Player Discussion: Cole Sillinger thread

[koteka]

Are we talking him just and just making it as zero-offense bottom 6 center like previous years, or like a real break out year with signs of top 6 potential on both ends of ice?

I can definitely see him making it as bottom 6 guy due to the lack of centers, but I don't think people want to see that again. He's a young guy so, rather he'd be at AHL at that point.

A break out year feels way too optimistic considering we saw zero offense last year. Usually you can at least see bits and pieces of the potential before a player breaks out. Summer is just not long enough to fix everything. Kakko and Kotkaniemi were in similar postions around 20y/o and, while both have been ok NHL players, it has taken both of them 2 seasons to get to a 40 point level.

I think he had early success, started enjoying the lifestyle (dating a Canadian celebrity, etc), and didn’t put the work in. I think he has now been humbled a little. (I hope he has been humbled.). Sophomore slumps are very common. I am still optimistic he can be a good NHL center. I don’t expect some sort of break out season, but I think he could easily play 3c this year and get 45 points and then get in the 50s next year and look like he is on a path to be a legit 2c. He definitely looks like he is being very serious and deliberate in his off season skating.

 

[VT]

Unpopular opinion but I think Sillinger makes the team out of camp.

I think our centers will be some combo of Jenner, Fantilli, Sillinger, and Kuraly. With Roslovic, Johnson, and Voronkov filling in when necessary

We have 13 forwards with "no waiver exempt". If you take away Meyer, Bemstrom and Fix-Wolanski, 10 players. With that said, I doubt Fantilli, Johnson and Marchenko will be playing in the AHL at the very least. Let's not forget Voronkov, Chinakhov and Sillinger. Dmitri has experience in the KHL and the Russian team, for example WC and OG, unlike Marchenko he didn't play in the VHL, but mostly in the top 6 of Ak Bars, one of the best KHL teams. Chinakhov has shown that he is an NHL player. The only one that is questionable, and even that is based on last season, is Sillinger. Even without him, it's 14-15, with 7 defensemen, 9 with Blankenburg and Jiricek, 22 total. There may be 20 + 2 players on the team. So 2-3 forwards and probably 1-2 defensemen will be traded.

In case of injuries, the Monsters are loaded with youngsters who can replace players for a while. With Babcock, I don't think there will be such a large amount of injuries.

That's why I'm not ruling out Roslovic being traded. I know Babcock can help him, but on the other hand, it's questionable if he'll break into the lineup. Besides, a physically strong Voronkov and Sillinger are probably better for the team in the roster.

We will see.

 

[CBJx614]

We have 13 forwards with "no waiver exempt". If you take away Meyer, Bemstrom and Fix-Wolanski, 10 players. With that said, I doubt Fantilli, Johnson and Marchenko will be playing in the AHL at the very least. Let's not forget Voronkov, Chinakhov and Sillinger. Dmitri has experience in the KHL and the Russian team, for example WC and OG, unlike Marchenko he didn't play in the VHL, but mostly in the top 6 of Ak Bars, one of the best KHL teams. Chinakhov has shown that he is an NHL player. The only one that is questionable, and even that is based on last season, is Sillinger. Even without him, it's 14-15, with 7 defensemen, 9 with Blankenburg and Jiricek, 22 total. There may be 20 + 2 players on the team. So 2-3 forwards and probably 1-2 defensemen will be traded.

In case of injuries, the Monsters are loaded with youngsters who can replace players for a while. With Babcock, I don't think there will be such a large amount of injuries.

That's why I'm not ruling out Roslovic being traded. I know Babcock can help him, but on the other hand, it's questionable if he'll break into the lineup. Besides, a physically strong Voronkov and Sillinger are probably better for the team in the roster.

We will see.

With Babcock coming I'd say there's only a few guys with locked roster spots. If a guy like Silly(or Foudy or Bemstrom for that matter) comes in and lights it up during I camp, I think Babcock gives them a spot. He doesn't care what you did last season or 3 seasons ago, but what can you offer the team right now.

 

[thebus88]

The issues with his skating ability, agility and speed/explosiveness altogether, have always been there to see. Same thing with his overall physical condition and conditioning.

I fully expect to see him moving a lot quicker and adding endurance moving forward, but, his style of skating and type of player he is I don’t see changing much. His overall skating ability (agility/side to side movement/and top speed) is never going to be “great”. Add in his somewhat limited puck handling ability, I just really stick by the idea that he would be better on the wing. While they are different players, IMO Roslovic and Sillinger are similar in the sense, that too much of their game doesn’t work well playing center at the NHL level. The difference is Sillinger might be able to still put it together, but, I like him as a winger.

I know people get REALLY bent out of shape talking about the past around here, but, I still find the idea to originally keep him around fascinating. Really wonder how the talks between Larsen/Jarmo went and who was pushing more to keep him with the team to start.

 

[VT]

With Babcock coming I'd say there's only a few guys with locked roster spots. If a guy like Silly(or Foudy or Bemstrom for that matter) comes in and lights it up during I camp, I think Babcock gives them a spot. He doesn't care what you did last season or 3 seasons ago, but what can you offer the team right now.

Honestly, I'd be pretty surprised if Bemstrom wins a roster spot. I really don't know at who's expense.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I still find the idea to originally keep him around fascinating. Really wonder how the talks between Larsen/Jarmo went and who was pushing more to keep him with the team to start.

Well we don't and likely won't know the answer to this with any conclusiveness, so I plan to decide for myself based on which one of them I want(ed) fired.

 

[stevo61]

The issues with his skating ability, agility and speed/explosiveness altogether, have always been there to see. Same thing with his overall physical condition and conditioning.

I fully expect to see him moving a lot quicker and adding endurance moving forward, but, his style of skating and type of player he is I don’t see changing much. His overall skating ability (agility/side to side movement/and top speed) is never going to be “great”. Add in his somewhat limited puck handling ability, I just really stick by the idea that he would be better on the wing. While they are different players, IMO Roslovic and Sillinger are similar in the sense, that too much of their game doesn’t work well playing center at the NHL level. The difference is Sillinger might be able to still put it together, but, I like him as a winger.

I know people get REALLY bent out of shape talking about the past around here, but, I still find the idea to originally keep him around fascinating. Really wonder how the talks between Larsen/Jarmo went and who was pushing more to keep him with the team to start.

If we use this logic with other players then Boone should have never excelled at center. Thats a player with a lot of the same concerns and he figured it out

 

[thebus88]

If we use this logic with other players then Boone should have never excelled at center. Thats a player with a lot of the same concerns and he figured it out

I don’t like the comparison. Not only will we get the Boone “haters” and semant-iacs attacking the use of “excelled” in there, other than similar skating, I see them as pretty different players.

In a “best case” or “ideal” scenario, I think even Jenner’s biggest fans (like myself) would say even he would be (or was) “best” on the wing. The CBJ as a team were there at times in the past, but, couldn’t be any farther away from that now though, IMO. That said, he’s also literally one of the best guys in the league currently at taking faceoffs, which still somehow gets dismissed by many around here, yet really should be a VERY GOOD reason to not rush or look to move Jenner from playing center AT ALL moving forward.

Even early in his NHL career Jenner was always adequate at taking faceoffs and was good at handling the center ice responsibilities up and down the ice, in a figurative and literal sense. Same can’t be said for Sillinger AT ALL. All IMO, I guess.

Not only defensively, Jenner has always been VERY good (extremely underrated IMO) around the net from an offensive standpoint. This is something that Sillinger may be able to develop over time, but, I don’t see it being a strong point moving forward and think he would be more effective in the slot/farther away from the net, as I believe Sillinger actually has a very good shot that he/the team should be utilizing, and that he just needs a little more time and space to get it off.

I think Cole Sillinger is much more of a shooter/scoring winger with a grinding aspect to him, much more than we the fans and front office would like. He’s seemingly (IMO) gotten some sort of reputation from being Mike Sillinger’s son, and looked at as a future Boone Jenner type and I don’t know if that should be looked at as the case.

While I’m not saying he can’t “put it all together”, and I also don’t look at these last couple seasons as “ruining” him in ANY way, I just think Sillinger might simply not be as versatile (or as good) as a player as he has been given credit for at certain times.

His “awareness” both offensive and defensive, is still a question mark. At this age, it can be improved on, but, it’s not a guarantee. He could end up more Roslovic than Jenner in this department. Looking at a guy of a similar age in Kent Johnson, you can see the clear difference in the speed and way they read the game.

 

[Youngguns1380]

His skating is a major holdback and that is why halfway through the season he is gassed. He has the brain to play center his only holdback is his skating and commitment (working on parts of his game and skating).

That is why I feel McKown might pass him on the depth charts and possibly make the big roster.

Until we see them in camp this is all conjecture.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

If we use this logic with other players then Boone should have never excelled at center. Thats a player with a lot of the same concerns and he figured it out

similar concerns + similar build, but i think they profile as different players in the long run. boone is a north-south guy, but doesn't move the needle at all as a playmaker. as a prospect (pre-draft, anyway) sillinger showed a lot of playmaking chops, plus-level hands and a quick release. to me that means his ideal outcome is more bo horvat than boone jenner.

In a “best case” or “ideal” scenario, I think even Jenner’s biggest fans (like myself) would say even he would be (or was) “best” on the wing.

imo on a team that has actual playmaking centers, he'd be a great fit as a complimentary top six winger. he works fine as a north/south 2C as long as he doesn't have to do much in transition.

That said, he’s also literally one of the best guys in the league currently at taking faceoffs, which still somehow gets dismissed by many around here, yet really should be a VERY GOOD reason to not rush or look to move Jenner from playing center AT ALL moving forward.

this implies that playing wing and taking face-offs are mutually exclusive, but they're not. even if boone's capable as a center, he can still play wing and take most of his line's face-offs. in new jersey, eric haula takes face-offs on jack hughes's line, but hughes is the center.

i've been saying for a while that the jackets should try that with jenner and kent johnson. kent's low flex on his stick makes face-offs an issue; boone could take those for him, but play wing, while johnson gets to use his skill/vision/playmaking from center ice.

Even early in his NHL career Jenner was always adequate at taking faceoffs and was good at handling the center ice responsibilities up and down the ice, in a figurative and literal sense. Same can’t be said for Sillinger AT ALL. All IMO, I guess.

Not only defensively, Jenner has always been VERY good (extremely underrated IMO) around the net from an offensive standpoint.

his reputation in his own end is skewed by his willingness to block shots, his high compete level and the fact that he's the only center the jackets have who can actually hold up in his own end.

in actuality, boone's overall defensive game is average at best. he's not nearly as good in his own end as someone like a backlund or danualt. they reportedly wanted compher in free agency – he would've been a great pickup (maybe not at the term he ended up getting) for similar reasons.

 

[stevo61]

My point with Boone was we use skating and puck handling concerns as reasons Sillinger will be really held back but those exact things are Boone's weaknesses and hes done completely fine. I dont think its at all unrealistic for Sillinger to boost his skating to an adequate level and that alone can help his game a ton.

For the record Boone is a top 6 forward and Voronkov is not better.

 

[CBJx614]

Honestly, I'd be pretty surprised if Bemstrom wins a roster spot. I really don't know at who's expense.

I'm not saying it's likely, just that ANYONE who comes into camp and blows Babcock away can get a spot, at least offensively. Bemstrom, Sillinger, Foudy, Mckown. It doesn't matter to him imo. Everyone has a fresh start with him.

 

[Youngguns1380]

My point with Boone was we use skating and puck handling concerns as reasons Sillinger will be really held back but those exact things are Boone's weaknesses and hes done completely fine. I dont think its at all unrealistic for Sillinger to boost his skating to an adequate level and that alone can help his game a ton.

For the record Boone is a top 6 forward and Voronkov is not better.

Boone worked on his skating and is much better than when he first entered the league. Sillinger has more tools but Boone's compete I would say is elite and Sillinger's is average or above average level. Boone's compete level helps elevate him in all aspects of his game and overall commitment to round out skills.

In fairness, Boone is at the pinnacle of his skills and Sillinger is still somewhat raw in some aspects of his game. So some of the comparisons are a bit unfair. The CBJ doesn't have anyone on the big club that has the compete level of Boone (he has no quit). Sillinger's skating is inefficient and bringing it up to average should help out his offensive side of his game. When he comes to the bench and gassed (sucking wind) it's because trying to play low (defensively) and then trying to jump into the rush. The inefficient skating costs him after 20-30 games in because he is exhausted. That is why I harp on his skating.

As for McKown passing Sillinger on the depth chart(conjecture) is because his skating is above average. McKown is better defensively and the on the dot and Sillinger is better offensively. Now McKown has a couple more years of development as well. Again camp this fall will be interesting because of all the competition.

Voronkov is not Boone to clear but more of a bottom 6 physical forward/center (right now) with some skill but does have a much needed role on this team more like a declining Foligno/Dubinsky type. Voronkov does have leadership skills and the temperament that drags you into the fight, but he is also very young in his development. It will be interesting to watch his development arc and where he ultimately lands on this team.

To be clear again we don't have another Boone right now. He is a unicorn on our team and most of the league.

 

[VT]

My point with Boone was we use skating and puck handling concerns as reasons Sillinger will be really held back but those exact things are Boone's weaknesses and hes done completely fine. I dont think its at all unrealistic for Sillinger to boost his skating to an adequate level and that alone can help his game a ton.

For the record Boone is a top 6 forward and Voronkov is not better.

If Boone is a top 6 forward we have enough a big problem. But I think Voronkov is better only he must get used to the NHL.

 

[Monk]

If Boone is a top 6 forward we have enough a big problem. But I think Voronkov is better only he must get used to the NHL.

You think Voronkov now is better than Boone now? Or you think Voronkov has the potential to be better than Boone?

 

[Byrral]

Boone “haters”

On this board?

If I cared more I'd make a poll because I doubt there are many if any.

 

[stevo61]

On this board?

If I cared more I'd make a poll because I doubt there are many if any.

There is definitely a group that believe he is a 3rd liner at best which is hilarious. The Voronkov is better thing is just an extra chuckle. Ill be happy if the dude scores 30 points let alone 30 goals

 

[CBJWerenski8]

There is definitely a group that believe he is a 3rd liner at best which is hilarious. The Voronkov is better thing is just an extra chuckle. Ill be happy if the dude scores 30 points let alone 30 goals

This, plus I think bus is also referring to when people on here were open to dealing him 3-4+ years ago when he was having injury issues. It was probably 50/50 on here whether people wanted him to stay or go, as opposed to the deadline this past year when it was like 90/10 for him staying.

As for Sillinger, maybe he is a winger. Maybe he will really benefit with a whole/partial season in the minors. I am still betting him makes the team.

 

[Byrral]

This, plus I think bus is also referring to when people on here were open to dealing him 3-4+ years ago when he was having injury issues. It was probably 50/50 on here whether people wanted him to stay or go, as opposed to the deadline this past year when it was like 90/10 for him staying.

As for Sillinger, maybe he is a winger. Maybe he will really benefit with a whole/partial season in the minors. I am still betting him makes the team.

Thinking he's at best a third liner or wanting to trade him because of whatever is not being a hater. But I know what threads to go to if I want to read hate quotes.

 

[VT]

You think Voronkov now is better than Boone now? Or you think Voronkov has the potential to be better than Boone?

I think he can be better still this season.

 

[NotCommitted]

We have 13 forwards with "no waiver exempt". If you take away Meyer, Bemstrom and Fix-Wolanski, 10 players. With that said, I doubt Fantilli, Johnson and Marchenko will be playing in the AHL at the very least. Let's not forget Voronkov, Chinakhov and Sillinger. Dmitri has experience in the KHL and the Russian team, for example WC and OG, unlike Marchenko he didn't play in the VHL, but mostly in the top 6 of Ak Bars, one of the best KHL teams. Chinakhov has shown that he is an NHL player. The only one that is questionable, and even that is based on last season, is Sillinger. Even without him, it's 14-15, with 7 defensemen, 9 with Blankenburg and Jiricek, 22 total. There may be 20 + 2 players on the team. So 2-3 forwards and probably 1-2 defensemen will be traded.

In case of injuries, the Monsters are loaded with youngsters who can replace players for a while. With Babcock, I don't think there will be such a large amount of injuries.

That's why I'm not ruling out Roslovic being traded. I know Babcock can help him, but on the other hand, it's questionable if he'll break into the lineup. Besides, a physically strong Voronkov and Sillinger are probably better for the team in the roster.

We will see.

For now, Roslovic with all his farts is the best NHL forward out of all the players you listed and can play center. So in that sense he should have no trouble making the line up.

Roslovic averages ~ 49 points / 82 gp over the past 3 seasons he's been a Blue Jacket and he's been scoring at a good rate 5v5. In that sense he's proven, Jack on a bad year should still be a ~30-35 point guy and on a good year I can see something like 25+35=60 as a completely realistic stat line for him. He has warts, yes, but I think they become overstated a bit simply because some of his tools are star player level, so watching him play often makes you feel like he could be so much better if he just "figured it out", played smarter or whatever. But if you accept him for what he is, then IMO he becomes a bit challenging piece to fit in, but potentially very usable add in middle-6 scoring.

Chinakhov had a couple strong preseason games and has a good shot but he has not shown yet the ability to do much with it. I'm actually quite high on Marchenko and think he might become a really good player, but for now I think the fans overrate him. 25 points in 59 games is not all that impressive taking into account he played a lot with either JG or Laine and he was outscored 5v5 really bad. Roslovic was -6 5v5 (40GF / 46GA), Marchenko -14 (25GF / 39GA). But again, I think the potential is definitely there, he showed a lot of flashes and seems driven to improve, so I'm confident he'll turn out good but he has not yet really shown it. Voronkov is complete unknown, from what I hear he sounds like just the type of player the team needs but need to see him against NHL competition. Sillinger has good potential but he needs to get back on track.

So in my mind, the most significant advantage over Roslovic these other guys have is they haven't had the opportunity yet to make you realize they won't cash in on their potential I'm just hoping at least some of them will.

 

[VT]

For now, Roslovic with all his farts is the best NHL forward out of all the players you listed and can play center. So in that sense he should have no trouble making the line up.

Roslovic averages ~ 49 points / 82 gp over the past 3 seasons he's been a Blue Jacket and he's been scoring at a good rate 5v5. In that sense he's proven, Jack on a bad year should still be a ~30-35 point guy and on a good year I can see something like 25+35=60 as a completely realistic stat line for him. He has warts, yes, but I think they become overstated a bit simply because some of his tools are star player level, so watching him play often makes you feel like he could be so much better if he just "figured it out", played smarter or whatever. But if you accept him for what he is, then IMO he becomes a bit challenging piece to fit in, but potentially very usable add in middle-6 scoring.

Chinakhov had a couple strong preseason games and has a good shot but he has not shown yet the ability to do much with it. I'm actually quite high on Marchenko and think he might become a really good player, but for now I think the fans overrate him. 25 points in 59 games is not all that impressive taking into account he played a lot with either JG or Laine and he was outscored 5v5 really bad. Roslovic was -6 5v5 (40GF / 46GA), Marchenko -14 (25GF / 39GA). But again, I think the potential is definitely there, he showed a lot of flashes and seems driven to improve, so I'm confident he'll turn out good but he has not yet really shown it. Voronkov is complete unknown, from what I hear he sounds like just the type of player the team needs but need to see him against NHL competition. Sillinger has good potential but he needs to get back on track.

So in my mind, the most significant advantage over Roslovic these other guys have is they haven't had the opportunity yet to make you realize they won't cash in on their potential I'm just hoping at least some of them will.

Chinakhov has the skills to play 2nd line, Voronkov can fill Barbashev's role. And what can Roslovic do? I have nothing against Jack as a person, but he's full of weaknesses that can cost a team points and even Babcock can't help. Besides, Mike wants an experienced player.

 

[stevo61]

Chinakhov has the skills to play 2nd line, Voronkov can fill Barbashev's role. And what can Roslovic do? I have nothing against Jack as a person, but he's full of weaknesses that can cost a team points and even Babcock can't help. Besides, Mike wants an experienced player.

so... not Voronkov?

 

[VT]

takže... nie Voronkov?

?

 

[stevo61]

?

You said Mike wants an experienced player but keep pencilling Voronkov in the top 6