Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[TheBeard]

Not to sure about widely considered. Many give that mantle to one of Clemens, Cy young, Walter Johnson, Tom Seaver etc.

Ok, considered by man. Point still stands Injury should not change a person's placement among the greats so long as their peak was that elite.

Ehh, hes almost equalled him in individual trophies.

That's an unfair comparison because McDavid has no on else on his level now in terms of GOAT. Wayne and Mario both had each other.

 

[Voight]

Ok, considered by man. Point still stands Injury should not change a person's placement among the greats so long as their peak was that elite.


That's an unfair comparison because McDavid has no on else on his level now in terms of GOAT. Wayne and Mario both had each other.

At the same time we can only judge them based on what they actually did instead of speculating on what might've happened if the player had been injury free.

I agree with you somewhat but it's not like McDavid is winning the Art Ross every season and leaving everyone in the dust. Kucherov has now outscored him twice, Draisaitl once & there hasn't been a massive gap between him and 2nd place aside from 2021 & 2023.

 

[TheBeard]

At the same time we can only judge them based on what they actually did instead of speculating on what might've happened if the player had been injury free.

I agree with you somewhat but it's not like McDavid is winning the Art Ross every season and leaving everyone in the dust. Kucherov has now outscored him twice, Draisaitl once & there hasn't been a massive gap between him and 2nd place aside from 2021 & 2023.

No but Kuch ain’t no Mario (or Lemieux)

 

[Mathew Barzal]

Context is key. He’ll never reach the career benchmarks of the old greats but he is without a doubt the greatest hockey player skill wise to ever step on the ice.

 

[MuckOG]

Context is key. He’ll never reach the career benchmarks of the old greats but he is without a doubt the greatest hockey player skill wise to ever step on the ice.

With all the training advantages today's players have, who's to say that the "old greats" skills wouldn't be on par or better?

 

[Sasha Orlov]

With all the training advantages today's players have, who's to say that the "old greats" skills wouldn't be on par or better?

Gretzky with a 225 bench and a CCM Jetspeed FT6 Pro would put up 500 points a year

 

[Mathew Barzal]

With all the training advantages today's players have, who's to say that the "old greats" skills wouldn't be on par or better?

We’ll never know. And we just have to live with that. All these weird generational stat conversion algorithms can never account for all the variables at hand given the massive evolution of hockey over the last 4-5 decades.

 

[BigEezyE22]

Uh, yes it did from many posters. Now they have moved on to McDavid because hand-waving talent pool, parity, salary cap blah blah. Oh, and they are still wrong if they think a 153 point season matches a typical Gretzky peak season.



That is why Lemieux is the most vulnerable member of the big 4. He missed so much time that his relatively few truly great seasons can be matched with if McDavid can manage a few more plus really good longevity.

Except those "relatively few" great seasons are spread out over such a long time. Come back from surgery... instantly dominate. Come back from cancer... instantly dominate. Come back from 3+ years of retirement... instantly dominate. From '88 to '01, Lemieux was the best player on earth.

 

[kihei]

Like counting the number of unicorns on the head of a pin.

 

[Three On Zero]

Good player but he is always going to be in Crosby’s shadow. Just doesn’t have that extra gear

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lol 2md best player getting swept in the finals? Im sure. Crosby>

 

[Video Nasty]

Lol 2md best player getting swept in the finals? Im sure. Crosby>

The greatest player ever got swept in his team’s first Finals appearance. It’s not unheard of.

And we still have an ongoing series here.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

The greatest player ever got swept in his team’s first Finals appearance. It’s not unheard of.

And we still have an ongoing series here.

Yes n said player was a young kid. Not a 27 year old grizzled vet

 

[nowhereman]

He always seems to come up with a bunch of points when it doesn't really matter. Maybe it'll be 5 points in game 2 of the Conference semis or in a game where his team is already down a handful of goals. I'd like to see him move the needle when his team needs it the most.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Make no mistake the 08 and 09 wings demolish these panthers lol

 

[ozzie]

I was hoping the Oilers would win and this debate would all sort itself out. Making the finals and putting up a turd for the most part, I'm not sure if it hurts ot helps. Series isn't over yet, nor is his career. They may return next year and win.

I still feel he needed a cup, or a dominate finals appearance. Not sure this one is enough. Make fun of Crosby all you want, but he got it done 3 times, once against a power house wings time included. Played well when he lost too.

 

[Albatros]

The greatest player ever got swept in his team’s first Finals appearance. It’s not unheard of.

...against the dynasty Islanders. The Panthers are a decent team, but they weren't heavy favorites here to start with.

 

[yeaher]

I was hoping the Oilers would win and this debate would all sort itself out. Making the finals and putting up a turd for the most part, I'm not sure if it hurts ot helps. Series isn't over yet, nor is his career. They may return next year and win.

I still feel he needed a cup, or a dominate finals appearance. Not sure this one is enough. Make fun of Crosby all you want, but he got it done 3 times, once against a power house wings time included. Played well when he lost too.

You are not sure if it hurts or helps. Let me help you, it hurts, a lot.

 

[PettersonHughes]

He always seems to come up with a bunch of points when it doesn't really matter. Maybe it'll be 5 points in game 2 of the Conference semis or in a game where his team is already down a handful of goals. I'd like to see him move the needle when his team needs it the most.

Agreed about this, empty stats and also hasn't shown he can carry the same way someone like Crosby, Mario or perhaps even Mackinnon can (as valuable as assists are, and Connor is racking them up, he still should be able to put the biscuit in the basket as the situation would require, and the reason that I bring up Nate is because he has a comparable speed burst but also the shot to get on the scoreboard off the rush). If Connor, Leon and Zach want a game 5 they'll have to be the big guns who get going instead of relying on depth guys like McLeod, Foegele and Kulak.

 

[crowfish]

Good player but he is always going to be in Crosby’s shadow. Just doesn’t have that extra gear

McDavid in these finals has looked better than Crosby has at any point in his career in the postseason. He literally has the same amount of points that Crosby had in 7 games when he got his first cup, except McDavid has played 3 games and has ran into one of the best goaltending performances in recent history. The Oiler have 1 goal with McDavid off the ice, meaning 100% of the attention can go to trying to stop him as nobody else is doing anything.

 

[Three On Zero]

McDavid in these finals has looked better than Crosby has at any point in his career in the postseason. He literally has the same amount of points that Crosby had in 7 games when he got his first cup, except McDavid has played 3 games and has ran into one of the best goaltending performances in recent history. The Oiler have 1 goal with McDavid off the ice, meaning 100% of the attention can go to trying to stop him as nobody else is doing anything.

Stopped reading at the first sentence as it’s blatantly wrong

 

[crowfish]

Stopped reading at the first sentence as it’s blatantly wrong

Nah, you just don't understand the concept that someone can play good and lose, and someone can play mediocre and win. It's not even a tough concept for a sport like hockey where there as so many variables to winning and losing.

 

[Three On Zero]

Nah, you just don't understand the concept that someone can play good and lose, and someone can play mediocre and win. It's not even a tough concept for a sport like hockey where there as so many variables to winning and losing.

So we agree McDavid is playing mediocre and losing

 

[Sniperberg]

 

[crowfish]

So we agree McDavid is playing mediocre and losing

He was all over the ice. His team blundered away the game and he still got the game within 1 goal in the 3rd and then set up a unreal chance for the tying goal which Bob robbed McLeod on. Should he use mind control from the bench to stop Skinner and Ceci from punting away the game next time?