Connor McDavid: 150 Points Watch (32GP: 53 Points - 135.8 Pace (1.66 PPG))

[93LEAFS]

McDavid played 56 games last season and had 105 points and wins an Art Ross, outscores his closest teammate by 21 points.

sort of ignores the fact the no team played more than 56 games?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

McDavid played 56 games last season and had 105 points and wins an Art Ross, outscores his closest teammate by 21 points.

Jagr did it in the NHL though.

 

[Mandalorian]

There is this little thing called "playoffs." There is another little thing called "leadership." Then there's yet another little thing called "two-way play." McDavid is so far behind those three in all three aspects, it's not even funny.

There is more to hockey than offensive stats.

Hockey is a team sports.

Yzerman was obviously a fantastic player, but it helps to play with Lidstrom, Shanahan, Fedorov, Hasek and Hull to win cups.
It helps to play with Fosberg, Bourque and Roy to win cups.
It helps to play with Gretzky, Coffey, Kurri, Leetch and Kovalev to win cups.

 

[Mandalorian]

My post never mentioned Jagr.

I specifically replied to someone who said McDavid has done nothing to proves he belong in the same tier as Jagr, you are the one who inserted himself in the conversation without considering the context.

 

[Barry Tallackson]

Such a shame that the greatest talent in 30 years can’t even get his team deep into the playoffs.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I specifically replied to someone who said McDavid has done nothing to proves he belong in the same tier as Jagr, you are the one who inserted himself in the conversation without considering the context.

The context was Jagr, Crosby, and Ovechkin. Now you’re deciding to single out one of those three. Can’t imagine why? You’re really bad at this.

 

[Sentinel]

Hockey is a team sports.

Yzerman was obviously a fantastic player, but it helps to play with Lidstrom, Shanahan, Fedorov, Hasek and Hull to win cups.
It helps to play with Fosberg, Bourque and Roy to win cups.
It helps to play with Gretzky, Coffey, Kurri, Leetch and Kovalev to win cups.

Not one of the three aspects I listed has anything to do with teammates or team victories. They are all very much individual qualities. In which Yzerman, Messier, and Sakic are MILES above McDavid.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Hockey is a team sports.

McDavids equivalent of a grace period.

 

[Mandalorian]

The context was Jagr, Crosby, and Ovechkin. Now you’re deciding to single out one of those three. Can’t imagine why? You’re really bad at this.

You took the only thing McDavid didn't had on those player trophy wise, can't imagine why?

Yes, because Conn Smyth are the end all be all of how you judge a player.

So your saying that Jagr isn't in the same tier as Ovechkin and Crosby because he never won a Conn Smyth but they did?

I guess O'Reilly is a step above Jagr since he won a Conn Smyth, if I'm following you.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Not one of the three aspects I listed has anything to do with teammates or team victories. They are all very much individual qualities. In which Yzerman, Messier, and Sakic are MILES above McDavid.

Messier has two harts two lindsays and a smythe along with 6 cups and is an all time great playoff performer. His trophy room isn't exactly empty.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

You took the only thing McDavid didn't had on those player trophy wise, can't imagine why?

Yes, because Conn Smyth are the end all be all of how you judge a player.

So your saying that Jagr isn't in the same tier as Ovechkin and Crosby because he never won a Conn Smyth but they did?

I guess O'Reilly is a step above Jagr since he won a Conn Smyth, if I'm following you.

 

[ConnorMcBackcheck]

Hockey is a team sports.

Yzerman was obviously a fantastic player, but it helps to play with Lidstrom, Shanahan, Fedorov, Hasek and Hull to win cups.
It helps to play with Fosberg, Bourque and Roy to win cups.
It helps to play with Gretzky, Coffey, Kurri, Leetch and Kovalev to win cups.

Yzerman scored 155 points on a very average Red Wings team. Gerard Gellant was his wingman, he had 93 points.

Lemieux scored 199 points and outscored his line mate, Rob Brown, by 84 points.

McDavid plays with an Art Ross winner on an average team and during his most dominate season, outscored him by 21 points.

McDavid isn’t even Yzerman dominant, he isn’t Jagr Dominant. He isn’t Bure dominant. All of those guys played against guys that were miles better than themselves. McDavid has never played against guys as dominant as Gretzky and Lemieux, which is why he’s going to stock his trophy case full of 5 point Art Ross wins.

 

[Mandalorian]

What goalpost am I moving exactly?

Your intervention was that "McDavid will get his respect when he actually does something worth while, like win a Conn Smythe. Until then, what lower level tier he belongs in is inconsequential."

I just showed you how simplistic your point of view was.

Jagr never won a Conn Smyth and he belongs in the Crosby and Ovechkin tier and deserves respect. Same thing for Ray Bourque.

Same thing for McDavid, he deserves respect for what he has accomplished as far as individual hardware goes at the age of 24.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

What goalpost am I moving exactly?

Your intervention was that "McDavid will get his respect when he actually does something worth while, like win a Conn Smythe. Until then, what lower level tier he belongs in is inconsequential."

I just showed you how simplistic your point of view was.

Jagr never won a Conn Smyth and he belongs in the Crosby and Ovechkin tier and deserves respect. Same thing for Ray Bourque.

Same thing to McDavid, he deserves respect for what he has accomplished as far as individual hardware goes at the age of 24.

Regular season, sure, but that’s not what I was discussing. I said “like win a Conn Smythe”, not that one had to win one. McDavid is lucky if he’s even PPG in the playoffs in his prime. He’s been a disaster in the playoffs. Do we need to bring up his defense on the series clinching goal again, really? He’s done dick in the playoffs, the time of year when it matters. He’s only been a defensive liability. Until he does something in the playoffs, he can sit at the back of the all-time great bus.

 

[Mandalorian]

Yzerman scored 155 points on a very average Red Wings team. Gerard Gellant was his wingman, he had 93 points.
Lemieux scored 199 points and outscored his line mate, Rob Brown, by 84 points.
McDavid plays with an Art Ross winner on an average team and during his most dominate season, outscored him by 21 points.
McDavid isn’t even Yzerman dominant, he isn’t Jagr Dominant. He isn’t Bure dominant. All of those guys played against guys that were miles better than themselves. McDavid has never played against guys as dominant as Gretzky and Lemieux, which is why he’s going to stock his trophy case full of 5 point Art Ross wins.

Stop talking about Lemieux, I never compared him to McDavid.

I'm going to quote you, referencing to the Jagr, Ovechkin and Crosby tier.

"McDavid has done nothing to be in the tier you’re mentioning."

Crosby art ross wins:
2007: 6 points on Thornton
2014: 17 points on Getzlaf

Ovechkin art ross wins:
2008: 6 points on Malkin

McDavid art ross wins:
2017: 11 points on Crosby
2018: 6 points on Giroux
2021: 21 points on Draisatl

How are their Art wins Ross different than McDavid Art ross wins?

 

[ConnorMcBackcheck]

Stop talking about Lemieux, I never compared him to McDavid.

I'm going to quote you, referencing to the Jagr, Ovechkin and Crosby tier.

"McDavid has done nothing to be in the tier you’re mentioning."

Crosby art ross wins:
2007: 6 points on Thornton
2014: 17 points on Getzlaf

Ovechkin art ross wins:
2008: 6 points on Malkin

McDavid art ross wins:
2017: 11 points on Crosby
2018: 6 points on Giroux
2021: 21 points on Draisatl

How are their Art wins Ross different than McDavid Art ross wins?

I have never used the names Crosby or Ovechkin in this thread.

 

[Mandalorian]

Regular season, sure, but that’s not what I was discussing. I said “like win a Conn Smythe”, not that one had to win one. McDavid is lucky if he’s even PPG in the playoffs in his prime. He’s been a disaster in the playoffs. Do we need to bring up his defense on the series clinching goal again, really? He’s done dick in the playoffs, the time of year when it matters. He’s only been a defensive liability. Until he does something in the playoffs, he can sit at the back of the all-time great bus.

McDavid is slightly over PPG in his short career playoff lol.

Sakic is slightly over PPG in career playoff, Yzerman is under PPG career playoff.

Look I agree he is a defensive liability. But the myth that he completely disappear in the playoff isn't true.

Of course he still has a lot to prove as far as being a leader and a cup winner, he is still really young and played on bad teams tho. But if he keeps playing like he did since the beginning of his career, he is close to be a lock as far as being in the Sakic, Yzerman tier. And I would argue that is in the same tier as Crosby, Ovechkin, Jagr already or at the very least really close.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Yzerman scored 155 points on a very average Red Wings team. Gerard Gellant was his wingman, he had 93 points.

Lemieux scored 199 points and outscored his line mate, Rob Brown, by 84 points.

McDavid plays with an Art Ross winner on an average team and during his most dominate season, outscored him by 21 points.

McDavid isn’t even Yzerman dominant, he isn’t Jagr Dominant. He isn’t Bure dominant. All of those guys played against guys that were miles better than themselves. McDavid has never played against guys as dominant as Gretzky and Lemieux, which is why he’s going to stock his trophy case full of 5 point Art Ross wins.

One thing that hasn't been brought up much is that the Oilers' GF ranking has been relatively low for having 4 of the last 5 Art Ross winners. When you couple that with the Oiler's lacking team success as well, you have to question the degree of impact McDavid and Draisaitl are making relative to their point totals.

Below are the team GF rank of the Art Ross winner since 1980-81, bolded are McDavid/Draisaitl:

6th
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st
4th
3rd
2nd
2nd
1st
2nd
1st
7th
2nd
1st
1st
2nd
4th
9th
2nd
22nd
5th
3rd
05-06: 7th
06-07: 3rd
07-08: 8th
08-09: 6th
09-10: 2nd
10-11: 1st
11-12: 1st
12-13: 3rd
13-14:5th
14-15: 2nd
15-16: 6th
16-17: 8th
17-18: 20th
18-19: 1st
19-20: 14th
20-21: 7th
21-22:9th currently

 

[bambamcam4ever]

McDavid is slightly over PPG in his short career playoff lol.

Sakic is slightly over PPG in career playoff, Yzerman is under PPG career playoff.

Look I agree he is a defensive liability. But the myth that he completely disappear in the playoff isn't true.

Of course he still has a lot to prove as far as being a leader and a cup winner, he is still really young and played on bad teams tho. But if he keeps playing like he did since the beginning of his career, he is close to be a lock as far as being in the Sakic, Yzerman tier. And I would argue that is in the same tier as Crosby, Ovechkin, Jagr already or at the very least really close.

McDavid has 4 5v5 points in 17 career playoff games, can you find a similar regular season stretch?

 

[Mandalorian]

I have never used the names Crosby or Ovechkin in this thread.

You replied to this:

"It's no knock on McDavid. He'll be in that 2nd tier of greatest of all-time players alongside guys like Crosby, Jagr, or Ovechkin"

So yeah, unless you read the post so fast that you taught the guy was talking about Gretzky and Lemieux, you insinuated that he didn't belong in the same tier as them(Crosby, Ovechkin and Jagr).

 

[Panthaz89]

Regular season, sure, but that’s not what I was discussing. I said “like win a Conn Smythe”, not that one had to win one. McDavid is lucky if he’s even PPG in the playoffs in his prime. He’s been a disaster in the playoffs. Do we need to bring up his defense on the series clinching goal again, really? He’s done dick in the playoffs, the time of year when it matters. He’s only been a defensive liability. Until he does something in the playoffs, he can sit at the back of the all-time great bus.

Sure let's just pretend that your teammates don't matter in any context whatsoever. Probably the same type of whiner calling Ovechkin a loser for a decade.

 

[ConnorMcBackcheck]

One thing that hasn't been brought up much is that the Oilers' GF ranking has been relatively low for having 4 of the last 5 Art Ross winners. When you couple that with the Oiler's lacking team success as well, you have to question the degree of impact McDavid and Draisaitl are making relative to their point totals.

Below are the team GF rank of the Art Ross winner since 1980-81, bolded are McDavid/Draisaitl:

6th
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st
1st
4th
3rd
2nd
2nd
1st
2nd
1st
7th
2nd
1st
1st
2nd
4th
9th
2nd
22nd
5th
3rd
05-06: 7th
06-07: 3rd
07-08: 8th
08-09: 6th
09-10: 2nd
10-11: 1st
11-12: 1st
12-13: 3rd
13-14:5th
14-15: 2nd
15-16: 6th
16-17: 8th
17-18: 20th
18-19: 1st
19-20: 14th
20-21: 7th
21-22:9th currently

Very interesting observation. I find it interesting that the big talk in the NHL is Edmonton’s goaltending woes. The team has two very recent Art Ross winners. One of them already being billed as a top five/top ten player all time. Shouldn’t these guys be scoring at 80s Oilers levels considering?

That extra 20 points a season isn’t helping anyone except McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

McDavid is slightly over PPG in his short career playoff lol.

Sakic is slightly over PPG in career playoff, Yzerman is under PPG career playoff.

Look I agree he is a defensive liability. But the myth that he completely disappear in the playoff isn't true.

Of course he still has a lot to prove as far as being a leader and a cup winner, he is still really young and played on bad teams tho. But if he keeps playing like he did since the beginning of his career, he is close to be a lock as far as being in the Sakic, Yzerman tier. And I would argue that is in the same tier as Crosby, Ovechkin, Jagr already or at the very least really close.

Let us know when McDavid does something in the playoffs, aside from beating up a bottom-feeding Chicago team that wouldn’t have even been in the playoffs in a normal year.

My original post. Without that shame of a series that shouldn’t have happened, he’s not PPG, he’s 0.77 in the playoffs. He’s been nothing other than a playoff (the real season) disappointment.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Sure let's just pretend that your teammates don't matter in any context whatsoever. Probably the same type of whiner calling Ovechkin a loser for a decade.

Never called Ovechkin a loser in my life, he’s one of my favorite players. He repeatedly showed up in the playoffs, when it mattered.

 

[ConnorMcBackcheck]

You replied to this:

"It's no knock on McDavid. He'll be in that 2nd tier of greatest of all-time players alongside guys like Crosby, Jagr, or Ovechkin"

So yeah, unless you read the post so fast that you taught the guy was talking about Gretzky and Lemieux, you insinuated that he didn't belong in the same tier as them(Crosby, Ovechkin and Jagr).

Crosby is certainly not on the same tier as Jagr or Ovechkin, both of whom have legitimate claim to being a top ten all time player.

People really need to stop confusing the player they thought Crosby could become with the 17 year veteran that played an actual career.