Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Howe gets so underrated because he doesn't have video game numbers. Look at his lead over competition. His peak is right up there with Lemieux. Look at his 52-53 season. 49 goals, 2nd place (his linemate Lindsay) 32 and the closest non teammate at 30.

Lemieux won an art ross by 12 points while playing 24 less games than the second leader scorer. That is domination Howe never sniffed

 

[wetcoast]

So Mario lemieux having 60 goals and 160 points in 60 games which is 92 and 213 points in 80 is me reaching blindly in saying Gretzkys 92 and 215 was in jeopardy? What do you think in 20 more games Mario was gonna score 15 points? They guy was gonna score between 210-220. Whether he hit 215 who knows but he 100 percent would have been close.

I guess you glossed over the home road splits and the lack of back to back games probably on longer road trips I haven't broken it down that much.

either way so what if Mario has the absolute best peak between the 2, McDavid might end up with 8 or 9 Art ross trophies and he will already match Mario's 3 Hart trophies this year.

Mario simply is catchable.

 

[GrumpyKoala]

But really shouldn't be.

Not one to diminish the history of the league but not having to play against Russians, Americans, Swedes, Finns, Czechs, now Germans even, that's a huge mark against IMO.

Look at Howe's scoring titles and look at the nationality of the players in the top 20-30. All Canadian. What a tiny talent pool to compete against.

Mario equalled Howe's hardware but did it against Jagr, Forsberg, Fedorov, Selanne, Bure, Modano etc as well as the best Canadians.

Mario said himslef that Howe is the better player.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I guess you glossed over the home road splits and the lack of back to back games probably on longer road trips I haven't broken it down that much.

either way so what if Mario has the absolute best peak between the 2, McDavid might end up with 8 or 9 Art ross trophies and he will already match Mario's 3 Hart trophies this year.

Mario simply is catchable.

Let's not forget Mario lost a hart and an art ross as a 20 year old sophomore to a 215 point peak Gretzky. Mario finished second in points and hart voting. Let's not also forget that lemieux was robbed blind of the hart while leading the league in goals by 15 with 85 and points by 31 with 199 also to Wayne Gretzky. How would it look if say kucherov won the hart this year even though mcdavid is doing what he's doing? Fair?

So without the consensus best player by most people all time beating and robbing him he would have 7 art ross and 5 Harts. So maybe your the one blindly looking at things without context

 

[wetcoast]

Lemieux won an art ross by 12 points while playing 24 less games than the second leader scorer. That is domination Howe never sniffed

Howe gets so underrated because he doesn't have video game numbers. Look at his lead over competition. His peak is right up there with Lemieux. Look at his 52-53 season. 49 goals, 2nd place (his linemate Lindsay) 32 and the closest non teammate at 30.

You are missing something here though as back in Howe's day teams didn't run up the score like they did in Mario's time and also Power plays and thus PP scoring was much less than during Mario's heyday.

52-53 when Howe won the Art Ross by a score of 96-61 (Lindsay was his team mate) they had several high scoring games against Boston and the Black Hawks but also had 9 games with 1 GF and 8 games shutout and that says something about the playing style and dynamic of the league back then.

The 92-93 season had an extra ordinary number of career years for guys and scoring for everyone was way up so you need to account for that somewhat right?

1992-93 NHL Skater Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the Skater Statistics for the 1992-93 NHL season on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

44 guys had 85+ points that year perhaps do some research?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Mario said himslef that Howe is the better player.

Gretzky would say Tanner Glass was better than him.

 

[wetcoast]

Let's not forget Mario lost a hart and an art ross as a 20 year old sophomore to a 215 point peak Gretzky. Mario finished second in points and hart voting. Let's not also forget that lemieux was robbed blind of the hart while leading the league in goals by 15 with 85 and points by 31 with 199 also to Wayne Gretzky. How would it look if say kucherov won the hart this year even though mcdavid is doing what he's doing? Fair?

So without the consensus best player by most people all time beating and robbing him he would have 7 art ross and 5 Harts. So maybe your the one blindly looking at things without context

If you want to go that route then consider the Hall Hart year and the year McDavid got injured but heck at the end of the day I doubt it matter how many Art Ross and Hart trophies McDavid gets you will go PEAK so you have already made your mind up here.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

You are missing something here though as back in Howe's day teams didn't run up the score like they did in Mario's time and also Power plays and thus PP scoring was much less than during Mario's heyday.

52-53 when Howe won the Art Ross by a score of 96-61 (Lindsay was his team mate) they had several high scoring games against Boston and the Black Hawks but also had 9 games with 1 GF and 8 games shutout and that says something about the playing style and dynamic of the league back then.

The 92-93 season had an extra ordinary number of career years for guys and scoring for everyone was way up so you need to account for that somewhat right?

1992-93 NHL Skater Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the Skater Statistics for the 1992-93 NHL season on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

44 guys had 85+ points that year perhaps do some research?

You also have to take into account how accurate the stats even are. In the 50s no video replay nobody verifying etc. Was much more of that in the 90s. Safer to say 160 in 60 in 93 is much more bullet proof that stats from 52 wouldn't you say?

 

[GrumpyKoala]

Yeah Gretzky is full of shit, calling Uwe Krupp or Jeff Beukeboom better, How many time Mario called someone better than him ?

 

[Holls Blackmail]

Maybe as an offensive player.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

If you want to go that route then consider the Hall Hart year and the year McDavid got injured but heck at the end of the day I doubt it matter how many Art Ross and Hart trophies McDavid gets you will go PEAK so you have already made your mind up here.

Mcdavid missed the playoffs that is the only reason he lost. He wasn't robbed everyone knows a huge criteria for the hart is making the playoffs. Mackinnon deserved that hart he was robbed. I'm just showing you that just because McDavid might finish with more harts or ross doesn't paint the full picture as he wasn't competing against prime Wayne f***ing gretzky

 

[3074326]

Maybe as an offensive player.

I mean.. yes? lol

 

[WarriorofTime]

The 93 season was 84 game schedule. 2.67 ppg is 224 points. In 80 games it would have been 92 goals and 213 points. Gretzkys records were in jeopardy for sure if Mario played at least 80.

But he didn’t because Mario would rather eat cheeseburgers than stay in shape

 

[BlueSeal]

If this is him turning the corner at 26, I’d make some popcorn and enjoy the show. Wow.

 

[socko]

Gretzky would say Tanner Glass was better than him.

And he would never actually mean it, but would keep a straight face. He's got skills other than just hockey.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

The 93 season was 84 game schedule. 2.67 ppg is 224 points. In 80 games it would have been 92 goals and 213 points. Gretzkys records were in jeopardy for sure if Mario played at least 80.

coulda shoulda woulda

 

[abo9]

At the end of the day, I think "Big 4" expands to "Big 5" in terms of pantheon.

Gretzky is obviously at the top. Howe's peak might be lower, but I think his legacy is important to be recognized as a pioneer. Orr and Lemieux peaked high enough that there's no real question about their talent.

I can't see McDavid "dislodging" any of those legends, but he's on the way to join them in a very exclusive club.

Those who argue Crosby are out to lunch, Crosby was (still is) an incredible talent to witness, but he's not in that category of players.

 

[MessierII]

Mcdavid missed the playoffs that is the only reason he lost. He wasn't robbed everyone knows a huge criteria for the hart is making the playoffs. Mackinnon deserved that hart he was robbed. I'm just showing you that just because McDavid might finish with more harts or ross doesn't paint the full picture as he wasn't competing against prime Wayne f***ing gretzky

Mario also missed the playoffs as a 20 year old in the year your referencing though.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Mario also missed the playoffs as a 20 year old in the year your referencing though.

He finished second in voting though

 

[MessierII]

He finished second in voting though

Obviously but were you not making the case he was robbed or had unfortunate timing going against Wayne? He had 4 first place votes as it was a runaway for Wayne and rightfully so.

 

[NeelyWasAWarrior]

I can see an argument to be made but a lot will still say Orr/Howe. I’m not sure I’d be one of them though, McDavid is pretty spectacular.

Rightfully so. Orr dominated both offensively and defensively. He was like Mario on offense and as good as he was on O, he was just as good on D.

As much as I like McDavid, he has to win several cups and keep playing like this for a good while longer to have a shot at passing Orr. Maybe pass 2000 points. Orr was just too remarkable at both ends to be slighted in his ranking in any way. The benchmark needs to be really really high for McDavid.

 

[T REX]

Maybe?

Too early

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

I'd take Doug Gilmour on my team before Mcdavid any day of the week. And the warrior. would destroy Mcdavid.......

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

This is a bad argument if you have Bobby Orr at #1

 

[Brent Burns]

He is already the best player to ever play the game of ice hockey. The rest is semantic bullshit