Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[pizza line]

He jcan’t be considered top 5 without a gold medal or cup ring.

I’m sorry the team (edm) and politics out of his control, but the hard truth is he needs to win it all to be in consideration in GOAT

 

[PULSATING]

The most imbalanced era was around 1985 to 1995
Skaters got much better over a short amount of time, while goaltending was a decade behind still mostly playing rod hockey

Just look at this ''top 10'' Lemieux goal, Theses are the last couple of years where goalie where, ''by today standard'' a bit clumsy.

Decking the defenders appear 4-5 times more difficult than putting it past the goalie.

Not trying to argue that Mcdavid has dominated his peers more than Mario but it is a lil funny comparing that video to this

 

[MCR74]

The league is closer in talent than it ever has.
Long gone are the chain-smoking, talentless plugs that were plentiful on every team, zero IQ defense and midget goalies with phone book pads.
That's what made the great players back then extra great.

What McDavid is doing now in an era where talent in the league is much closer to each other than ever before, is truly incredible. I won't say he's the 2nd best player of all time, but the dominance over his peers is truly exceptional in a time where the talent pool is this tight.

Mario and Gretz were 20 years ahead of the rest of the league.

I mean... C'mon.

View attachment 723810


See what? Domination over his peers in the regular season and post season? Seth Rorabaugh, is that you?

The post season lasted two rounds. He needs more.

 

[Coffey]

The post season lasted two rounds. He needs more.

I'm sorry you don't get it.

Not trying to argue that Mcdavid has dominated his peers more than Mario but it is a lil funny comparing that video to this

Unfortunately most boomers, gen-xers and some millenials won't see the difference in league quality from then to now.

 

[tom_servo]

He jcan’t be considered top 5 without a gold medal or cup ring.

I’m sorry the team (edm) and politics out of his control, but the hard truth is he needs to win it all to be in consideration in GOAT

Don't agree.

The team is out of his control, you just said it. Same as it was for Gretzky. Hell they sold him for cash and still won a Cup. Does that undermine him as a player? Of course not.

If Wayne had the same records with no Cup he'd still be #1.

 

[Coffey]

Don't agree.

The team is out of his control, you just said it. Same as it was for Gretzky. Hell they sold him for cash and still won a Cup. Does that undermine him as a player? Of course not.

If Wayne had the same records with no Cup he'd still be #1.

People forget that Wayne couldn't win without Edmonton, but Edmonton could win without him.

It's a good reminder of things working out for some players.

Like Ray going to the Avs or Dominik to the Wings.

 

[McPoyle]

He jcan’t be considered top 5 without a gold medal or cup ring.

Nonsense. McDavid can't help that there has been zero international hockey in the last decade. Ryan Smyth has Olympic gold, is his career more substantial than McDavid's because of this?

 

[Coffey]

Nonsense. McDavid can't help that there has been zero international hockey in the last decade. Ryan Smyth has Olympic gold, is his career more substantial than McDavid's because of this?

People will say and think of anything to diminish his talent and current accomplishments.

 

[rynryn]

he's the GOAT to me now that he came out and said the NHL should allow Pride jerseys.

 

[Coffey]

he's the GOAT to me now that he came out and said the NHL should allow Pride jerseys.

There's a lot of love behind this mean mug, ryn.

 

[rynryn]

There's a lot of love behind this mean mug, ryn.

i've just never looked deep enough :'(

 

[Albatros]

The most imbalanced era was around 1985 to 1995
Skaters got much better over a short amount of time, while goaltending was a decade behind still mostly playing rod hockey

Just look at this ''top 10'' Lemieux goal, Theses are the last couple of years where goalie where, ''by today standard'' a bit clumsy.

Decking the defenders appear 4-5 times more difficult than putting it past the goalie.

Lemieux scored way more goals against John Vanbiesbrouck than against any other goalie. He might have been diminutive by modern standards, but also more agile in his prime than about any modern goalie. Followed by Ron Hextall who was also very quick and aggressive.

McDavid is probably doing that against Markström or someone like that, a big body that moves methodically but also is ultimately more rather than less clumsy I'd argue.

 

[Spektre]

I guess Gretzky will be #3 now as they’re both behind Lemieux

 

[SkinsFan09]

McDavid has been completely head and shoulders above everyone else once in a normal season. No disrespect to the COVID season with the weird scheduling.

He's going to have to repeat this past season like 5-6x to start getting into 99/66 territory.

 

[SkinsFan09]

People pointing out defensemen in the 80s are forgetting that Lemieux was on pace for 111 points in 2003 when Forsberg won the Art Ross with 106 points. He was 38.

 

[Video Nasty]

Gretzky, in the late 90s, at 37ish years old, dead puck era, with a broken body and failing back, on a dismal NYR team with practically no support besides declining versions of John MacLean, Adam Graves, and Brian Leetch, still scored over 90 points and led the league in assists. He was pacing with prime Sakic, Forsberg, Lindros, etc. Only prime Jagr was a class above.

Jagr, at 43 years old in 2015-16, scored 66 points, good for 21st in the league and only 5 points less than 30-year old Ovechkin.

The greatest players transcend eras and would dominate in any time. Gretzky would likely be putting up 150+ points every year if he played now. Don't forget, he would have had modern training, nutrition, skating, equipment, etc. just like McDavid does.

A great side effect of McDavid dropping 153 points last season is that I even more firmly believe that Gretzky and Lemieux would replicate what they did. Some talents simply transcend eras and it doesn’t really matter what the scoring environment is, they would still get theirs. It should no longer be that much of a stretch for people to think that Gretzky and Lemieux couldn’t put up another half a point per game.

 

[WarriorofTime]

People pointing out defensemen in the 80s are forgetting that Lemieux was on pace for 111 points in 2003 when Forsberg won the Art Ross with 106 points. He was 38.

111 isn't that impressive (relatively for GOAT talk and such), and in reality he had 91. Lemieux's last season with 100+ was 1997.

 

[Video Nasty]

People pointing out defensemen in the 80s are forgetting that Lemieux was on pace for 111 points in 2003 when Forsberg won the Art Ross with 106 points. He was 38.

It’s even better than that really. He had about a 15+ point lead over everyone who ultimately finished ahead of him in the race at the halfway mark with 68 points in 40 games (41 team games) on a bad team. Injuries, shipping Kovalev out, and the remnants of that roster led to him finishing with just 23 points in his final 27 games (41 team games). So yeah, as late as early 2003 as a 37 year old with his history, he was shredding the league.

Crosby and Ovechkin made their debuts just 2 1/2 years later.

 

[tom_servo]

People pointing out defensemen in the 80s are forgetting that Lemieux was on pace for 111 points in 2003 when Forsberg won the Art Ross with 106 points. He was 38.

Which was a substantial slowdown from his midseason pace. Pens shipped out Kovalev before the deadline and went full tank. Mario's numbers dropped.

To your point though, Lemieux was still dominating what we'd consider dead-puck era stars.

 

[SkinsFan09]

111 isn't that impressive (relatively for GOAT talk and such), and in reality he had 91. Lemieux's last season with 100+ was 1997.

At age 38 in the lowest scoring era in history it certainly is.

 

[WarriorofTime]

At age 38 in the lowest scoring era in history it certainly is.

Relatively with context sure, but what does Lemieux having 91 points in '03 do to suggest that McDavid can't hang with him? It's just obscuring points. Presumably nobody is saying Lemieux was bad at hockey.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

The post season lasted two rounds. He needs more.

Isn't that how long Howe's post seasons were?

 

[Adam da bomb]

It’s even better than that really. He had about a 15+ point lead over everyone who ultimately finished ahead of him in the race at the halfway mark with 68 points in 40 games (41 team games) on a bad team. Injuries, shipping Kovalev out, and the remnants of that roster led to him finishing with just 23 points in his final 27 games (41 team games). So yeah, as late as early 2003 as a 37 year old with his history, he was shredding the league.

Crosby and Ovechkin made their debuts just 2 1/2 years later.

Interesting how people hold injuries against certain players and not against others. Injuries are part of the game, crappy line mates are part of game. Otherwise mcdavid would have a cup. Would be interesting to see how edm would do with prime Barasso and Francis over RNH.

 

[MM917]

How are they not? The only teams to have taken them down the last couple seasons are the Stanley cup champions.

First the beat by the Champs is a pretty weak defense when they were beat by them in the 2nd round/Conference final and neither series were close at all. It isn't like the Oilers were close to guaranteed to beat the teams they would have gone on to play after the Avs or Golden Knights. If they lost in the SCF then you make that argument maybe.

Second, they are starting to run into cap trouble already so are going to struggle to keep the team that hasn't been good enough already together let alone improve in the areas that they need to improve on. That is a major concern when the poster said McDavid has a quote "good chance to win at SC in Edmonton."

 

[MessierII]

First the beat by the Champs is a pretty weak defense when they were beat by them in the 2nd round/Conference final and neither series were close at all. It isn't like the Oilers were close to guaranteed to beat the teams they would have gone on to play after the Avs or Golden Knights. If they lost in the SCF then you make that argument maybe.

Second, they are starting to run into cap trouble already so are going to struggle to keep the team that hasn't been good enough already together let alone improve in the areas that they need to improve on. That is a major concern when the poster said McDavid has a quote "good chance to win at SC in Edmonton."

To say the oilers-knights wasn’t close is disingenuous. The Avs were on another level but the oilers knights was extremely close. Edmonton was up late in the second in game 5 in a 2-2 series. That’s by far the most trouble the golden knights were in at any point in this playoffs.

Every good team has cap trouble right now. That’s the reality of Covid. This isn’t exclusively an oiler thing. Every contending team in the nhl is in the same boat. The oilers are right there. They’re a goalie getting hot away.