Combined Goalie Discussion thread

[cyris]

No.

If you say so

 

[vpasla1]

No I think it’s pretty similar.

Murray only wanted the Leafs or Oilers and the Oilers already tampered with Jack. In the end the Leafs were the only team in the running. If the Leafs say no, then the Sens either had to keep him or trade him to another team for a buyout. Another option would be buying him out themselves but I don’t think would stomach eating his money and having the off-season they did.

Marleau only wanted San Jose and wouldn’t waive for any other team which forced the Leafs’ hand. San Jose wasn’t going to take on his cap hit so again the Leafs either had to keep him or trade him to another team for a buyout.

The Leafs could have played hard ball and in my opinion should have easily got a better return.

Marleau was happy to be paid 6 million on the Leafs, there was no hardball with him. Who would the Leafs play hardball with for a better return? The other teams knew the Leafs had to clear cap space.
If the Leafs didn't trade Marleau, then they wouldn't have had room to keep Kasperi Kapenen (3.2 million) and Andreas Johnsson (3.4 million).

The Sens could afford to keep Murray on their roster if he wasn't traded.

They are not similar at all.

 

[I am Canadian]

I would have preferred more retention too.

Pretty sure it would have been cheaper for them to buy him out then retain more.

Leafs should have just let them do that and then could have paid him significantly less

 

[deprw]

No I think it’s pretty similar.

Murray only wanted the Leafs or Oilers and the Oilers already tampered with Jack. In the end the Leafs were the only team in the running. If the Leafs say no, then the Sens either had to keep him or trade him to another team for a buyout. Another option would be buying him out themselves but I don’t think would stomach eating his money and having the off-season they did.

Marleau only wanted San Jose and wouldn’t waive for any other team which forced the Leafs’ hand. San Jose wasn’t going to take on his cap hit so again the Leafs either had to keep him or trade him to another team for a buyout.

The Leafs could have played hard ball and in my opinion should have easily got a better return.

Could, would, should. In real world we had to make a decision on our goaltending before UFA season starts. You can't roll back on that and wait for your openings forever. I didn't like the price back then and I don't like it now, but it is what it is.

Thing with Marleau was that he couldn't fit into San Jose or Toronto. Had to be bought out and that's why we paid that first. Carolina got that first for that money spend and on lost cap room. We try to utilize Murray and there is big difference.

I don't even like arguing that Marleau contract, because in hindsight it is easy to say, that we should have kept him, but everyone here would have tore his hair out watching that team play without Kapanen and very thin and unexperienced defense.

 

[Mikeyg]

we're due for a goalie to come in here and break out into a monster. Sammy always had a tonne of potential, I think when he calms down a bit he has the potential to be really really good. C'mon kid! we need ya!

 

[ACC1224]

Is Jan 1st during the season?

It is.
Today is also part of the season also, can they extended him this afternoon?

Of course. But your answer was still incomplete.

Correct, it was.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Samsonov is a great reflex goaltender with an excellent glove hand. The tools are there.

If he can learn to apply the fundamentals consistently, we could have a gem.

 

[Mess]

Yes. He's a restricted free agent for the Leafs too.

With Arbitration rights, and that is why in part he took a 1 year deal to bet on himself, when it was rumoured there were deals with more $$$ or more term out there for him.

A 1 year Arbitration reward will see him be age 27 and a free agent again at its completion. RFA status is not as important as Arbitration eligible status. IMO

The Murray injury will allow him to play more games and as a result more wins and stats means more potential $$$ on his next deal. Murray is signed for next year as well complicating things further on any re-signing of Samsonov when dealing with the salary cap space. A stating goalies salary > backup goalies salary.

 

[Gallagbi]

Pretty sure it would have been cheaper for them to buy him out then retain more.

Leafs should have just let them do that and then could have paid him significantly less

I dont think so, he had 2 yrs and a $15M owed. A buyout was $10M, max retention would be $7.5M

 

[fancy lad]

Imagine if Samsonov became the number one ? Once again we are paying a backup $4 million!

Sure looks like that’s the way it’s going to play out. just being out a month is going to make it harder for Murray to regain the starters role.

if the team puts up a solid record with Samsonov, he will cement himself as the number 1. A month is a long stretch And team chemistry and habits will have formed by then.

 

[Fogelhund]

 

[DarkKnight]

I think I have to get used to Samsonov’s style. There’s a lot of movement and mesh behind him, but that’s his athletic game I suppose . I generally find that nervy to watch, but if it works for him, who cares.

 

[kb]

I think I have to get used to Samsonov’s style. There’s a lot of movement and mesh behind him, but that’s his athletic game I suppose . I generally find that nervy to watch, but if it works for him, who cares.

Agree wholeheartedly with the amount of net opponents can see behind him. It's his unconscious default is to stay low, back into the net, and lean forward. It will take awhile to retrain himself to stand taller and absorb shots..

 

[Stephen]

Marleau was happy to be paid 6 million on the Leafs, there was no hardball with him. Who would the Leafs play hardball with for a better return? The other teams knew the Leafs had to clear cap space.
If the Leafs didn't trade Marleau, then they wouldn't have had room to keep Kasperi Kapenen (3.2 million) and Andreas Johnsson (3.4 million).

The Sens could afford to keep Murray on their roster if he wasn't traded.

They are not similar at all.

Out of the whole Marleau wreckage (and in hindsight), it's interesting to point out that keeping Marleau for 1x year and moving on from Johnsson and Kapanen (which they did one year later anyway) would have been the best play.

 

[Stephen]

I think I have to get used to Samsonov’s style. There’s a lot of movement and mesh behind him, but that’s his athletic game I suppose . I generally find that nervy to watch, but if it works for him, who cares.

Quite the opposite. Samsonov needs to make the small adjustments in keeping himself more upright in default stance so % he'll cover more net, be in better position to track the puck and become even better with the foundation he already has. That's always been the discussion point with him in Washington and developing as a star goalie. It's an efficiency thing.

 

[andora]

Quite the opposite. Samsonov needs to make the small adjustments in keeping himself more upright in default stance so % he'll cover more net, be in better position to track the puck and become even better with the foundation he already has. That's always been the discussion point with him in Washington and developing as a star goalie. It's an efficiency thing.

Agreed... i dont see how they could have been viewed as long term options.. cashingnin on those two a year earlier would have been beneficial

 

[DarkKnight]

Quite the opposite. Samsonov needs to make the small adjustments in keeping himself more upright in default stance so % he'll cover more net, be in better position to track the puck and become even better with the foundation he already has. That's always been the discussion point with him in Washington and developing as a star goalie. It's an efficiency thing.

Okay well that speaks to my commentary before that all this mesh will catch up to him. So is he athletic or squirrely? LOL. I know his rep is he’s too small at times, loses concentration and mentally has challenges.

 

[Mess]

Leafs went after the wrong Sens goalie and should have gone after Anton Forsberg instead. Murray's injury history and poor play in the past years both well known to everyone.

If Murray didn't play in the Soo would the Leafs even be in this situation now?

 

[LeafChief]

Leafs went after the wrong Sens goalie and should have gone after Anton Forsberg instead. Murray's injury history and poor play in the past years both well known to everyone.

If Murray didn't play in the Soo would the Leafs even be in this situation now?

What position? 2-1 record with a goalie playing .925 hockey?

 

[Stephen]

Leafs went after the wrong Sens goalie and should have gone after Anton Forsberg instead. Murray's injury history and poor play in the past years both well known to everyone.

If Murray didn't play in the Soo would the Leafs even be in this situation now?

Do you remember when Anton Forsberg made the waiver circuit between claims by Winnipeg, Edmonton, Carolina? It's incredible to me that such an available and competent goalie could be overlooked on so many occasions in a league that's always desperate for goaltending. Seems like if you see a 6'3" guy with athleticism on waivers, just claim him.

 

[Shooter2x]

Leafs went after the wrong Sens goalie and should have gone after Anton Forsberg instead. Murray's injury history and poor play in the past years both well known to everyone.

If Murray didn't play in the Soo would the Leafs even be in this situation now?

Sens are high on forsberg he was never an option to trade for in the summer

 

[Stephen]

Okay well that speaks to my commentary before that all this mesh will catch up to him. So is he athletic or squirrely? LOL. I know his rep is he’s too small at times, loses concentration and mentally has challenges.

InGoal Radio was talking about Samsonov. There's been this line of thinking that he has all the tools to be a Vasilevskiy but there are quirks in his game like his low crouch and deep stance that are less than efficient. They also mentioned he isn't quite the wide body Vasi is, but otherwise his athleticism "pops" and you can see the high end potential. He also came into the league as a very successful Russian goalie, so he was resistant to adjustments as a younger goalie (why fix it if it ain't broke?) But as we've seen, he hasn't quite lived up to expectations and he's amenable to coaching and making adjustments.

Anyway, flaws and all, he's an exciting young goalie and I'm looking forward to seeing his runway with Murray out.

 

[notbias]

Out of the whole Marleau wreckage (and in hindsight), it's interesting to point out that keeping Marleau for 1x year and moving on from Johnsson and Kapanen (which they did one year later anyway) would have been the best play.

And people would have complained we wasted a season by holding Marleau... lets not pretend that it would have been okay to do that.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Imagine thinking a Campbell/Mrazek tandem is a good idea.

 

[notbias]

Leafs went after the wrong Sens goalie and should have gone after Anton Forsberg instead. Murray's injury history and poor play in the past years both well known to everyone.

If Murray didn't play in the Soo would the Leafs even be in this situation now?

Is the current injury related to past ones?