Connor Bedard or Jack Hughes?

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Connor Bedard or Jack Hughes?

  • Connor Bedard

    Votes: 319 73.2%
  • Jack Hughes

    Votes: 117 26.8%

  • Total voters
    436
  • Poll closed .
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That doesn't really matter because he can create separation in different ways. And he has great agility. I reaaalllly hesitate to compare anyone to Gretzky but he has some of those qualities in his skating and just overall ability that transcend top speed.

If you really want to pigeonhole your argument to such a narrow point that "he won't be able to create as much separation as the absolute best skaters in the NHL in a breakout when he gets a pass at X and Y" then be my guest. It doesn't really matter because of all of the other tools that he has.
It's not an uncommon scenario - in 5v5 hockey it happens all the time. Being able to create separation while breaking out of the zone is hugely valuable when trying to create offense, as the puck carrier becomes a theat that defenders have to respect, which opens up wingers. It also leads to a really high number of odd man rushes.

Being able to out skate back pressure is an extremely important part of the game, especially for offensive centers. This "narrow" part of the game is what makes McDavid, more than anything, the best player in the world.

Bedard is a fast skater - he's not going to struggle with carrying the puck and beating guys down the ice. But it's not going to be the defining aspect of his game like it is for McDavid/Hughes/Mackinnon etc.

Bedard skating at 17 much better then Marchand as in even close.

Who said anything about 17 year old marchand?
People seem to want to compare Crosby skating in NHL vs Bedard skating in WHL. Remember that both of these kids were also some of the youngest players in their drafts. Both of them didn't even turn 18 until after they were drafted. One year from 17 to 18 matters a lot.
Crosby at 17 was significantly faster than Bedard.
 
They definitely have a lot of skating similarities, but Crosby was for sure faster as a 17/18 year old. His top end speed was pretty incredible before that high ankle sprain. Crosby also had the better balance and strength on the puck.

As stated earlier, his skating is most similar to that of prime Brad Marchand. Nobody would ever call Marchand slow but he was never among the top 10 fastest skaters in the game.

I think people forget that young Crosby was a speed demon and drew comparisons to Pavel Bure. He would carry the puck at full speed and split D on a regular basis, sometimes even jumping over/through them. Even after the high ankle spain during his peak in 2010-14 he was very fast
 
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I think people forget that young Crosby was a speed demon and drew comparisons to Pavel Bure. He would carry the puck at full speed and split D on a regular basis, sometimes even jumping over/through them. Even after the high ankle spain during his peak in 2010-14 he was very fast
drew comparisons to Pavel Bure he says
 
bedard @12.25m + a 2c @ 3m
or
hughes @ 8m + hischier @ 7.25m

(i am aware that nico only has 4 years left on his current contract)
I get the idea here but really this is like saying Hughes + Hischier is greater than Bedard and a 3rd line center which is a little unfair one would think, heck Hughes is more valuable than McDavid then?

Also if Bedard is getting resigned at &12.25 million he is almost certainly killing it and the 3 million dollar guy could be anyone just as the 7.25 million dollar guy could be anyone not already a player under the teams control.

To the point if one is making this comparison one needs to use the average or random 3 million dollar guy signed as a UFA or the random 7.25 million dollar UFA.

was looking at Timo thus the edit.
 
Or you can use it to pay to keep your other quality star players (the Hischier or Bratt or Meier to Jack).

Having more efficiently deployed salary is never a negative.
Fair enough but having an elite superstar is usually never a negative as well right?

Plus if one wants to factor in "value", Bedard is going to bring a ton of value in his ELC right?
 
It's not an uncommon scenario - in 5v5 hockey it happens all the time. Being able to create separation while breaking out of the zone is hugely valuable when trying to create offense, as the puck carrier becomes a theat that defenders have to respect, which opens up wingers. It also leads to a really high number of odd man rushes.

Being able to out skate back pressure is an extremely important part of the game, especially for offensive centers. This "narrow" part of the game is what makes McDavid, more than anything, the best player in the world.

Bedard is a fast skater - he's not going to struggle with carrying the puck and beating guys down the ice. But it's not going to be the defining aspect of his game like it is for McDavid/Hughes/Mackinnon etc.



Who said anything about 17 year old marchand?

Crosby at 17 was significantly faster than Bedard.
Again no he wasn't. It just seems you bought it to the theory that Bedard isn't a great skater. I should just call it the McDavid effect, if you can't skate in the Olympics for speed skating, somehow your not a great skater. Bedard is every bit the skater (speed wise too) of Crosby. It is starting to get comical at this point,with people trying to knock Bedard as a skater. It is also getting so crazy that people think skating fast automatically equals a great skater. As a football fan it is getting as crazy as Al Davis drafting guys based if their 40 yard dash time.
 
This is what really makes this a great poll. I think Bedard will be better and score like 20 more points per year by like year 3. But ya he will get paid superstar money after 3 years. Hughes is on such a great deal, so this poll is very hard, compared to the Bedard vs Matthews one were AM is already getting superstar money.
The thing about the extra money is that people are making the best case assumptions in favor of Hughes for the "extra" money."

Nico and Bratt are already on the Devils what new player does the difference in salary bring in and also counter that with what Bedard does in his ELC before he resigns for mega money.

If he resigns as &12 million per that means his "value" on his ELC probably wipes out the Value for Hughes after Bedard resigns.

Not true. If you go back to those threads, Lafreniere was viewed as a tier above Hughes. Granted, Hughes first year likely played into that.

And no one has intimated Lafreniere was viewed the same as Bedard. But he was viewed as the next closest thing to generational and has so far fallen well below those expectations - that’s the point. Not a comparison between the two.
Just stop Laf was never seriously viewed that way but maybe some people were confusing NHL ready with something else?
 
I think people forget that young Crosby was a speed demon and drew comparisons to Pavel Bure. He would carry the puck at full speed and split D on a regular basis, sometimes even jumping over/through them. Even after the high ankle spain during his peak in 2010-14 he was very fast
What? I am the guy that says being an elite skater doesn't mean you have to have top end speed. Crosby was an elite skater but he was never close to as fast as Bure and I can't remember anyone every saying he was. Crosby was a short strider with incredible bust, but there were a lot of guys who where faster at top end speed.
 
so if Bedard becomes what people expect him to and gets paid what he should around 13-15m in 3 years. will Bedard be 6-7m better than Hughes?
That's hard to say as we don't know exactly where both players or the slaray cap will be.

But on the flipside will an ELC Bedard who scores say 40 gaols and 80-90 points be better than an 8 million dollars Hughes?
 
No, but I get more personal enjoyment out of the team winning games than I do out of the team making money. I don't think that's a unique position.

That might not be true for you, I guess. It's not impossible you get your enjoyment from people who aren't you making money.
That's a fair point but teams win games not just one guy.

During his first 3 seasons Hughes and the Devils were 25, 29 and 28th in league standings.
 
Where do people get off that Bedard is a weaker skater?
That's not the argument though but for full out top speed the guys listed were faster but then again I don't think it's a huge advantage.

Bedard will be as good or better at driving the play as Hughes.
 
LOVE Hughes. But I don't think I can pass on Bedard and what I think he'll become.

Hughes is probably Bedard's floor.
 
Again no he wasn't. It just seems you bought it to the theory that Bedard isn't a great skater. I should just call it the McDavid effect, if you can't skate in the Olympics for speed skating, somehow your not a great skater.
Where did I say Bedard wasn't a great skater? You're arguing with a strawman.

Does this sound like a description of a guy who is not a great skater?

Bedard is every bit the skater (speed wise too) of Crosby. It is starting to get comical at this point,with people trying to knock Bedard as a skater.
Crosby's skating ability was drawing comparisons to Paul Kariya coming out of junior. There is no way you could have watched Rimouski in 2004-05 and think Bedard is as fast as Crosby was. Crosby was faster at 16 than Bedard was at 17. He used to just gallop through the neutral zone and then straight blow by multiple defenders to the outside. Bedard almost never does that.

This was Sid at 16


This was Sid at 15


Comparing Bedard's top speed to Crosby's at the same age is embarrassingly ignorant, sorry. Crosby also had better balance and was stronger on the puck. This is not even debatable.

Elite edges, quickness, balance, and lateral mobility, with great top speed as well.
I've never once suggested he's not a great skater.
It is also getting so crazy that people think skating fast automatically equals a great skater. As a football fan it is getting as crazy as Al Davis drafting guys based if their 40 yard dash time.
It's even crazier that you are the person most guilty of conflating skating speed and overall skating. I've literally said that every other aspect of Bedard's skating repertoire is elite, but because I said he doesn't have elite top end speed, you interpret that as me thinking he's not a great skater?

Why do you think skating fast automatically equals a great skater?
 
Where did I say Bedard wasn't a great skater? You're arguing with a strawman.

Does this sound like a description of a guy who is not a great skater?


Crosby's skating ability was drawing comparisons to Paul Kariya coming out of junior. There is no way you could have watched Rimouski in 2004-05 and think Bedard is as fast as Crosby was. Crosby was faster at 16 than Bedard was at 17. He used to just gallop through the neutral zone and then straight blow by multiple defenders to the outside. Bedard almost never does that.

This was Sid at 16


This was Sid at 15


Comparing Bedard's top speed to Crosby's at the same age is embarrassingly ignorant, sorry. Crosby also had better balance and was stronger on the puck. This is not even debatable.


I've never once suggested he's not a great skater.

It's even crazier that you are the person most guilty of conflating skating speed and overall skating. I've literally said that every other aspect of Bedard's skating repertoire is elite, but because I said he doesn't have elite top end speed, you interpret that as me thinking he's not a great skater?

Why do you think skating fast automatically equals a great skater?

Okay. I have literally said over and over top end speed has become very overrated. But you do you.

And yes Bedard if very much like Crosby when it comes to top end speed. Those videos show Crosby skating around guys. Guess what you can find 50 videos of Crosby and Bedard doing the same stuff. This is were I wish NHL had next Gen stats like the NFL then it could be proven about speed. But who cares.
 
That's hard to say as we don't know exactly where both players or the slaray cap will be.

But on the flipside will an ELC Bedard who scores say 40 gaols and 80-90 points be better than an 8 million dollars Hughes?
well in 3 short years Hughes will still have 4 years at 8m and thats questionable because there's no saying that Bedard will be as good as Hughes right out the gate. I would just simple take Jack Hughes. you already know what your getting
 
Okay. I have literally said over and over top end speed has become very overrated. But you do you.
You claimed I was pushing a theory that Bedard wasn't a great skater because I said his top end speed wasn't elite.


Why do you think a guy who lacks elite speed can't be a great skater? Sounds like you are the one overrating the importance of top end speed.

And yes Bedard if very much like Crosby when it comes to top end speed. Those videos show Crosby skating around guys. Guess what you can find 50 videos of Crosby and Bedard doing the same stuff. This is were I wish NHL had next Gen stats like the NFL then it could be proven about speed. But who cares.
They do, are you not aware of the CHL skating test?


This guy is an athletic trainer for pro hockey players, and is saying exactly what I have been saying.

Bedard only finished top 5 in one on ice test

1695922163464.png


His combine tests for agility, broad jump, and vertical jump were also mediocre. And yes, there is a very strong correlation between skating speed and ability to generate power. You can even see in his agility tests how he struggles to get his legs fully in front of him:



Compared to McDavid in the same drill, its a monumental difference in power being generated:

 
You claimed I was pushing a theory that Bedard wasn't a great skater because I said his top end speed wasn't elite.


Why do you think a guy who lacks elite speed can't be a great skater? Sounds like you are the one overrating the importance of top end speed.


They do, are you not aware of the CHL skating test?


This guy is an athletic trainer for pro hockey players, and is saying exactly what I have been saying.

Bedard only finished top 5 in one on ice test

View attachment 746984

His combine tests for agility, broad jump, and vertical jump were also mediocre. And yes, there is a very strong correlation between skating speed and ability to generate power. You can even see in his agility tests how he struggles to get his legs fully in front of him:



Compared to McDavid in the same drill, its a monumental difference in power being generated:


Haha. Oh the shorts and t-shirt contest. I am talking about speed on the actual ice during a game with the pads on and the puck on the stick.

Connor McDavid is hands down the best skater in the NHL (maybe ever) and yet he finished in the top ten (5th) in only one event. Hell Dylan Strome was faster in one of the agility tests, and that guys skates like he has cement on his feet.

Only thing really worth anything at the combine in height and weight. What a joke the combine correlates to NHL skating. If they would have had a combine back in the day, shit Mario Lemieux would have been doing the agility test with a cigarette in each hand.
 
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Haha. Oh the shorts and t-shirt contest. I am talking about speed on the actual ice during a game with the pads on and the puck on the stick.
Did you not even watch the video I posted? I even time stamped it for you. Bedard did not perform well in on ice speed testing.
 
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