Player Discussion: Cole Sillinger thread

[cbjthrowaway]

thought sillinger was one of our best forwards last night fwiw

 

[DarkandStormy]

If Sillinger plays two more games he will require waivers to go to Cleveland.

 

[LJ7]

0-5-5 in 15 games. If he isn't sent down he's absolutely screwed this season. He looks better than last year but not like he should be in Columbus. When Laine is more settled hopefully he moves to C, Bemstrom slots in, and Sillinger goes to Cleveland.

 

[tunnelvision]

0-5-5 in 15 games. If he isn't sent down he's absolutely screwed this season. He looks better than last year but not like he should be in Columbus. When Laine is more settled hopefully he moves to C, Bemstrom slots in, and Sillinger goes to Cleveland.

Or Danforth.

 

[LJ7]

Or Danforth.

I like him where he's at. I think he helps Kuraly a lot and keeps the 4th line going. Splitting him and Kuraly hurts both of them in my eyes.

Back on the Sillinger topic, I'm worried. If he isn't sent down then he's likely to bust. He has not shown hardly any improvement from his rookie season. Maybe his skating and skill level is so bad that he would have busted anyways, but him staying in the NHL seems to be guaranteeing he doesn't have a remote chance at success.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Sillinger isn't going to be sent down. We're long past the stage of thinking about this in terms of worrying how many games until he hits waivers. Just think of this as a decision you disagree with.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Sillinger looks like he could top out as a middling, dime-a-dozen bottom six forward. His most likely slotting will be as an organizational depth player on a two way contract or a career overseas.

If he gets claimed when (if) he gets sent down, I'd be about as concerned as I was about Foudy being claimed. Which is to say not at all.

 

[LJ7]

Sillinger isn't going to be sent down. We're long past the stage of thinking about this in terms of worrying how many games until he hits waivers. Just think of this as a decision you disagree with.

I get it, Johnson getting sent down gave me a glimmer of hope though. With their approach I do not consider Sillinger part of the team's future. His skating and tool set as a player required a very sound plan for his first few seasons as a pro in order to get him to a good NHL center level, and the approach the team is taking has not even been close to what he needed.

 

[LJ7]

Sillinger looks like he could top out as a middling, dime-a-dozen bottom six forward. His most likely slotting will be as an organizational depth player on a two way contract or a career overseas.

If he gets claimed when (if) he gets sent down, I'd be about as concerned as I was about Foudy being claimed. Which is to say not at all.

What makes this feel even worse is he's only 20. It doesn't have to be this way - but from the point the team threw away that rare chance to put him in the AHL right out of juniors to now they've done all they can to ensure he doesn't have a shot to be an NHL contributer.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'm not sure if the organization is trying to account for something in Sillinger's mental/emotional makeup, if they are hamstrung by his better-than-expected rookie/draft season play or if they just are plain old making a confounding decision with the player's development. But there is a disconnect with our understanding of the situation and what's happening.

 

[LJ7]

I'm not sure if the organization is trying to account for something in Sillinger's mental/emotional makeup, if they are hamstrung by his better-than-expected rookie/draft season play or if they just are plain old making a confounding decision with the player's development. But there is a disconnect with our understanding of the situation and what's happening.

I also think he can't skate and isn't a hockey genius for NHL standards to cover for it so he might have not been good enough anyways.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I also think he can't skate and isn't a hockey genius for NHL standards to cover for it so he might have not been good enough anyways.

You're saying the organization gave up on his development and is allowing him to settle in permanently at the NHL level as a third-line player, albeit one they hope is a plus player in that role?

 

[LJ7]

You're saying the organization gave up on his development and is allowing him to settle in permanently at the NHL level as a third-line player, albeit one they hope is a plus player in that role?

No I just wanted to add a footnote that acknowledges he might have still "failed" even if he was put in the AHL when we all thought he should have because he had some major flaws even for a pre-draft prospect, but maybe what you just said is a possibility too? That makes some sense. I don't know.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

No I just wanted to add a footnote that acknowledges he might have still "failed" even if he was put in the AHL when we all thought he should have because he had some major flaws even for a pre-draft prospect, but maybe what you just said is a possibility too? That makes some sense. I don't know.

For sure. If we're starting with the assumption that the consensus here is that he should have been or still should be sent down - for his development and for the team right now - then there is definitely a disconnect between how we see it and how thee organization sees it. Which doesn't make our "consensus" wrong, just that there is clearly information or context that we're lacking regarding decision-making. (Which always stands to reason, even when there is effective media coverage.)

 

[cbjthrowaway]

No I just wanted to add a footnote that acknowledges he might have still "failed" even if he was put in the AHL when we all thought he should have because he had some major flaws even for a pre-draft prospect, but maybe what you just said is a possibility too? That makes some sense. I don't know.

there are a ton of guys picked in the 8-15 range who fit the same profile:

• game built around size/compete
• good-not-great skill
• hard shot
• issues with footspeed

it's a paradox where guys who are physically more advanced are both more 'ready' to play in the NHL earlier but a steeper learning curve when they get there. the outcomes can vary from star (anton lundell) to borderline NHLer (logan brown) with a whole lot in the middle (gabe viliardi, tyson jost).

AHL time won't fundamentally change what kind of player he is – it won't make him faster, it won't suddenly turn him into a guy who can be the primary puck carrier on an NHL scoring line, etc. i'd rather see him in the NHL (where, imo, he belongs) with linemates who can carry him the way voracek/bjorkstrand/domi did.

not every guy needs to be a high-flying, play-driving point producer. complimentary forwards can be good players without being that – look at boone jenner. sillinger can turn into that type of player at the NHL – a versatile, competitive middle-six center with good soft skill and a nose for the net.

the case for the AHL isn't that it makes that outcome more likely, it's that he can't learn how to become effective in that role if he's playing with other complimentary players in the NHL. i thought he meshed well with gaudreau and roslovic last night – hopefully that line sticks together.

 

[majormajor]

AHL time won't fundamentally change what kind of player he is – it won't make him faster, it won't suddenly turn him into a guy who can be the primary puck carrier on an NHL scoring line, etc.

That's where we'll disagree.

They work on skating and strength during the week. Players physically develop in the AHL, they physically degrade during the NHL season. Cole Sillinger had a good summer but he needs more to get to an acceptable level. He still has improvements in tactical play and skating that he needs to make.

And the slightly lesser skilled competition is exactly what he needs to become a better puck carrier. He was a great dangler and puck control guy in junior, it's playing in the NHL far too soon that has been the problem.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

What makes this feel even worse is he's only 20. It doesn't have to be this way - but from the point the team threw away that rare chance to put him in the AHL right out of juniors to now they've done all they can to ensure he doesn't have a shot to be an NHL contributer.

Or he may just not be that good. He never had blow-you-away numbers in juniors.

After his fairly impressive rookie season, it's fully understandable why he started (and stayed most of the year) in the NHL last season.

I'm of the let him sink or swim in the NHL mindset. If his development truly was botched, I still don't think that he's a Wild Bill Karlsson v2.0 in the making. He's not central to the long term success or failure of the CBJ in my estimation. The Russian Kids are far more intriguing prospects (along with KJ) at this point.

 

[thebus88]

I pretty much agree and disagree with different things different people have regarding Sillinger and how the team has handled him.

Overall, I think his overall offensive skill might have always been overrated and his overall value and impact might top out as a very good “Boone Jenner/Brandon Dubinsky” like two-way player. Which isn’t bad, yet, it also isn’t now, and might never be, with or without him in the NHL right now. I like the WAY he plays, but, he needs to bring more to the ice.

I have significant concerns about his on-ice “awareness”. Overall on ice positioning, decisions with the puck, and shot location selection are just 2 things that I really question with him, especially as a top-15 pick.

I also think he’s still physically un(der) developed. Whereas the last couple years he was quite clearly chubby/fat, he’s now probably shed quite a bit of weight/mass without yet gaining the adequate amount of strength/muscle. This aspect of “potential” or “growth” will just need to be given time. There’s no way to really ruin this UNLESS he sustained some sort of serious or debilitating injury.

Bottom line is he should be in the AHL, IMO. And he always should have been. He’s just simply NOT good enough to be playing in the NHL. It’s not even about how much he’s practicing a week or having more time in the weight room or anything like that, he just needs TIME to physically mature. And while the “strength” and “toughness” is equal (or greater) in the AHL, the speed of play is SO MUCH slower, which is quite literally, among ALL his other issues, Sillinger’s main issue playing in the NHL.

imo

 

[MoeBartoli]

Several have said he could settle in as a plus level third line player. Well, maybe that will happen but nothing on his current path shows that. I get that he’s young, but 3 goals in the last 80 games doesn’t cut it. Yes there’s more to the game than scoring goals, but a third line center has to be more productive than that unless your a bottom feeding team (Ok, theres the cue for incoming jokes).

And for those making any comparisons to developing into a Boone Jenner, all I can say is that’s a Grand Canyon gap to cross. For his own best interest he needs to go to the AHL now.

 

[Michigan Magic]

He belongs somewhere. Just not on the third line. Maybe if we didn't overpay so many, we could've got another center.
I wouldn't be upset if he wasn't re-signed.

 

[DarkandStormy]

One more game and he requires waivers to go to the AHL. He's 3-13-16 in his last 81 NHL games.

For comparison, Sean Kuraly has 5 goals and Justin Danforth has 4 goals *this* season.

 

[Michigan Magic]

One more game and he requires waivers to go to the AHL. He's 3-13-16 in his last 81 NHL games.

For comparison, Sean Kuraly has 5 goals and Justin Danforth has 4 goals *this* season.

I think we are stuck with him this year.

 

[CBJx614]

One more game and he requires waivers to go to the AHL. He's 3-13-16 in his last 81 NHL games.

For comparison, Sean Kuraly has 5 goals and Justin Danforth has 4 goals *this* season.

Sean Kuraly is 2nd on the team in goals, its a much bigger issue than silly lol

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

One more game and he requires waivers to go to the AHL. He's 3-13-16 in his last 81 NHL games.

For comparison, Sean Kuraly has 5 goals and Justin Danforth has 4 goals *this* season.

Again, we can save ourselves a step and assume this is a decision already made. You can hate it, but it’s not worth wondering if he’ll get sent down before becoming waiver eligible.

 

[VT]

One more game and he requires waivers to go to the AHL. He's 3-13-16 in his last 81 NHL games.

For comparison, Sean Kuraly has 5 goals and Justin Danforth has 4 goals *this* season.

Gaudreau has 1 EN goal.