Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Orr
Mario
Howe
Gretzky


Then the next tier- in no particular order
Stasny
Trottier
Bossy
Hawerchuk
Perrault
Jean Beliveau
Gainey
Dionne




Then the current crop
Crosby
O.V.
McDavid

In a few more years Crosby, O.V. and Conner will be competing to get into the second tier. They all make that level, but Mc David in particular needs a couple more seasons.

edit- I'm sure Ov, Sid and McDavid will be in the next tier, at the least, but I'm not putting them there until their careers are over.

This man really put the likes of Stastny, Bossy, Hawerchuk, and Bob f***ing Gainey ahead of McDavid lmfao.

 

[BouchBaby]

Mario scored 160 points in 60 games in a season where he paused his play due to Radiation therapy for cancer.

Not only that, but he comes back to win the scoring race in that same season.

That year, plus the 199 point season are what will always have Mario above anyone not named Gretzky, in terms of forwards.

Howe was fantastic for so long, and he was incredibly dominant as well.

Goalies dont jump out of the way of the puck anymore though

 

[BouchBaby]

The massive change in Goalies makes this comparison between the old greats to the new difficult to gauge. I don't care if player equipment is alot better, with improvements in goaltending technique and equipment with all the pre-scouting with video done on the best players to try and contain them, it is harder to score in this era. McDavid is the GOAT in my opinion

 

[independent observer]

McDavid continues to improve which is remarkable. Most players peak statistically much earlier… he has great work ethic and he understands when to use his speed better than before.

Individually he is up with the best but when all is said and done team success is what truly counts and in this regard he still has ways to go…

If he will not suffer major injury and wins a couple of cups he will retire as a top 5 player…

Lemieux, gretzky, orr, mcdavid and bossy

 

[Duder54]

Yes you need talent around you but the Oilers are a perpetual playoff team so they are there when the chips are down.

Mario (like.Crosby), joined a team that was not very good. Bottom feeders. Both lead their teams to multiple Cups. Not to mention both scored the wnning goals in major International tournaments as well.

Wayne had a stacked team, but won four Cups and another Finals in LA.

This will ALWAYS be the primary measuring stick in sports.

Out of curiosity, what was the salary cap in Mario and Wayne’s era?

 

[Gurn]

This man really put the likes of Stastny, Bossy, Hawerchuk, and Bob f***ing Gainey ahead of McDavid lmfao.

did you ever see any of those guys play?
I'm guessing not, as folks have trouble gauging players they've never seen.
Kind of why I don't mention guys like Howie Meeker, Rocket Richard and the like; they were before my time.
Bossy was the best goal scorer I've ever seen- and also racked up assists.
Stasny was a prolific scorer, mostly on bad teams- which is what hinders him, and McDavid
Hawerchuck was an awesome player, but not in the top 4
Gainey was considered the best all round player by many- including the Soviet hockey federation.

But this is all opinion- so no need to laugh.

 

[CTHabsfan]

The massive change in Goalies makes this comparison between the old greats to the new difficult to gauge. I don't care if player equipment is alot better, with improvements in goaltending technique and equipment with all the pre-scouting with video done on the best players to try and contain them, it is harder to score in this era. McDavid is the GOAT in my opinion

There was a total of nine players who scored 100 or more points during Mario Lemieux's 199 point season, back when goalies would "jump out of the way of the puck". This season, when it's so much harder to score against super awesome goaltenders, there are eight players with 100+ points, one with 99 points, and three others with 98 points.

 

[Coffey]

This man really put the likes of Stastny, Bossy, Hawerchuk, and Bob f***ing Gainey ahead of McDavid lmfao.

Old men have a hard time letting go of the glory days

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yes. Now dominate multiple times and you enter the conversation.

He did
In 20-21

 

[McVespa99]

He might end up 1st if he passes/gets close to Gretzky in Rosses/Harts/Lindsay

But the best and greatest player to play the sport of hockey is Mario Lemieux

The 2001 season is for me his most amazing. 76 pts in 43 games in the dead puck era coming off three years of being retired. He was better than 2023 Mcdavid by a significant margin

Mcdavid would be Draisaitl to Lemieux

Nah

 

[McVespa99]

There was a total of nine players who scored 100 or more points during Mario Lemieux's 199 point season, back when goalies would "jump out of the way of the puck". This season, when it's so much harder to score against super awesome goaltenders, there are eight players with 100+ points, one with 99 points, and three others with 98 points.

Because the players are better now. For example McDavid

 

[CTHabsfan]

Because the players are better now. For example McDavid

So it was easier to score back in Lemieux's day because goaltenders were crap, but it's easier to score now because players are better?????

 

[hamzarocks]

Nah

Yeah

 

[McVespa99]

It is very hard to decide who th GOAT is between eras. I truly believe if you sent McDavid as he is now back in time to the 80's he would score 150 goals. Pretty easily. With the tiny crappy goalies he would just stickhandle the puck into the net. But what does that mean?
If you took Gretzky and moved him forward to now with modern training, diet, equipment etc I believe he would probably still be the Goat. But all era adjusted nonsense aside who really knows? All I know is I watched Gretzky's career live and to me he is still the Greatest because he was so much better than everyone else at the time. BUT, McDavid as an individual player is certainly more skilled, faster, stronger, better hands, shot, even passing, etc etc.

 

[mattihp]

It is very hard to decide who th GOAT is between eras. I truly believe if you sent McDavid as he is now back in time to the 80's he would score 150 goals. Pretty easily. With the tiny crappy goalies he would just stickhandle the puck into the net. But what does that mean?
If you took Gretzky and moved him forward to now with modern training, diet, equipment etc I believe he would probably still be the Goat. But all era adjusted nonsense aside who really knows? All I know is I watched Gretzky's career live and to me he is still the Greatest because he was so much better than everyone else at the time. BUT, McDavid as an individual player is certainly more skilled, faster, stronger, better hands, shot, even passing, etc etc.

More hits were ok by then. Most teams had three or four guys who hit like Big Buff from a standstill. Not to mention the open ice hitting that was allowed.

Check out a game from the late 80s, early 90s and start counting hits that would be a 6 game or more suspension today. Don't make it a drinking game.

More players had to stop playing prematurely because of injuries. McDavid would become a target very quickly.

 

[McVespa99]

So it was easier to score back in Lemieux's day because goaltenders were crap, but it's easier to score now because players are better?????

Im saying it evens out somewhat. How even exactly its impossible to say. There are 4th liners in the league now that have more skill than 2nd liners did in the 80's. Also shots are far more accurate and there is more work done on release, changing angles of shots, video scouting etc. . A guy like McDavid, Drai, Matthews, Pasta etc would kill in the 80's. Goalies back in the day were not as good but players were not as good either. Now goalies are better but so are skaters. If you took a current goalie and sent him back in time pretty much noone would score.

 

[Hockeylife2018]

There was a total of nine players who scored 100 or more points during Mario Lemieux's 199 point season, back when goalies would "jump out of the way of the puck". This season, when it's so much harder to score against super awesome goaltenders, there are eight players with 100+ points, one with 99 points, and three others with 98 points.

It's almost as if...wait for it....

The league got better overall

 

[McVespa99]

More hits were ok by then. Most teams had three or four guys who hit like Big Buff from a standstill. Not to mention the open ice hitting that was allowed.

Check out a game from the late 80s, early 90s and start counting hits that would be a 6 game or more suspension today. Don't make it a drinking game.

More players had to stop playing prematurely because of injuries. McDavid would become a target very quickly.

Thats where I think you are wrong. McDavid NEVER has his head down like guys in the past, Lindros, Kariya etc. Yes he would have to adjust his game but lets be real. I have a hard time seeing him taking many open ice hits when guys wouldnt get close to him most of the time. He skates around current players like they dont exist half the time. Those big bruising dmen back in the day could barely skate compared to current players. McDavid would get hit but he gets hit now. Could be be injured? Sure. But he has been injured by bad hits now.

 

[WarriorofTime]

McDavid is gonna blow passed Mario in career points. And Mario played in the easy to score era. Mario also should have gotten more cups for how stacked his team was. The trapping teams have him fits.

 

[mattihp]

Thats where I think you are wrong. McDavid NEVER has his head down like guys in the past, Lindros, Kariya etc. Yes he would have to adjust his game but lets be real. I have a hard time seeing him taking many open ice hits when guys wouldnt get close to him most of the time. He skates around current players like they dont exist half the time. Those big bruising dmen back in the day could barely skate compared to current players. McDavid would get hit but he gets hit now. Could be be injured? Sure. But he has been injured by bad hits now.

I do see what you mean, but players now have been conditioned by the post clutch and grab NHL and act as if obstruction penalties are still there. The defensemen were worse skaters, sure. But the hits they threw being late and not called on made them much more dangerous.

 

[wetcoast]

Orr
Mario
Howe
Gretzky

I'd don't think that I have ever seen a top 4 list with this order before but it didn't prepare me for the next tier at all

Then the next tier- in no particular order
Stasny
Trottier
Bossy
Hawerchuk
Perrault
Jean Beliveau
Gainey
Dionne

Gainey, Perrault and Hawerchuk/Stastny?

Then hockey seems to not exist until after the lockout again.

Then the current crop
Crosby
O.V.
McDavid

In a few more years Crosby, O.V. and Conner will be competing to get into the second tier. They all make that level, but Mc David in particular needs a couple more seasons.

edit- I'm sure Ov, Sid and McDavid will be in the next tier, at the least, but I'm not putting them there until their careers are over.

I'm really curious what McDavid has to do to pass Bob Gainey here?

 

[Leafsfan74]

Out of curiosity, what was the salary cap in Mario and Wayne’s era?

There are numerous difficulties in comparing eras. In the end, it first revolves around ones successes relative to their peers, then to historical successes.

Crosby is still a tier above everyone else for this reason, even as he has aged and his team is no longer Cup threat.

Guiding your team to one Cup is a big deal. To reach the Finals four times and win in three times is legendary in todays era. The Pens weren't as deep as say T.B has been, but he lead them to victories nonetheless.

 

[McVespa99]

I do see what you mean, but players now have been conditioned by the post clutch and grab NHL and act as if obstruction penalties are still there. The defensemen were worse skaters, sure. But the hits they threw being late and not called on made them much more dangerous.

No question the game was rougher then.

I'd don't think that I have ever seen a top 4 list with this order before but it didn't prepare me for the next tier at all


Gainey, Perrault and Hawerchuk/Stastny?

Then hockey seems to not exist until after the lockout again.

I'm really curious what McDavid has to do to pass Bob Gainey here?

I'm going to say "be born" but maybe that is just me. Lol

 

[Dust]

The only thing that would hurt modern players going back to play in previous era's would be injuries. Some of the career ending injuries in previous era's are no longer career enders with modern medicine.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Which of the big 4 ever got swept?

The one that played on a Chiarelli built team.