Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[authentic]

That’s a faulty premise. If you're playing 2023 McDavid versus 1953 Howe and 1973 Orr, you're dressing up athletes whose maximum development is totally dependent of their own environment. So it's neither the ''same time'' nor ''all things equal''. Not even close.

The actual Albanian army would absolutely crush Napoleon's great army. Anybody would agree that labeling it as greater would be an absurd misunderstanding of context and severe lack of historical understanding.

That's what you do.

This is true but given how dominant he is today against a much larger talent pool and more developed game especially in the case of goaltending and the pace it's played at is it really unreasonable to assume he would be even more dominant back in the day with all the same disadvantages of past players? He is putting up Howe like dominance in the modern day which is not equivalent to an all Canadian 6 team league in the 1950s.

 

[Weztex]

This is true but given how dominant he is today against a much larger talent pool and more developed game especially in the case of goaltending and the pace it's played at is it really unreasonable to assume he would be even more dominant back in the day with all the same disadvantages of past players? He is putting up Howe like dominance in the modern day which is not equivalent to an all Canadian 6 team league in the 1950s.

Not that's it's unreasonable but the point is : we'll never know.

On one side, you could give McDavid some points because he plays in a more globalized environment. On the other side, from top to bottom, a six team league was much tighter in talent and a lot harder to dominate point-wise. Some make the comparison by looking at McDavid stats vs. Canadian players. While it seems a sensible way to go, it doesn't account for changes in ice time, roles, number of teams and quality of opponent. But yeah, it can give a rough estimate.

And then there's the butterfly effect... Does McDavid actually develops the same set of skills if the sport never benefited of this foreign influx? Take out the globalization and hockey is at a different place than it is now. So is the game McDavid learns.

I feel that by doing direct era comparaisons (like setuping a fictional game with players 50 years apart) we pretty much turn everything into hypotheticals. And trying to prop/down up a player with hypotheticals never leads to any discussion of substance. Only wild guesses and far out opinions without much to back it up.

I agree that McDavid is putting Howe-like dominance right now. If he stays pretty comparable his whole career then I'd have no problem putting him ahead of Howe if I feel he faced better talent. But my claim won't be based on random time travel fantasies.

 

[Chardo]

Without ever winning a championship? Nice feat.

 

[McVespa99]

I didn’t exist during the Howe era, but I find that anybody who played in the 50’s are nowhere near the fitness and skill level of todays game. Extrapolating what he would’ve done today is just unreasonable given the multitude of factors.

The pure homerism in this post, McDavid is approaching Crosby. But he’s still the inferior player

No. If we are being honest McDavid is the most skilled and dynamic player ever. He may not go down as the goat because Gretzky was so dominant in his era but make no mistake CM is the most skilled ever

 

[McVespa99]

Without ever winning a championship? Nice feat.

If thats the way it goes down it wont diminish his greatness. It will only fuel the trolls

 

[Three On Zero]

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No. If we are being honest McDavid is the most skilled and dynamic player ever. He may not go down as the goat because Gretzky was so dominant in his era but make no mistake CM is the most skilled ever

That’s just not true, McDavid is good but he still isn’t top 5. He’s a modern day Pavel Bure without injuries and in a softer league

 

[Brent Burns]

We need to start separating these discussions into eras and positions otherwise they're pointless. You can't objectively compare Gretzky/Lemieux era players to their predecessors or to modern players. How can you even begin to compare Dominik Hasek to Alexander Ovechkin?

edit
Cups? Seriously? So now being the "GOAT" requires you to be saddled with a good GM and coach? This board has actually become dumber over the years

 

[McVespa99]

That’s just not true, McDavid is good but he still isn’t top 5. He’s a modern day Pavel Bure without injuries and in a softer league

Your post is nonsense.

 

[Three On Zero]

Your post is nonsense.

Nope, it’s not. That’s been his comparable quite often on here

 

[Random Comment]

How can anyone watch clips of all the greats and not conclude McDavid is the greatest to ever play. Truly astonishes me. People like to argue I guess.

 

[McVespa99]

Nope, it’s not. That’s been his comparable quite often on here

Yes. By you. Nonsense

 

[Three On Zero]

Yes. By you. Nonsense

Again nope, first time I have said it

 

[Macheteops]

That’s just not true, McDavid is good but he still isn’t top 5. He’s a modern day Pavel Bure without injuries and in a softer league

Your post is nonsense.

He's one of my favourite posters. Always a good laugh

 

[edog37]

This is absurd…truly absurd. A one trick show pony who can’t even lead his team to a measly division title let alone a Cup.

 

[NickyFotiu]

McDavid is the best skilled hockey player to have played the game .

He's more gifted that 66 or 99.
If he played in the same time as them he would have gotten better results .

Mike Gartner could skate and shoot with almost anyone but he was not the best in his era. Definitely not better than Wayne nor Mario.

 

[Sentinel]

On the subject: no, he most definitely won't.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The 80s looks like pond hockey compared to today's game. Send this version of McDavid to the 80s and he would decimate the records

You cant compare guys like that. Even the TV technology is different. Compare guys that spanned eras like Jagr, Crosby, Ovi, Sakic. etc. Look at how they compared. Gretz was 36-37 with a back so painful sometimes he could not tie his skates and he still led the NHL in assists in those years.

 

[Kerberos]

This is absurd…truly absurd. A one trick show pony who can’t even lead his team to a measly division title let alone a Cup.

Tell us you don't watch hockey without telling us you don't watch hockey.

 

[edog37]

Tell us you don't watch hockey without telling us you don't watch hockey.

You clearly don’t. But by all means, tell us your expert knowledge. McMuffin is a one dimensional player. It shows by his inability to lead teams.

 

[Garbageyuk]

This is absurd…truly absurd. A one trick show pony who can’t even lead his team to a measly division title let alone a Cup.

Of course a Pens fan lmao. You’re all insecure about Crosby and bitter af too. McDavid is better; deal with it.

You clearly don’t. But by all means, tell us your expert knowledge. McMuffin is a one dimensional player. It shows by his inability to lead teams.

Trolling lmao. What are you going to say when he wins a Cup? Please be safe and don’t have a breakdown. Get help with your trauma before then.

 

[dwonger]

Mike Gartner could skate and shoot with almost anyone but he was not the best in his era. Definitely not better than Wayne nor Mario.

Gartner had 1/10th the hockey sense or skills that McDavid has. Are you insane?

 

[shaner82]

This is true but given how dominant he is today against a much larger talent pool and more developed game especially in the case of goaltending and the pace it's played at is it really unreasonable to assume he would be even more dominant back in the day with all the same disadvantages of past players? He is putting up Howe like dominance in the modern day which is not equivalent to an all Canadian 6 team league in the 1950s.

I keep saying the talent pool mentioned. What does that have to do with anything?
Whether the league has 15 teams or 32 teams, how does that make it easier or harder for elite players to perform?

 

[Gurglesons]

Of course a Pens fan lmao. You’re all insecure about Crosby and bitter af too. McDavid is better; deal with it.


Trolling lmao. What are you going to say when he wins a Cup? Please be safe and don’t have a breakdown. Get help with your trauma before then.

Even if he is we still got Lemieux.

 

[Dust]

That’s just not true, McDavid is good but he still isn’t top 5. He’s a modern day Pavel Bure without injuries and in a softer league

They both skate fast, that's about where the comparables end. I guess Bure had 3rd place Hart finish, close enough.

 

[shaner82]

How can anyone watch clips of all the greats and not conclude McDavid is the greatest to ever play. Truly astonishes me. People like to argue I guess.

How can anyone who has watched Wayne and Mario not conclude they are by far greater than McDavid. Truly astonishes me. People like to argue I guess