Proposal: Colorado All In (PHI/ARI)

[GirardSpinorama]

From the Flyers POV, it's definitely worth the fight. From the COL side, it shouldn't be worth the fight.

Have to disagree - I don't think many 1sts are protected like that (Top 10 protected, for example). That's more NBA kind of stuff rather than NHL.

I don't understand? Why is it worth it from one side and not the other?

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I don't understand? Why is it worth it from one side and not the other?

Because all likelihood, the pick will be in the twenties. The pick doesn't mean a lot for you all right now. A 1st this or even next year isn't likely to help you for a few years.

For us, we can probably shop Giroux to someone who will unprotect it in the *slim* chance the team we get the pick from, tanks it.

Basically: we have a good that you probably can't find anywhere else on the market - and I doubt you'll be the only buyers offering a 1st. If you put that protection on it without any adjustments, chances are good you won't get the asset (Giroux). We can go elsewhere and probably get better return. It's putting up a fight for no *real* reason from the POV of the Avs if that's all we're asking for, IMO.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Because all likelihood, the pick will be in the twenties. The pick doesn't mean a lot for you all right now. A 1st this or even next year isn't likely to help you for a few years.

For us, we can probably shop Giroux to someone who will unprotect it in the *slim* chance the team we get the pick from, tanks it.

Basically: we have a good that you probably can't find anywhere else on the market - and I doubt you'll be the only buyers offering a 1st. If you put that protection on it without any adjustments, chances are good you won't get the asset (Giroux). We can go elsewhere and probably get better return. It's putting up a fight for no *real* reason from the POV of the Avs if that's all we're asking for, IMO.

I agree here. If there are lots of teams offering firsts and the Avs REALLY REALLY wanted Giroux, they can drop that protection to get the advantage since they are pretty confident next year. The Flyers is also taking a risk here too though. You might get an unprotected pick from Colorado that end up worse than the protected picks from other teams.

My point was that the protection from Colorado's POV has value. We'll utilize that value to win a bidding war, but we're not dropping it without a "fight". The other teams will ask and then bow out if Claude says no.

Claude Giroux has a NMC anyways, so I doubt in reality there's gonna be much of a bidding war. He'll pick the team he wants to go to and which ever team that is (not saying its the Avs), will just pay the least they can.

 

[captainpaxil]

I agree here. If there are lots of teams offering firsts and the Avs REALLY REALLY wanted Giroux, they can drop that protection to get the advantage since they are pretty confident next year. The Flyers is also taking a risk here too though. You might get an unprotected pick from Colorado that end up worse than the protected picks from other teams.

My point was that the protection from Colorado's POV has value. We'll utilize that value to win a bidding war, but we're not dropping it without a "fight". The other teams will ask and then bow out if Claude says no.

Claude Giroux has a NMC anyways, so I doubt in reality there's gonna be much of a bidding war. He'll pick the team he wants to go to and which ever team that is (not saying its the Avs), will just pay the least they can.

Protection is really only a thought if it's a second 1st rounder. No one is dealing for giroux at the deadline unless they are making the playoffs. The value in a pick 26+ is secondary to the prospect. If there's a 2023 pick lottery protection becomes a 2nd might get you ahead of other offers but it's irrelevant to the current situation

 

[John Mandalorian]

From the Flyers POV, it's definitely worth the fight. From the COL side, it shouldn't be worth the fight.

Have to disagree - I don't think many 1sts are protected like that (Top 10 protected, for example). That's more NBA kind of stuff rather than NHL.

On the contrary. It’s very much a deal breaker. It’s not so much a fight as much as it’s simply a “no thank you.”

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

What would colorado be willing to add if Carter Hart is included?

Tough to say. But I cant imagine Byram or Newhook would be on the table.


I dont think Hart would carry a lot of value right now IMO. Awful year last year, and I know he's the furthest thing from the issue in Philly this year, his numbers considering how shitty Philly has looked, are actually pretty solid.


But I think his year last year combined with another losing record and Philly being garbage again this year will have teams questioning whether Hart can be a #1 on a playoff or contending team. At least I dont think teams would be willing to pay major assets to find out.

 

[tictactoe]

All power to Philly if they can get it, but if Giroux returns 2sts and a top prospect or two top prospects and a high pick that's the greatest rental return we've seen in a very, very long time.

I do not see why not.. Claude is good at everything. I expect Martin St. Louis, Hossa like returns. Problem is Flyers have Feltcher as GM. So return wont matter.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Philly and Zona both likely want 2022 1sts also

Was it traded cuz don't see either happening without. Protected 1st? Not for playoff teams.

Jones was traded to a non playoff team. Chicago sucks.

None of these happen without a 2022 first. None

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I do not see why not.. Claude is good at everything. I expect Martin St. Louis, Hossa like returns. Problem is Flyers have Feltcher as GM. So return wont matter.

A 28 year old Hossa returned two depth pieces, a late first and a low tier blue chip (Esposito’s production had steadily decreased in the Q).

St. Louis had a year left on his contract, and was traded for an upcoming UFA Callahan and two firsts.

The return of two firsts and a blue chipper or two blue chippers and a high puck is significantly more for UFA Giroux than either of these returns

 

[tictactoe]

A 28 year old Hossa returned two depth pieces, a late first and a low tier blue chip (Esposito’s production had steadily decreased in the Q).

St. Louis had a year left on his contract, and was traded for an upcoming UFA Callahan and two firsts.

The return of two firsts and a blue chipper or two blue chippers and a high puck is significantly more for UFA Giroux than either of these returns

I am not talking about what trades looked later down the road. So what if Hossa was 28 year old.. Could Hossa play center or was he top 5 faceoff guy?

 

[Foppberg]

Nm

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I am not talking about what trades looked later down the road. So what if Hossa was 28 year old.. Could Hossa play center or was he top 5 faceoff guy?

Age plays a big part in these deals. Is this going to be a pure rental or is it an attempted to convince a high profile free agent to stay with your team as a core piece? Hossa may not have been a C, but he was one of the best two-way forwards at that time.

The point is, the ask you’ve stated is astronomical, and you examples of players returning what you’re asking for are both contextually different and a lesser return than your ask.

 

[tictactoe]

Age plays a big part in these deals. Is this going to be a pure rental or is it an attempted to convince a high profile free agent to stay with your team as a core piece? Hossa may not have been a C, but he was one of the best two-way forwards at that time.

The point is, the ask you’ve stated is astronomical, and you examples of players returning what you’re asking for are both contextually different and a lesser return than your ask.

I do not disagree with age part,.. Also, Giroux is no Seleke trophy winner like Hossa but he aint bad either.
I realize what I am asking for - I think it is doable. We can always ask for 1st and a prospect. imo this is average ask.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

From the Flyers POV, it's definitely worth the fight. From the COL side, it shouldn't be worth the fight.

Have to disagree - I don't think many 1sts are protected like that (Top 10 protected, for example). That's more NBA kind of stuff rather than NHL.

Almost every 1st round pick traded league wide is protected at this point. What are you talking about?

 

[The Red Line]

I just don't get all these Avs panic threads. They'll be fine.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Almost every 1st round pick traded league wide is protected at this point. What are you talking about?

BRB

 

[Curufinwe]

I am not talking about what trades looked later down the road. So what if Hossa was 28 year old.. Could Hossa play center or was he top 5 faceoff guy?

Hossa was an elite two way player still in his prime.

 

[captainpaxil]

Hossa was an elite two way player still in his prime.

So is giroux

 

[Sniped90]

So we're trading you Giroux at 50% and Crouse for that?

Definitely not enough. I'm not sure I'd take that for Crouse alone but if you want us to retain 50% (4.5m) there's not a chance in hell. Plus you want us to take Compher too. His deal isn't awful by any means but he's not going to do much on our team and has almost no value at that price point. If you want Crouse you're going to have to pay a lot, and it's likely going to have to be quality, because we have no need of quantity when we have like 10 picks in the first 2 rounds coming up. And if you want us to save you another 8m, that's gonna be even more - BA has already shown he's capable of getting good assets for dumps.

I also don't think that's enough for Giroux in the first place, but I'm not a PHI fan.

You act as if giroux is signed for 3-4yrs. Its a good offer but will be beat. Im not even an avs fan. And lets all be real here everyone and their mothers know that giroux is like 98% resigning in philly so its a rental at the very most. And philly aint making the playoffs so they might as well sell off the assests that either wont be returning or get some value out of the ones that they can reacquire

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

BRB

Waiting....


I'm guessing you realized how wrong you were?

 

[McJedi]

I just don't get all these Avs panic threads. They'll be fine.

The Avs are in First place. Avs are not likely active in the trade market. Why would they be? They, unlike the Oil, can afford to be patient. Let prices drop some as the deadline approaches.

 

[tictactoe]

Hossa was an elite two way player still in his prime.

Ok, you do not have to tell me about Hossa

 

[GirardSpinorama]

So is giroux

Is he in his prime?

 

[captainpaxil]

Is he in his prime?

Hossa played an exceptional ten years after the trade and while I don't think that will be replicated giroux has been tremendous since switching to wing and I think he has at least a solid four at about his current ppg production

 

[Dead Coyote]

You act as if giroux is signed for 3-4yrs. Its a good offer but will be beat. Im not even an avs fan. And lets all be real here everyone and their mothers know that giroux is like 98% resigning in philly so its a rental at the very most. And philly aint making the playoffs so they might as well sell off the assests that either wont be returning or get some value out of the ones that they can reacquire

Man, that's a lot of inferring for one sentence of "I also don't think that's enough for Giroux in the first place, but I'm not a PHI fan."