Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

It's within reach certainly.

 

[KevinRedkey]

He really doesnt.

Howe's 6 Art Rosses by margin of victory

33.8%
30.3%
24.6%
20.9%
6.2%
4.7%

McDavid's 4 Art Rosses

25.0%
12.4%
7.0%
5.9%

McDavid is currently 28.4% ahead of Draisailt

Howe had 6 Harts and 12 times a finalist.

McDavid is about to win his 3rd Hart and will have been a finalist 5 times.

You can look at their VsX7s.
Howe: 125.5 (only behind Gretzky and Esposito)
McDavid: 104.5 (will be around 115 at the end of the year)

Now do the same but take out Europeans from McDavid's totals because they basically didn't play in Howe's era. It was a freaking beer league compared to what it is today.

 

[HFpapi]

Now do the same but take out Europeans from McDavid's totals because they basically didn't play in Howe's era. It was a freaking beer league compared to what it is today.

McDavid currently up 44 points on the next highest Canadian but they don't wanna hear that.

Now do the same but take out Europeans from McDavid's totals because they basically didn't play in Howe's era. It was a freaking beer league compared to what it is today.

Not just Europeans btw, Americans too. They were very few and far between in Howe's day but now they produce elite players basically at the same rate as Canada.

Howe's competition came nearly exclusively from Ontario and Quebec with half of their present day population. The fact that McDavid still might surpass him in scoring totals is really something.

 

[Weztex]

Hockey was in slow motion in the 50’s and 60’s, watch video of Orr, the players he played against were horribly slow. Is what it is.

Everybody knows that people back then (Homo erectus?) weren’t physically able to go as fast as ultra-modern genetically modified Homo sapiens.

Glad you didn’t fall in the trap to believe that the skates were not comparable at all, that the equipment was a lot heavier, that the training methods were light years less developed, that today’s quality of ice was impossible to achieve and that the 2 line pass was slowing the game down. Who in his right mind would believe this has a noticeable impact on the speed of the game?

Orr was an average player against barely multicellular organisms. He’d be lucky to get the passing grade in high school phys ed.

 

[Crosby2010]

To be honest, while he has skyrocketed this year in terms of production I think he was even steven with Crosby before this year (careers at the same age). We forget that Sid himself scored a ton back then. And on a PPG basis it was similar. Not even throwing in the playoff career.

Let's just wait though. McDavid turned 26. He will get his 5th Art Ross this year and 3rd Hart. 4th Lindsay too. If I had to take a pick I would say this season is probably Mario's 5th best in comparison. 1988, 1989, nope. 1993 nope. I would also say 1996 nope. Mario had 2.3 PPG that year. It is years like 1990, 1992 and maybe he surpassed Mario in 1986. And we haven't even gotten to Orr yet. Let's just see first if he plays long enough to have a career as good as Sid's. By the way, I am cheering for McDavid for sure.

 

[thewave]

I could see him being seen ahead of howe

Tough to put him ahead of gretzky lemieux Orr unless he shifts another gear.

I'd say he is still in the crosby level for now

He exceeds Orr. He is right there with Wayne and Mario and will for certain surpass Mario who simply had major health issues. Had he not had that he would be right there with Wayne most likely. Era adjusted McDavid is absolutely in with them.

 

[Acallabeth]

He exceeds Orr. He is right there with Wayne and Mario and will for certain surpass Mario who simply had major health issues. Had he not had that he would be right there with Wayne most likely. Era adjusted McDavid is absolutely in with them.

But there's a massive amount of educated people supporting the opinion that Orr was better than Mario

 

[Weztex]

He exceeds Orr. He is right there with Wayne and Mario and will for certain surpass Mario who simply had major health issues. Had he not had that he would be right there with Wayne most likely. Era adjusted McDavid is absolutely in with them.

How does McDavid exceeds Orr?

Orr has 8 Norris trophies. That’s one for every season he was healthy except for his rookie season. Not a single one of those wins was a close call.

He won 3 Hart trophies (which are notoriously swayed in forwards favor) and managed to be a finalist in 7(!!) straight seasons.

He won 2 Art Ross (did I tell you he was a d-man?), and was awarded the Conn Smythe in both his Stanley Cup wins. All while redefining the way an entire position is played.

If McDavid retires today, good luck making a rational argument for him to rank ahead of Orr. There’s none.

 

[McRpro]

He exceeds Orr. He is right there with Wayne and Mario and will for certain surpass Mario who simply had major health issues. Had he not had that he would be right there with Wayne most likely. Era adjusted McDavid is absolutely in with them.

If McDavid has surpassed Orr(he hasn't) then he has by default also surpassed Mario.

 

[blundluntman]

He exceeds Orr. He is right there with Wayne and Mario and will for certain surpass Mario who simply had major health issues. Had he not had that he would be right there with Wayne most likely. Era adjusted McDavid is absolutely in with them.

No he doesn't. Bobby Orr produced similarily offensively while also being one of the best defenders in the league. His peak is up there with Gretzky and some would argue he was better.

 

[thewave]

But there's a massive amount of educated people supporting the opinion that Orr was better than Mario

Just Bruins fans and the elderly chime in on that.

McDavid is in another world athletically compared to Orr. To the point that if you watch clip for clip in the era where tenders wore shinpads for gear. You'd laugh at how silly you are.

Bobby Orr as the best player ever is Don Cherry thing only.

No he doesn't. Bobby Orr produced similarily offensively while also being one of the best defenders in the league. His peak is up there with Gretzky and some would argue he was better.

Bobby Orr was great for his time but in reality is the product of older peoples faulty memory. Greatest ever D.

If McDavid played in the Orr era, he would be a 200+ pts player

 

[blundluntman]

Just Bruins fans and the elderly chime in on that.

McDavid is in another world athletically compared to Orr. To the point that if you watch clip for clip in the era where tenders wore shinpads for gear. You'd laugh at how silly you are.

Bobby Orr as the best player ever is Don Cherry thing only.



Bobby Orr was great for his time but in reality is the product of older peoples faulty memory. Greatest ever D.

Except he's not but okay

 

[thewave]

If McDavid has surpassed Orr(he hasn't) then he has by default also surpassed Mario.

Give me a break. If you put all these guys in their primes on the ice with tenders that had the same pads etc. The things McDavid does would likely crush them. If I am honest with myself, I am going to say McDavid by way of talent is right now the most talented hockey player to ever play the game.

 

[King1s]

Big 4?

Gretzky
Lemieux

Some random canadian scrubs who played back in the days when NHL was a bush league.

Howe and Orr. Lol

 

[thewave]

Except he's not but okay

Like I said all things equal played out at the same time... McDavid is running all the past "best" players out of the rink. Probably Mario would give him the most competition due to frame, speed etc. Nobody touched Wayne, Orr as best ever is just a meme.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Everyone needs to start separating "most skilled ever" from "greatest legacy ever".

Two things can be true at the same time.

McDavid can be the most skilled player ever, but not have the greatest legacy yet.

No one is pushing Orr out of the way in terms of legacy yet, but McDavid going one on one with prime Orr tonight at the local arena...Orr would look like a child in his metal tube skates. Not his fault. He was born too early. Players smoked in the dressing room back then for christsake.

 

[VaporTrail]

He's going to get injured riding a horse never to return to his old form....He'll go down as the #77 best player of all time..

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

He's going to get injured riding a horse never to return to his old form....He'll go down as the #77 best player of all time..

Maybe he'll pull a Dustin Penner and hurt his back eating pancakes.

 

[blundluntman]

Like I said all things equal played out at the same time... McDavid is running all the past "best" players out of the rink. Probably Mario would give him the most competition due to frame, speed etc. Nobody touched Wayne, Orr as best ever is just a meme.

You sound pretty biased and uneducated when it comes to all time discussions so I won't even play ball. Whatever you say

 

[thewave]

You sound pretty biased and uneducated when it comes to all time discussions so I won't even play ball. Whatever you say

You can say that all you want but he isn't in the best player of all time category. It sounds like you are just a person with fond memories from back in the day. You've lionized a great hockey player but, he isn't what you perceive him to be.

I mean, I would say Gordie Howe is a real deal candidate stats adjusted for era to be in the conversation with Wayne and Mario. If that helps. Not Orr lol

 

[blundluntman]

You can say that all you want but he isn't in the best player of all time category. It sounds like you are just a person with fond memories from back in the day. You've lionized a great hockey player but, he isn't what you perceive him to be.

I mean, I would say Gordie Howe is a real deal candidate stats adjusted for era to be in the conversation with Wayne and Mario. If that helps. Not Orr lol

I wasn't even alive during his prime lol. It's easy to think his numbers were a fluke when you see them, I used to too. Doesn't change the fact he has a top 5 offensive peak while also being elite defensively. Adjusted stats or whatever strawman argument you use won't change that. (His adjusted stats are literally as good as Howes btw, what are you talking about?)

 

[McRpro]

Give me a break. If you put all these guys in their primes on the ice with tenders that had the same pads etc. The things McDavid does would likely crush them. If I am honest with myself, I am going to say McDavid by way of talent is right now the most talented hockey player to ever play the game.

I have no problem with people saying McDavid is the most talented player ever. But you really can only compare players by what they accomplished during their eras. Orr is really the only player that has a legit argument VS Gretzky as the best player ever, seeing what he accomplished in his career against his peers. My comment was just saying Orr is ahead of Mario on that list, which is certainly the concensus.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Even Oilers fans scoff at the idea of McDavid being close to Gretzky. Barring progression in his game, no way he cracks the top-3.

 

[Mr Buckles]

McDavid had an assist on the powerplay to reach 70 assists once again - his 5th season accomplishing this.

Most 70 assist seasons in NHL history:

 

[Weztex]

Like I said all things equal played out at the same time... McDavid is running all the past "best" players out of the rink. Probably Mario would give him the most competition due to frame, speed etc. Nobody touched Wayne, Orr as best ever is just a meme.

That’s a faulty premise. If you're playing 2023 McDavid versus 1953 Howe and 1973 Orr, you're dressing up athletes whose maximum development is totally dependent of their own environment. So it's neither the ''same time'' nor ''all things equal''. Not even close.

The actual Albanian army would absolutely crush Napoleon's great army. Anybody would agree that labeling it as greater would be an absurd misunderstanding of context and severe lack of historical understanding.

That's what you do.