinders off for a moment and look at the toll and unintended consequences that these (largely ineffective) measures being taken for Covid are having on every aspect of society.

This is the bigger picture that needs to be looked at. All of it.

 

[kb]

This is interesting......is this not worth following up on? Much safer and more effective than any vaccine.

The FDA-approved drug ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro - ScienceDirect

 

[kb]

Huh......wasn't this....naw.

In Italy, the Council of State says YES to hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19

 

[Pink Mist]

I don't know how you can say our covid measures have done nothing when you can just look to the south of us to the States to what covid looks like if left uncontrolled. Or even to Sweden who has had to call in doctors from neighbouring countries this week and cancel surgeries because their hospitals are at capacity

 

[stealth1]

I don't know how you can say our covid measures have done nothing when you can just look to the south of us to the States to what covid looks like if left uncontrolled

Exactly. They keep setting daily records for deaths in one day.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Huh......wasn't this....naw.

In Italy, the Council of State says YES to hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19

So much of the response to covid has been affected by politics I'm baffled why more people aren't asking questions. Is it not clear now that HCQ was buried as a solution because of everyone's hatred of Trump? Pfizer/Moderna waited until the day after the election to say their vaccine's were ready? What fool doesn't see through this? And how many people have died because of this?

 

[kb]

So much of the response to covid has been affected by politics I'm baffled why more people aren't asking questions. Is it not clear now that HCQ was buried as a solution because of everyone's hatred of Trump? Pfizer/Moderna waited until the day after the election to say their vaccine's were ready? What fool doesn't see through this? And how many people have died because of this?

It's out and out criminal that so many people are/were needlessly suffering and dying when there were effective treatments out there. Worst of all, doctors faced persecution and even prosecution by trying to save lives with these safe and effective means.

 

[Muston Atthews]

 

[Muston Atthews]

 

[stealth1]

Its honestly disgusting how little empathy many have for those that have died from Covid.
"Gee only 250,000 more died then normal, dddduuuuhhh why we have measures to protect people. Uuuummmm dddduuuuhhh"

Every day I hate people more and more. I'm at the point the only people I care about is me and my family. The rest of the world could all get sick I could care less. Everyone is that way.

I get the virus is going to spread but we were doing a decent job keeping numbers low. The virus needs people for it to spread. I would hope people would understand that the less interaction with people the less chance of spreading. Instead people have to people.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Its honestly disgusting how little empathy many have for those that have died from Covid.
"Gee only 250,000 more died then normal, dddduuuuhhh why we have measures to protect people. Uuuummmm dddduuuuhhh"

Did you read the postS? The population goes up = deaths go up. Anywhere from .9% to 3.2% over the past few years. Duhhhhhh is right

 

[Pink Mist]

Did you read the post? The population goes up = deaths go up. Anywhere from .9% to 3.2% over the past few years. Duhhhhhh is right

Yeah but there's going to be an increase by over 350,000 deaths. That's an abnormality from a usual year

 

[Muston Atthews]

Its honestly disgusting how little empathy many have for those that have died from Covid.
"Gee only 250,000 more died then normal, dddduuuuhhh why we have measures to protect people. Uuuummmm dddduuuuhhh"

Every day I hate people more and more. I'm at the point the only people I care about is me and my family. The rest of the world could all get sick I could care less. Everyone is that way.

I get the virus is going to spread but we were doing a decent job keeping numbers low. The virus needs people for it to spread. I would hope people would understand that the less interaction with people the less chance of spreading. Instead people have to people.

So why don’t you care less then? Life’s a lot easier when you’re not worried about saving everyone else. Save your energy for you and those you care about and do your best to protect them.

You’re catching on.

 

[Kiwi]

Its honestly disgusting how little empathy many have for those that have died from Covid.
"Gee only 250,000 more died then normal, dddduuuuhhh why we have measures to protect people. Uuuummmm dddduuuuhhh"

I tend to have empathy for the people that are still alive, rather than the deceased since you know, THEY ARE DEAD

Getting lectured about empathy from people that talk about removing people's livelihoods, rights and civil liberties like it's nothing more than a minor inconvenience is ah, interesting

I'm going to lay some knowledge on you, people die
Shocking stuff I know but we haven't found a way to stop death yet

A breakdown of cause of death year to year would be interesting, I wonder how much our change of circumstances and behaviors has changed causes of death in 2020

When you take into account population growth it doesn't look like deaths are up but that would make an interesting comparison imo

 

[kb]

Blame those that told us masks work.
Blame those that told us lockdowns work.
Blame those that suppressed effective and inexpensive treatments while people needlessly suffered and died.
Blame those that put obscene profiteering over protection of human lives.

But somehow that's all on the people.