Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[The Grim Reaper]

Most Americans have heard of Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, most have never heard of McDavid. Regardless of his skill, that will hurt his legacy. Dude needs to find a way out of castle black.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Most consecutive years in the top five in Hart trophy, NHL history

• Wayne Gretzky - 12x (1984 to 1991)
• Gordie Howe - 10x (1957 to 1966)
• Bobby Orr - 8x (1968 to 1975)
• Connor McDavid - 7x (2017 to 2023)
• Bobby Hull - 6x (1964 to 1969)
• Guy Lafleur - 6x (1975 to 1980)
• Bobby Clarke - 5x (1973 to 1977)
• Sidney Crosby - 5x (2013 to 2017)

Notable players who never accomplished this - Alex Ovechkin, Denis Potvin, Dominik Hasek, Doug Harvey, Eddie Shore, Howie Morenz, Jacques Plante, Jaromir Jagr, Jean Beliveau, Mario Lemieux (due to injuries), Mark Messier, Maurice Richard, Nicklas Lidstrom, Patrick Roy, Phil Esposito, Ray Bourque, Red Kelly, Stan Mikita

 

[Video Nasty]

Interesting how people hold injuries against certain players and not against others. Injuries are part of the game, crappy line mates are part of game. Otherwise mcdavid would have a cup. Would be interesting to see how edm would do with prime Barasso and Francis over RNH.

I’m the kind of hockey fan who can admire greatness and critique in nearly the same breath. I frequently wax poetry about Mario, but also point out that it’s nice that he had a team strong enough to withstand him missing almost half the regular season games and multiple playoff games during their back to back wins. I think I’ve written plenty about McDavid so that even casual browsers know my opinion on him.

 

[Mike C]

Most Americans have heard of Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, most have never heard of McDavid. Regardless of his skill, that will hurt his legacy. Dude needs to find a way out of castle black.

His legacy is not worthy without a cup. Until then he's just a guy with numbers

 

[Yultron]

McDavid needs a Stanley Cup , then I will agree with this but he needs a cup just one just like Ovechkin

 

[danny90]

60/70s era hockey was a joke compared to now and before that was barely competitive. McDavid is the best player of all time.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I’m the kind of hockey fan who can admire greatness and critique in nearly the same breath. I frequently wax poetry about Mario, but also point out that it’s nice that he had a team strong enough to withstand him missing almost half the regular season games and multiple playoff games during their back to back wins. I think I’ve written plenty about McDavid so that even casual browsers know my opinion on him.

That if Mcdavid can do something Gretzky and Lemieux can do it easily.

Most Americans have heard of Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, most have never heard of McDavid. Regardless of his skill, that will hurt his legacy. Dude needs to find a way out of castle black.

I thought we were talking bout career not fame. I can see Matthews being a lot more famous than Mcdavid being the top American player.

 

[Mike C]

Most consecutive years in the top five in Hart trophy, NHL history

• Wayne Gretzky - 12x (1984 to 1991)
• Gordie Howe - 10x (1957 to 1966)
• Bobby Orr - 8x (1968 to 1975)
• Connor McDavid - 7x (2017 to 2023)
• Bobby Hull - 6x (1964 to 1969)
• Guy Lafleur - 6x (1975 to 1980)
• Bobby Clarke - 5x (1973 to 1977)
• Sidney Crosby - 5x (2013 to 2017)

Notable players who never accomplished this - Alex Ovechkin, Denis Potvin, Dominik Hasek, Doug Harvey, Eddie Shore, Howie Morenz, Jacques Plante, Jaromir Jagr, Jean Beliveau, Mario Lemieux (due to injuries), Mark Messier, Maurice Richard, Nicklas Lidstrom, Patrick Roy, Phil Esposito, Ray Bourque, Red Kelly, Stan Mikita

Gretzky 4
Howe 4
Orr 2
McDavid ZERO
Hull 1
LaFleur 5
Clarke 2
Crosby 3

Enough with this guy already!

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I thought we were talking bout career not fame. I can see Matthews being a lot more famous than Mcdavid being the top American player.

I’ve never talked to you.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Gretzky 4
Howe 4
Orr 2
McDavid ZERO
Hull 1
LaFleur 5
Clarke 2
Crosby 3

Enough with this guy already!

Mcdavid just won the Hart this year what do you mean zero?

I’ve never talked to you.

No, but anyone can post about a comment on a public board. If you want a private conversation maybe a hockey board isn’t the place for it

 

[The Grim Reaper]

No, but anyone can post about a comment on a public board. If you want a private conversation maybe a hockey board isn’t the place for it

No idea the f*** you’re on about mate.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Gretzky 4
Howe 4
Orr 2
McDavid ZERO
Hull 1
LaFleur 5
Clarke 2
Crosby 3

Enough with this guy already!

Corey Perry 3 cups. More than Orr, Clarke and as many as Crosby.

 

[Mike C]

60/70s era hockey was a joke compared to now and before that was barely competitive. McDavid is the best player of all time.

Prime Gretzky was routinely plus 70. Orr was plus 80. Clarke plus 40. Lafleur plus 50.

McDavid has never been higher than plus 28

Let's get a grip on things shall we?

 

[Mike C]

Corey Perry 3 cups. More than Orr, Clarke and as many as Crosby.

He isn't in this conversation. He isn't better than these guys and he has one cup in 2007

The point is until McDavid wins a cup he'll be Dan Marino knocking on Brady, Montana, Elway door.

Charles Barkley/ Pat Ewing carrying the bags of all his NBA peers with rings

There is no place on Mount Rushmore for numbers with no title

Mcdavid just won the Hart this year what do you mean zero?


No, but anyone can post about a comment on a public board. If you want a private conversation maybe a hockey board isn’t the place for it

It's a Cup rundown my man

 

[Adam da bomb]

He isn't in this conversation. He isn't better than these guys and he has one cup in 2007

The point is until McDavid wins a cup he'll be Dan Marino knocking on Brady, Montana, Elway door.

Charles Barkley/ Pat Ewing carrying the bags of all his NBA peers with rings

There is no place on Mount Rushmore for numbers with no title


It's a Cup rundown my man

Which is a bit of a flawed argument since it’s a team game and one player only has so much impact. Ovie only has 1 cup despite a great career. Ray Bourque only has 1, so I guess Mcdavid can only enter conversation if he signs a 1 year contract to go to a stacked time at the end of his career.

 

[danny90]

Prime Gretzky was routinely plus 70. Orr was plus 80. Clarke plus 40. Lafleur plus 50.

McDavid has never been higher than plus 28

Let's get a grip on things shall we?

Proves my point. Try watching some old highlights of Gretzky and tell me that looks like competitive hockey, I’m sure some ladies in the ncaa could pot 70 over in the 80s.

 

[Mike C]

Which is a bit of a flawed argument since it’s a team game and one player only has so much impact. Ovie only has 1 cup despite a great career. Ray Bourque only has 1, so I guess Mcdavid can only enter conversation if he signs a 1 year contract to go to a stacked time at the end of his career.

Whatever it takes. The flip side of the coin is the flawed argument that 150 point seasons in the new millennium makes him better than the historical legends of the game

Saying he's the best of his time is one thing, saying he's the best ever is at best premature and at worst outlandish

Proves my point. Try watching some old highlights of Gretzky and tell me that looks like competitive hockey, I’m sure some ladies in the ncaa could pot 70 over in the 80s.

Gretzky made it look non competitive when he was on the ice very often

 

[danny90]

Whatever it takes. The flip side of the coin is the flawed argument that 150 point seasons in the new millennium makes him better than the historical legends of the game

Saying he's the best of his time is one thing, saying he's the best ever is at best premature and at worst outlandish


Gretzky made it look non competitive when he was on the ice very often

Players could barely skate

 

[Mike C]

Players could barely skate

Anders Lee says hello

 

[Jeremy Hronek]

Gretzky in a salary cap era, with 32 teams, doesn't win more than 1 or 2 cups.

 

[Mike C]

Gretzky in a salary cap era, with 32 teams, doesn't win more than 1 or 2 cups.

Debatable

 

[MM917]

To say the oilers-knights wasn’t close is disingenuous. The Avs were on another level but the oilers knights was extremely close. Edmonton was up late in the second in game 5 in a 2-2 series. That’s by far the most trouble the golden knights were in at any point in this playoffs.

Every good team has cap trouble right now. That’s the reality of Covid. This isn’t exclusively an oiler thing. Every contending team in the nhl is in the same boat. The oilers are right there. They’re a goalie getting hot away.

4-2 series and if you watched the games it was clear Vegas was the much better team and again zero reason to think the Oilers would have beat either Dallas or Florida after Vegas.

Every team has cap issues, few of the teams near the top have the massive holes the Oilers do. And if we are using goalie getting hot to say a team is a contender than your list of contenders is a hell of a lot bigger than mine.

 

[MessierII]

4-2 series and if you watched the games it was clear Vegas was the much better team and again zero reason to think the Oilers would have beat either Dallas or Florida after Vegas.

Every team has cap issues, few of the teams near the top have the massive holes the Oilers do. And if we are using goalie getting hot to say a team is a contender than your list of contenders is a hell of a lot bigger than mine.

If the oilers aren’t a contender then who is? Out of curiosity who do you consider a contender?

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Prime Gretzky was routinely plus 70. Orr was plus 80. Clarke plus 40. Lafleur plus 50.

McDavid has never been higher than plus 28

The +/- differentiates the true greats from the scoring artistes who can't be bothered much with that defense stuff.

 

[crowfish]

Gretzky in a salary cap era, with 32 teams, doesn't win more than 1 or 2 cups.

Exactly. Gretzky won his cups in a 21 team league. He left Edmonton in his prime and never won another one, yet Edmonton won again without him. If the best player off alltime can leave your team and your team can win the cup, that really shows how little control any one player has.

Each year that goes by it becoming harder to win a cup.

Look at Edmonton this year. Probably the first time they were ever true contenders since McDavid joined. The team that knocked them out was a complete powerhouse and didn't even exist when McDavid was drafted. Vegas took advantage of sophsisticated cap manuevering, was given the best expansion roster of all time etc etc. Not making excuses, just pointing out the reality of how hard it is to win the Cup these days.