Value of: Colorado and Calgary (Kadri)

[tucker3434]

As much as I’d love Kadri back in an Avs uniform, the retention we’d need to make the length of that contract work wouldn’t make any sense at all for the flames. I think he’s destined to retire there.

 

[Double Dion]

The Flames no longer have a best player. That’s the primary problem with their roster. Just a lot of good players but no bona fide top pair guy. No top line C or W. No top shelf goalie. The team tops out at a collection of 2nd liners and middle pair defenders.

He’d be a 2C for the Avs. The ceiling for what you’d pay is Newhook, 1st and Olausson. Which is a high price to pay. Good player coming back to the Avs though.

I don’t disagree Lindholm would have value league wide. Avs best offer is on the table for others to beat.

The Flames still have a best player. It's Lindholm. The only other guy close is Backlund.

 

[treple13]

Considering that most if not all of the coaches the Flames have hired in that time span never coached again in the NHL as a head coach, that speaks more to ownership's cheapness and penchant for making terrible hires.

True, but Sutter hasn't been the problem. He runs a great system and we've been submarined by people not playing to potential/bad luck/bad goaltending

 

[Some Other Flame]

True, but Sutter hasn't been the problem. He runs a great system and we've been submarined by people not playing to potential/bad luck/bad goaltending

His system is basically taking low percentage shots in the name of corsi while hoping the goaltender bails them out. It's a system predicated on having a strong defensive group that can shut things down when necessary as well as punish the opposition physically until they start making mistakes.

Flames can do none of those things currently. The goaltending is a mess and the over all team defense is up and down & Lucic's finished. Sutter's a fine coach but he's just not a fit for this roster as constructed. So either they fire him, or start retooling to get him the type of players he needs to be successful. One of these things is a lot easier to do than the other.

 

[treple13]

His system is basically taking low percentage shots in the name of corsi while hoping the goaltender bails them out. It's a system predicated on having a strong defensive group that can shut things down when necessary as well as punish the opposition physically until they start making mistakes.

Flames can do none of those things currently. The goaltending is a mess and the over all team defense is up and down & Lucic's finished. Sutter's a fine coach but he's just not a fit for this roster as constructed. So either they fire him, or start retooling to get him the type of players he needs to be successful. One of these things is a lot easier to do than the other.

The D is essentially the same one we had last year when we were winning. Our problem.with or without Sutter is we don't have elite offensive players (maybe Huberdeau if he gets it together). I have no idea how any system is going to work better for this roster than Sutter's.

Huberdeau is 100% a bad fit for Sutter, but outside him, you have guys like Backlund, Lindholm, Mang, Coleman, Tanev, Zadorov, Andersson, Weegar who fit a Sutter system like a glove.

Honestly if we had more consistent defensive performances and decent goaltending we'd be a solid playoff team.

 

[Some Other Flame]

The D is essentially the same one we had last year when we were winning. Our problem.with or without Sutter is we don't have elite offensive players (maybe Huberdeau if he gets it together). I have no idea how any system is going to work better for this roster than Sutter's.

Huberdeau is 100% a bad fit for Sutter, but outside him, you have guys like Backlund, Lindholm, Mang, Coleman, Tanev, Zadorov, Andersson, Weegar who fit a Sutter system like a glove.

Honestly if we had more consistent defensive performances and decent goaltending we'd be a solid playoff team.

Kylington was their best transition player on defense, and second best overall after Gaudreau. Also, dunno how you can say Weegar fits Sutter's system; defensively he's great but Daryl's completely neutered his offensive game. Guys like Backlund, Lindholm, Andersson, and Tanev would do well in just about any system.

Basically it boils down to this - the Flames lost two game breakers last summer and replaced them with one. And that one player doesn't mesh well with Sutter's system at all. The organization agreed to pay Huberdeau 90M last summer and in the process, made him virtually untradeable. So they really don't have a choice no but to go all in and build around him. So either Sutter bends and lets Huberdeau play his game a little more or he gets shown the door, if not soon then without question once his contract ends.

 

[MM917]

I would gladly move Kadri and retain 25% for almost anything just to get rid of him but no way the Flames will do that because as mentioned Edwards is a cheap owner that wouldn't do a reasonable retention let alone a fairly aggressive 25% for so long and the Flames also will never rebuild and always commit to being mediocre so kadri fits right in with that plan.

 

[viper0220]

The Flames can't sell anybody because of the first round situation with Montreal.

 

[Some Other Flame]

The Flames can't sell anybody because of the first round situation with Montreal.

Not really. That pick is protected in 2024 and 2025.

 

[viper0220]

Not really. That pick is protected in 2024 and 2025.

I don't think so, Montreal can get a high pick, from what I have read.

 

[BigRangy]

It's not fully protected in 2025. Only top 1 protected.

 

[Polite HKYDiscussion]

Can Calgary just lease Kadri out for the rest of the year?

 

[Some Other Flame]

I don't think so, Montreal can get a high pick, from what I have read.

The Crazy Conditions of Canadiens' 1st Round Pick From Flames - The Hockey Writers NHL Trade Analysis Latest News, Analysis & More

The pick the Montreal Canadiens acquired along with Sean Monahan carried a ton of conditions. Let's break them all down.

thehockeywriters.com

It's a mess and a lot depends on whether they receive Florida's 1st or not

 

[McJedi]

The Flames still have a best player. It's Lindholm. The only other guy close is Backlund.

Lindholm is a 2C on many teams. He’s not a best player. He’s a real good player. If he’s a team’s best player, that team sucks.

He’d be the 8th best player on the Avs for example.

Mack, Makar, Rants, Toews, Landy, Nuke, Byram. Lindholm. We just don’t need him that bad.

 

[slappipappi]

Lindholm is a 2C on many teams. He’s not a best player. He’s a real good player. If he’s a team’s best player, that team sucks.

He’d be the 8th best player on the Avs for example.

Mack, Makar, Rants, Toews, Landy, Nuke, Byram. Lindholm. We just don’t need him that bad.

Lindholm is easily 4th on that list.

 

[Ararana]

Yeah, no. The Avs didn't extend Kadri to that contract for a reason. Enjoy that.

I'd be much more interested in Backlund (Lindholm obviously but the price is probably too high). Backlund can be the Avs 2C this year then drop to 3C to replace Compher next year and they go out and get a 2C over the summer.

 

[McJedi]

Lindholm is easily 4th on that list.

Ahead of Landy or Nuke? Not even close. Byram also a better player. Lindholm is rightly 8th.

Very Good player. Good, responsible 200 foot game. Great contract for another 1.3 seasons. I like him a lot. Agree he’s the best flames player.

Carried by his elite linemates last season to artificial point totals. Is more the good 2C he really is this season.

 

[MM917]

Lindholm is a 2C on many teams. He’s not a best player. He’s a real good player. If he’s a team’s best player, that team sucks.

He’d be the 8th best player on the Avs for example.

Mack, Makar, Rants, Toews, Landy, Nuke, Byram. Lindholm. We just don’t need him that bad.

I am not saying the Avs need him but it is ridiculous to say he is anything lower than 4th on that list.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Ahead of Landy or Nuke? Not even close. Byram also a better player. Lindholm is rightly 8th.

Very Good player. Good, responsible 200 foot game. Great contract for another 1.3 seasons. I like him a lot. Agree he’s the best flames player.

Carried by his elite linemates last season to artificial point totals. Is more the good 2C he really is this season.

He's on pace for 71 points while playing with Dillon Dube and Tyler Toffoli.. That's just 11 points shy of his totals last season, and he's doing so while not being deployed as a top 150 forward in the NHL in five on five icetime.

You vastly underrate the player. He's one of the game's elite two way centers, and is absolutely a first line caliber player on any team in the league.

 

[McJedi]

He's on pace for 71 points while playing with Dillon Dube and Tyler Toffoli.. That's just 11 points shy of his totals last season, and he's doing so while not being deployed as a top 150 forward in the NHL in five on five icetime.

You vastly underrate the player. He's one of the game's elite two way centers, and is absolutely a first line caliber player on any team in the league.

He’s not a first liner on any team. He’s a 2C on most of the good ones. He’s outmatched vs most of the games legit 1Cs.

He’s no where near a Barkov. He’s not on par with Brayden Pointe or Mark Scheifele and I’d rank him below Roope Hintz too. He’s probably peers with someone like Robert Thomas.

71 points isn’t amazing given his deployment and ice time. He’s a 1C on his team. 71 points should be the bare minimum for a 1C on a playoff level team.

Agree he’s a very good 2 way player. Said so before.

I’d trade a few firsts for the guy. I think other teams would too. His demand would be pretty high. It’s too bad his deal ends next season. That limits his value some. Vancouver pushed too hard on JT Miller trade value and look how that ended up.

Calgary sure could also explore resigning him given they lack 1C options. Do they have the cap space?

 

[HighLifeMan]

He’s not a first liner on any team. He’s a 2C on most of the good ones.

71 points isn’t amazing given his deployment at ice time. He’s a 1C on his team.

Agree he’s a very good 2 way player. Said so before.

I’d trade a few firsts for the guy. I think other teams would too. His demand would be pretty high. It’s too bad his deal ends next season. That limits his value some. Vancouver pushed too hard on JT Miller trade value and look how that ended up.

Calgary sure could also explore resigning him given they lack 1C options. Do they have the cap space?

Again - his deployment sucks due to our dinosaur of a head coach.

He's 8th among Flames forwards in five on five ictime
He's 4th among Flames forwards in PP time
He's playing with Dillon Dube and Tyler Toffoli
He's an elite two way center

He's 27th in league scoring over the past half decade. He's a first liner through and through. Just because he'd play behind Mackinnon does not diminish his value or abilities as a player. He'd be an absolute luxury for Colorado.

 

[McJedi]

Again - his deployment sucks due to our dinosaur of a head coach.

He's 8th among Flames forwards in five on five ictime
He's 4th among Flames forwards in PP time
He's playing with Dillon Dube and Tyler Toffoli
He's an elite two way center

He's 27th in league scoring over the past half decade. He's a first liner through and through. Just because he'd play behind Mackinnon does not diminish his value or abilities as a player. He'd be an absolute luxury for Colorado.

Yes. He’d be a luxury on a good team and a very low end 1C on a bad team like Calgary.

Flames don’t have one of the NHLs worst coaches. I don’t like Sutter but he’s been quite successful in this league. We can’t always blame the coaches for player performance. That’s usually too easy and convenient an excuse.

Toffoli is a good winger for him. Similar level players. Playing with Toffoli isn’t an excuse. It’s a pretty good complementary pairing. Dube. Fast guy. High effort. MacKinnon plays with Lehkonen.

Most teams don’t want three Ferrari’s on the top line. Need some grit and forechecking.

Lindholm is a really good player but his point totals are skewed by having elite guys like Gaudreau and Tkachuk on his wings and on the PP. he’s not that level player anyone once those two skipped town.

He won’t have those players on his wings on a playoff team either. He’d have 2nd liners with Burakovsky or Toffoli level abilities.

 

[BKarchitect]

Backlund is the Flames center I would want. Guy is unbelievably good and a warrior out there. I suspect he is going nowhere though.

 

[thaman8765678]

Considering that most if not all of the coaches the Flames have hired in that time span never coached again in the NHL as a head coach, that speaks more to ownership's cheapness and penchant for making terrible hires.

Lol Sutter is a top 3 coach in the NHL.

If we fire him, we are closer to being a lottery team. His system makes our below average team look average.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Lol Sutter is a top 3 coach in the NHL.

If we fire him, we are closer to being a lottery team. His system makes our below average team look average.

Delusional nonsense. He's been wholly abysmal this year.