Connor McDavid with 91 pts in last 84 games

[Skinnyjimmy08]

you can tell a 19 year old has hit freak status when people find 91 points in 84 games just sorta impressive haha

Im so scared to see how good he will be at 25

 

[stepdad gaary]

You're really struggling here. We are talking about their rookie seasons not their comparisons to other rookies in their rookie season. The only way you can properly compare their rookie seasons is by comparing them to the scoring leaders in the league because of the differences in league scoring due to way more penalties being called when Malkin came into the league.

im not struggling.


You said mcdavid is god. I said Kucherov has similar numbers over the last 82. You said im only talking about rookies.

Then when Malkin's rookie season came up you said he wasnt that much better than other players in the league at the time......who are not rookies.

 

[McFlyingV]

Definitely not arguing McDavid is better to this point as Crosby was at the same point in his career because I don't think he has been. But I also think those raw numbers unfairly show a wider gap than reality. I'm not sure how to find the splits for those games played but its interesting that Pittsburgh has 495 PP opportunities in 2005-06 to Edmonton's 237 in 15-16. Would be interesting to compare their EV strength points over the split you mentioned (although I believe you should be looking at McDavid and Crosby's first 45 NHL games, and then their first 39 from their Sophomore year for a fair comparison, as I'm sure McDavid wasn't improving at hockey somehow in the time he was injured, the way that Sid many have been by gaining NHL experience from playing).

At this point, there really isn't a fair way to compare the two. I would suggest the best comparison is the first half of their sophomore seasons.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...007-01-04&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,&sort=points

Crosby is 1st in points, and way ahead in PPG over his peers.

True, and even that way isn't entirely fair given that Crosby had an extra full half season under his belt. I definitely think Crosby is further along at the same point and its going to be hard for McDavid to surpass him given how good Crosby is.

With that said I do think McDavid has a ton of room to improve if he can physically mature the way I think he can (remains to be seen of course and is complete speculation). For example some of the best players to come into the league in the last 10 years have been physical specimens at such a young age, Crosby, Ovechkin, Matthews. Now I don't know if McDavid will ever reach that level of strength and physical maturity, but I'm not sure its entirely out of the question. I didn't see Forsberg or Datsyuk as 18/19 year olds, but I'm sure they weren't the physical specimens at that age compared to what they looked like in their prime. I think if McDavid wants to he could easily get up to 205 if he wants to and I really don't think it would hurt his skating much if at all. I mean Taylor Hall is over 200 and he's visibly shorter than McDavid (despite them both being listed at 6'1).

 

[Empoleon8771]

He's getting worn down by playing a ridiculous amount. There's no surprise that he has slowed down recently, the dude hasn't played a full season in the NHL yet and hasn't played over 50 games in a season since 2013-2014. The Oilers are playing him a ton every single game, which is already starting to cause him to slow down.

He's also not as good as some people liked to argue though.

Also, just to note, when you're comparing McDavid's point totals to Crosby's first full season for instance, scoring is way down leaguewide compared to what it was that season so 90 points in 82 games now is way more impressive than it would have been in '05-'06. Also keep in mind that McDavid has no high end offensive defensemen to get him the puck in transition.

No it's not, they're about equal when you consider everything. Crosby and McDavid had a similar ES points/60 and ES scoring in 05-06 was actually lower than it is now, McDavid just played a ton more at ES.

 

[McFlyingV]

im not struggling.


You said mcdavid is god. I said Kucherov has similar numbers over the last 82. You said im only talking about rookies.

Then when Malkin's rookie season came up you said he wasnt that much better than other players in the league at the time......who are not rookies.

Wrong I said nothing about McDavid being a god. I simply said his rookie season is the best rookie season since Crosby and Ovechkin, and that his first 82 games he had identical point totals to Malkin, while ranking significantly higher among the league in points per game than Malkin did. I'm not sure how anything you've said disproves what I said. McDavid had identical points to Malkin through their first 82 games, and ranked higher in points per game among the league because he played his first 82 games in an era where scoring is harder to come by, mainly due to reduced power plays compared to when Malkin played his first 82 games. Thus, McDavid's first 82 games are more impressive than Malkins, and you can't even argue that a lot of McDavid's came in his sophomore year, because Malkin entered the league in his 3rd eligible season after his draft, while McDavid entered it in his first eligible season. In fact in terms of age, next season for McDavid would be the equivalent of Malkin's rookie season.

 

[542365]

Man Oilers fans get defensive when people don't automatically claim he's the best player in the league.

 

[daver]

He's getting worn down by playing a ridiculous amount. There's no surprise that he has slowed down recently, the dude hasn't played a full season in the NHL yet and hasn't played over 50 games in a season since 2013-2014. The Oilers are playing him a ton every single game, which is already starting to cause him to slow down.

Not mentioning this to further the case for Crosby but he was 20th among forwards in TOI and 20th in ES TOI in his 2nd season. McDavid is 5th in TOI and 2nd in ES TOI so far this season.

 

[McFlyingV]

He's getting worn down by playing a ridiculous amount. There's no surprise that he has slowed down recently, the dude hasn't played a full season in the NHL yet and hasn't played over 50 games in a season since 2013-2014. The Oilers are playing him a ton every single game, which is already starting to cause him to slow down.

He's also not as good as some people liked to argue though.



No it's not, they're about equal when you consider everything. Crosby and McDavid had a similar ES points/60 and ES scoring in 05-06 was actually lower than it is now, McDavid just played a ton more at ES.

This is the biggest thing. If McLellan was smart he'd take McDavid off the PK for a bit and dial his 5 on 5 minutes back slightly. Unfortunately McLellan doesn't seem very smart most of the time. The fact that he keeps stapling Lucic and Eberle to McDavid despite an obvious lack of chemistry, and Eberle having his worst season of his career (on pace for 13 non-empty net goals) certainly isn't helping his cause either.

 

[McFlyingV]

Man Oilers fans get defensive when people don't automatically claim he's the best player in the league.

Having a reasonable discussion is getting defensive? I haven't read anything in this thread that is out of line from reasonable debate. I guess this isn't a hockey forum where you discuss this kind of thing.

 

[Jozay]

you can tell a 19 year old has hit freak status when people find 91 points in 84 games just sorta impressive haha

Im so scared to see how good he will be at 25

Exactly

Kid is 19, 91 points in practically his first season in the nhl is insane. He'll be in a league of his own when he hits his prime.

 

[fsanford]

Cannot wait to see him in the All Star Game playing 3 on 3 for an extended period of time.

 

[93LEAFS]

He's getting worn down by playing a ridiculous amount. There's no surprise that he has slowed down recently, the dude hasn't played a full season in the NHL yet and hasn't played over 50 games in a season since 2013-2014. The Oilers are playing him a ton every single game, which is already starting to cause him to slow down.

He's also not as good as some people liked to argue though.



No it's not, they're about equal when you consider everything. Crosby and McDavid had a similar ES points/60 and ES scoring in 05-06 was actually lower than it is now, McDavid just played a ton more at ES.

I guess if you are only counting OHL regular season. In his draft year he played 47 regular season games, another 7 WJC games and then on top of that 20 playoff games.

 

[DL44]

He's getting worn down by playing a ridiculous amount. There's no surprise that he has slowed down recently, the dude hasn't played a full season in the NHL yet and hasn't played over 50 games in a season since 2013-2014. The Oilers are playing him a ton every single game, which is already starting to cause him to slow down.

You think? He's averaging 21+ per night overall.... but he was at 26+ mins vs the Canucks a couple nights ago...

On his game log the last month, i see.. 26:43 (Canucks gm), 22:05 (last gm), 23:47, 24:55, 21:55, 21:40..
His lows: 18:48 in a 3-1 win.. 19:18 in a 3-2 win where they jumped to a 3-0 lead.... and 19:30 where they led for the final 40ish mins..

We'll see how he trends as the season rolls in through game 50, 60, 70...

But the Oilers are obviously riding him when they need to score... and laying off of him when comfortable...

They need to become a first period team to help save his legs...

Then again... he's 19..

 

[LaGu]

Great first 82 GP. Not over expectations, not under imho, but really darn good.

I think that it is possible that he is a bit over-played lately. Top 5 in toi/gp and 2nd in ev toi/gp has to take it's toll on a 19 year old sophomore playing his style with so much speed and trying to lead by example as C.

Seeing him play on so many occasions I only see Crosby as a comparison really. McD is so amazingly talented and only Crosby is in the same tier (still above) imo. If he puts it together he will become one of the greats in hockey, but it is early and right now it is a big part "eye test" (which is normal for such young players) so I can understand that some posters are not yet convinced. In a couple of seasons I don't think that there will be any doubt that McD is right up there with Crosby and the other greats.

 

[Creativero]

This is probably been mentioned but the Oilers are flat out missing a elite offensive defenseman. I'm expecting McDavids numbers to go up when/if they can get one. It bound to happen eventually. Even if the Oilers don't make it a priority I think a FA will just fall in thier lap at some point just because it's such a good oppertunity hockey wise.

 

[Regal]

He's getting worn down by playing a ridiculous amount. There's no surprise that he has slowed down recently, the dude hasn't played a full season in the NHL yet and hasn't played over 50 games in a season since 2013-2014. The Oilers are playing him a ton every single game, which is already starting to cause him to slow down.

He's also not as good as some people liked to argue though.



No it's not, they're about equal when you consider everything. Crosby and McDavid had a similar ES points/60 and ES scoring in 05-06 was actually lower than it is now, McDavid just played a ton more at ES.

ES P/60 is a decent amount lower in the league now than it was in 05-06. You're thinking of ES P/G. McDavid has been a clearly better even strength scorer than rookie Crosby

 

[hyduK]

This is probably been mentioned but the Oilers are flat out missing a elite offensive defenseman. I'm expecting McDavids numbers to go up when/if they can get one. It bound to happen eventually. Even if the Oilers don't make it a priority I think a FA will just fall in thier lap at some point just because it's such a good oppertunity hockey wise.

That would require an elite offensive FA to actually hit FA.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is the biggest thing. If McLellan was smart he'd take McDavid off the PK for a bit and dial his 5 on 5 minutes back slightly. Unfortunately McLellan doesn't seem very smart most of the time. The fact that he keeps stapling Lucic and Eberle to McDavid despite an obvious lack of chemistry, and Eberle having his worst season of his career (on pace for 13 non-empty net goals) certainly isn't helping his cause either.

I really don't understand why they're using McDavid on the PK along with giving him ridiculous ES minutes. Not only is using him on the PK a needless risk (you can teach anyone how to kill penalties), you can't also play him on the PK and reasonably play him that much at ES. It would make more sense in the playoffs, but I don't understand how playing him 26 minutes a night against the Canucks in a meaningless game in the middle of the season makes a lick of sense.

I guess if you are only counting OHL regular season. In his draft year he played 47 regular season games, another 7 WJC games and then on top of that 20 playoff games.

He also got a nice in season break due to his broken hand though. I should clarify what I meant though, he hasn't played a full season continuously since before then.

You think? He's averaging 21+ per night overall.... but he was at 26+ mins vs the Canucks a couple nights ago...

On his game log the last month, i see.. 26:43 (Canucks gm), 22:05 (last gm), 23:47, 24:55, 21:55, 21:40..
His lows: 18:48 in a 3-1 win.. 19:18 in a 3-2 win where they jumped to a 3-0 lead.... and 19:30 where they led for the final 40ish mins..

We'll see how he trends as the season rolls in through game 50, 60, 70...

But the Oilers are obviously riding him when they need to score... and laying off of him when comfortable...

They need to become a first period team to help save his legs...

Then again... he's 19..

19 minutes a night is still a lot for a team who's currently winning. That's still a ridiculous amount of ice time for basically any non-defenseman. The Oilers have the center depth to rest him too, I just don't get it. You don't see the Penguins riding Crosby or Malkin into the ground like that or the Capitals riding Backstrom or Kuznetsov like that.

 

[CanCHI]

I really don't understand why they're using McDavid on the PK along with giving him ridiculous ES minutes. Not only is using him on the PK a needless risk (you can teach anyone how to kill penalties), you can't also play him on the PK and reasonably play him that much at ES. It would make more sense in the playoffs, but I don't understand how playing him 26 minutes a night against the Canucks in a meaningless game in the middle of the season makes a lick of sense.



He also got a nice in season break due to his broken hand though. I should clarify what I meant though, he hasn't played a full season continuously since before then.



19 minutes a night is still a lot for a team who's currently winning. That's still a ridiculous amount of ice time for basically any non-defenseman. The Oilers have the center depth to rest him too, I just don't get it. You don't see the Penguins riding Crosby or Malkin into the ground like that or the Capitals riding Backstrom or Kuznetsov like that.

If McDavid plays 1 second less in a game than he could that's 1 second you have someone other than McDavid on the ice. Now ask yourself is this a good strategy?

 

[Empoleon8771]

If McDavid plays 1 second less in a game than he could that's 1 second you have someone other than McDavid on the ice. Now ask yourself is this a good strategy?

If you're leading 4-1 going into the 3rd period, yes. Which is more important, putting out your best team at every second in the regular season or putting out your best team at every second in the playoffs? Because doing the first basically ensures you can't do the second, players won't be able to perform to their capabilities in the playoffs if they get driven into the ground in the regular season.

 

[Creativero]

That would require an elite offensive FA to actually hit FA.

Ok a ready made FA might take a while but DeAngelo is always available for the right price. Hell, the highest scoring defenseman last month, Justin Schultz might be pricing himself out of Pittsburgh. His literally playing too well for his own good. (Unless he happens to like money)

 

[DL44]

19 minutes a night is still a lot for a team who's currently winning. That's still a ridiculous amount of ice time for basically any non-defenseman. The Oilers have the center depth to rest him too, I just don't get it. You don't see the Penguins riding Crosby or Malkin into the ground like that or the Capitals riding Backstrom or Kuznetsov like that.

I get your point... however i think it's over reactionary at the moment.
At the moment McDavid can handle it. He can handle it til he shows he can't handle it.

The way he plays.. he moves so effortlessly and efficiently on the ice.. doesn't take a physical beating.. his style of play is clearly conducive to playing huge minutes..

Don't see why they wouldn't ride him as much as they are till he shows signs of breaking down. They're trying to develop him into the best player in the world... give him the minutes.

 

[KlefDown]

The league has probably adjusted to the 19 yo McDavid, but now he will be 20. by the time they adjust to 20 yo McDavid, he'll be 21, and it'll go on and on

 

[captain cubicle]

I think the crux of the argument is that at this point in his career McDavid has not yet played to the level or Crosby or Ovy at similar ages/experience levels. Thats not to say that he wont at some point but I think it at least needs to give the people claiming him as the "next one" some pause. It certainly suggests he is still not the best player in the league and has a way to go before dethroning the likes of Crosby.

 

[daver]

ES P/60 is a decent amount lower in the league now than it was in 05-06. You're thinking of ES P/G. McDavid has been a clearly better even strength scorer than rookie Crosby

Rookie and sophomore Crosby was 6th/7th in ES scoring per game. McDavid is Top 3- 5ish in ES pts/game scoring so far. ES pts/60 is closer.

These stats always need context anyways. Total points is always the primary evaluator, and McDavid will do well to match Crosby's ES scoring/game at his peak which was even more dominant than his overall PPG.