Proposal: Colorado All In (PHI/ARI)

[GirardSpinorama]

If your biggest need, or one of them, as other users in this thread have posted, is a depth forward who plays defensively, is gritty, goes to the corners, and has some offensive talent, then you should absolutely be all over Crouse. If you're playing him intentionally on a 3rd or 4th line he's gonna overproduce and over impress.

If you think you can sign him for under 2.5 - 3m, then he's going to be worth even more.

And if you believe he has the potential to grow into a Couturier type player, well, you're probably going to be willing to overpay a bit, as those types don't come along much, even as wingers, and when they do, someone inevitably gambles hard on them (See: Anderson, Dvorak, Garland, Goodrow etc).

I think there'll be at least one GM in the league who wants to gamble on Crouse.

How much do you think Crouse gets this offseason? Can we unload a contract in this deal to add to the pick? I wouldn't mind sending a good prospect plus pick but need some money off the books.

 

[Dead Coyote]

How much do you think Crouse gets this offseason? Can we unload a contract in this deal to add to the pick? I wouldn't mind sending a good prospect plus pick but need some money off the books.

We can definitely take back a contract (Compher would be fine) as long as we get something extra for it. I think Crouse will at least fetch a 1st equiv + a late 2nd/3rd. He probably won't get a top 10 pick, but I think something in the 15+ range might be a possibility.

Personally, Barron + 2 2nds is what I would be targeting for Crouse alone if Compher or someone else is coming back. I would love to get Newhook. I don't think Colorado is crazy enough to get rid of him. If we get some combination of three of Helleson/Behrens/2nd/2nd I'd also be pretty happy.

Ultimately though I think we squeeze some other poor sucker out of their kids college fund for him.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

We can definitely take back a contract (Compher would be fine) as long as we get something extra for it. I think Crouse will at least fetch a 1st equiv + a late 2nd/3rd. He probably won't get a top 10 pick, but I think something in the 15+ range might be a possibility.

Personally, Barron + 2 2nds is what I would be targeting for Crouse alone if Compher or someone else is coming back. I would love to get Newhook. I don't think Colorado is crazy enough to get rid of him. If we get some combination of three of Helleson/Behrens/2nd/2nd I'd also be pretty happy.

Ultimately though I think we squeeze some other poor sucker out of their kids college fund for him.

Shane Bowers (equivalent to a 2nd) + Behrens (good prospect) + Compher, I would offer to Crouse. Compher can go for a 3rd at the deadline next year. I actually would love to keep him this year for the run given our injuries.

 

[tictactoe]

Not enough to Philly. 2 1st and top prospect or two top prospects and a high pick.

 

[Ice Mammoth]

That guy is not a coyotes fan.

Did you clarify this to show that Arizona fans won't ask for that kind of cost?

One Arizona fan to the question “So more than Eichel? ” answered ”100% - easy”.
It was about Jakob Chychrun with no salary deduction.
I forgot the name of this Arizona fan.

 

[rt]

Did you clarify this to show that Arizona fans won't ask for that kind of cost?

One Arizona fan to the question “So more than Eichel? ” answered ”100% - easy”.
It was about Jakob Chychrun with no salary deduction.
I forgot the name of this Arizona fan.

Re-read the post I quoted and all will become clear.

 

[Hasbro]

Find someone who looks at you the same way HF Avs looks at Lawson Crouse.

 

[Ice Mammoth]

Re-read the post I quoted and all will become clear.

I try to re-read the comment before posting the quote.
I re-read it to the original. What did I understand wrong?

 

[Ice Mammoth]

I'm summarizing my Colorado-Arizona proposal.
I find it reasonable in price.

“This is a 75% deal template.
Deal explanations: Chychrun = Newhook, Olausson, 1st 2023”

I wrote in another topic - “Generalized, this is in the range: from 2 1st + 2nd to 3 1st.“
Considering all this, I think that the minimum offer for Arizona is:
Newhook, Olausson, 3rd 2022 or Newhook, 2nd 2023, 1st 2023.
I think Arizona might try to get a similar value deal with another team.
Or don't trade a player.

I made my proposal based on the needs of Colorado. I read in the comments dissatisfaction with the game Girard and news about Byram. I may have misjudged Colorado's needs.
If Colorado's main need is 2C or G, then Arizona is a bad deal.

I wrote - Crouse = 1st (OA25-OA32). I think this is a reasonable price. Of course, Arizona should try to get more. I won't be surprised by this.

I do not give up.
I will make a new offer for Colorado from the second NHL team that I support. There are two such teams.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Just take Arizona out of it.


2023 1st + Barron/Helleson for Giroux With 50% retention. I dont think Philly will have an issue retaining 50%, in terms of real $ by the time the deadline hits that's going to be well under $2M anyway.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Just take Arizona out of it.


2023 1st + Barron/Helleson for Giroux With 50% retention. I dont think Philly will have an issue retaining 50%, in terms of real $ by the time the deadline hits that's going to be well under $2M anyway.

What would colorado be willing to add if Carter Hart is included?

 

[McJedi]

Agree. Why try to win a Stanley Cup. We only have the second best player in the league on the best value contract. The best defenseman in the league.

We should stand pat and watch all of our opponents get better. In the off season we can then be in on all of the best free agents but not actually sign them. But in 5 years we'll still have our assets! Just no Cup to show for it.

God no to MAF.

At some point, you have to expect the team you have to win. Expect Bednar to coach them to win. Avs already have more than enough talent. Their play style is the problem. The 7 to 5 style of play doesn’t work in the Playoffs when the refs stop doing their jobs. Avs need to practice playing better and more focused team defense. That’s their path to several cups. The talent is already more than enough.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

And I want to date Margot Robbie.

What's the big deal about the Top 15 protected pick for COL? Why is that a deal breaker to get Giroux at 50% retained if it isn't Top 15 protected?

Do you believe COL will have a Top 10 (let alone a Top 5) pick next year? If not, then who cares?

 

[AslanRH]

What's the big deal about the Top 15 protected pick for COL? Why is that a deal breaker to get Giroux at 50% retained if it isn't Top 15 protected?

Do you believe COL will have a Top 10 (let alone a Top 5) pick next year? If not, then who cares?

It can most easily be summed up as what happened with the Ottawa pick in the Duchene trade.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

It can most easily be summed up as what happened with the Ottawa pick in the Duchene trade.

Then why would anyone trade any 1st ever unprotected, if you're worry there's a glimmer it could be Top 3? (also why Top 15? would a #14 overall pick be too unbearable?)

It's just such an off-chance that the pick will be a top pick, it doesn't seem worth the fight. Fletch is probably dumb enough to agree to that even if he shouldn't, so we'll see.

 

[AslanRH]

Then why would anyone trade any 1st ever unprotected, if you're worry there's a glimmer it could be Top 3? (also why Top 15? would a #14 overall pick be too unbearable?)

It's just such an off-chance that the pick will be a top pick, it doesn't seem worth the fight. Fletch is probably dumb enough to agree to that even if he shouldn't, so we'll see.

Just my impression of things really. Avs benefited significantly in the Ottawa collapse. The same posters who celebrated Ottawa's every failure then, don't want to risk being on receiving side of that next year.

With Giroux as a 1 year rental and the Kadri, Burakovsky, Nichushkin, and Goaltender contracts all expiring as well exposes Colorado to risk if they have a poor 2022 offseason. If they did miss in the offseason and a star player gets injured long term, it could get ugly in 2022-23.

I think if it was Giroux for 1.5 years it wouldn't be an issue. I do think it should just be top 10 protected (post lottery) but do not have the love of futures that many on here do. If it was a 2022 pick then an unprotected first wouldn't bother me.

 

[jimmysheva]

That pick from Ottawa might be forced to retire though

 

[Ice Mammoth]

This is just my suggestion. This is a 75% deal template.
I guarantee that no Rangers fan came closer than a mile when I created this offer.

New York Rangers
Alex Newhook - $908,333
J.T. Compher - $3,500,000
Total – $4,408,333

Colorado Avalanche
(2C) Ryan Strome - $1,125,000 (@50% ret) + (@50% ret - pays the Rangers) = 1st
(G) Alexandar Georgiev - $1,122,500 (@50% ret) = 2nd
Morgan Barron - $925,000
1st 2022
Total – $3,172,000

Additions and changes can be discussed if the deal is interesting.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Not enough to Philly. 2 1st and top prospect or two top prospects and a high pick.

All power to Philly if they can get it, but if Giroux returns 2sts and a top prospect or two top prospects and a high pick that's the greatest rental return we've seen in a very, very long time.

 

[Voight]

Nothing guarantees a cup this year. So why sacrifice the extended window?

Caps used to go all in every few years (especially 2016/2017) and the one the didn't (2018) they actually won the cup.

Likewise Pens went all in during the lockout season, got swept in the ECF.

IMO going all in should only be done if you have a star(s) in the last year of a contract and its not set in stone that they will stay. Or if its one last run with a core group thats going to be broken up by the cap/retirement/old age

 

[captainpaxil]

I liked this deal in the other thread. The late first isn't great but I would go with a conditional on resigning or a semis finish rather than lottery protection. It's much more likely to happen.
Flyers need rhd and this addresses that.

 

[95snipes]

Caps used to go all in every few years (especially 2016/2017) and the one the didn't (2018) they actually won the cup.

Likewise Pens went all in during the lockout season, got swept in the ECF.

IMO going all in should only be done if you have a star(s) in the last year of a contract and its not set in stone that they will stay. Or if its one last run with a core group thats going to be broken up by the cap/retirement/old age

I understand your point - that the only guarantee in making a big deadline push is that you give up the assets and winning is difficult regardless of how good your team is. I get that.

But the Capitals are a bad example to use. They essentially wasted prime Ovechkin by not making moves to shore up their defense or add a second line center.

The only time they really went went for it was 2017/Shattenkirk, but he ended up being a bad fit. The Erat trade was just a bad trade, not something that I would classify as an all in push.

The most underrated breakthrough for the Caps in 2018 was the emergence of Tom Wilson from 4th liner to one of the best power forwards in the league. Also, getting rid of Williams and Johansson was essentially addition by subtraction. Williams too slow and and Johansson line cancer. Their 2018 team was no worse than 2017.

I could also point out examples like Winnipeg where you can argue they should have made a bigger push than they did instead of taking the asset management route.

For the Avs... Their leading scorer is set to be a UFA and is very unlikely to be back. They would not go a penny over $7mm on Landeskog, I highly doubt they will do what it takes to keep Kadri. If they can't find a suitable replacement, it's back to being a 1 line team, unless Alex Newhook breaks out in a very big way. Burakovsky and Nichuskin could also price themselves out of Denver. What if Burakovsky wants 6+? What if Nichuskin wants Coleman money+? Is Sakic going to budge?

I think the reality for the Avalanche is that the Kuemper trade was the big move and anything else they do will be relatively minor. I hope I'm wrong but that is what I expect. The Avs have a fantastic core and should be competitive for a long time. They are good enough to win without making a big move. But this year they have a great team and the Western Conference is very weak. IMO they should do what it takes to ice a good of a team as possible to give them the best chance possible.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Hell no from the Avs.

Thats just stupid.

Sakic will hopefully stand pat and see what we have in the playoffs and then deal with in the offseason.

These all-in moves mortgaging everything moves are so braindead and seem to becoming a staple on hfAvs unfortunately.
Thankfully Sakic is not as dumb as Avs fans on here.


The only thing Sakic should look into is whether Fleury can be gotten for cheap if he is as unconvinced with Kuemper as I am.

But giving up a ton for the likes of Giroux or Crouse?
Pure stupidity.

Crouse isn't an all-in this year only move. I would argue that even Giroux could be a great player to have on the team for the next 3-4 seasons.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Then why would anyone trade any 1st ever unprotected, if you're worry there's a glimmer it could be Top 3? (also why Top 15? would a #14 overall pick be too unbearable?)

It's just such an off-chance that the pick will be a top pick, it doesn't seem worth the fight. Fletch is probably dumb enough to agree to that even if he shouldn't, so we'll see.

If its not worth the fight then Flyers shouldn't fight it and just accept a protected pick.

Obviously it is worth the fight because injuries and lotto chances; so first round picks are almost always protected now a days.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

If its not worth the fight then Flyers shouldn't fight it and just accept a protected pick.

Obviously it is worth the fight because injuries and lotto chances; so first round picks are almost always protected now a days.

From the Flyers POV, it's definitely worth the fight. From the COL side, it shouldn't be worth the fight.

Have to disagree - I don't think many 1sts are protected like that (Top 10 protected, for example). That's more NBA kind of stuff rather than NHL.