Player Discussion: Cole Sillinger thread

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

I appreciate both of these and get the motivation for either approach. I’m not going to pretend I know we’ll enough which is best so I will do the normal thing where I say I trust the org to make the best decision for the players development and then complain later if it doesn’t work right.

Trusting the CBJ org. Bold strategy cotton.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Trusting the CBJ org. Bold strategy cotton.

I’m trusting them to know better than me - and, for that matter, you - which route is best for the development of Cole Sillinger.

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

If Sillinger does not make the team out of camp, he will be sent to the AHL where he will again dominate so much that he will be brought back to Columbus no later than March. He will then be assigned to center one of the top two lines.

Please for the love of god. We need something, anything to go our way!

 

[Fro]

Sillinger is listed as a center, but, from what I can gather, didn’t actually play center or take faceoffs while playing for Medicine Hat.

I can’t find faceoff statistics for the USHL/ his time with Sioux Falls.

@CBJProspects can you confirm or deny?

 

[majormajor]

That’s not true though. Their schedule starts late September. Rychel started Sept 22nd and Yakupov started Sept 24th, both at 16, and ended at 17. All 3 would be considered the same age group because organized hockey groups players with the calendar year starting June ending in May.

I didn't know there was another way to define the age groups. Regardless, the relevant thing here is actual age, not formal age group. Sillinger was 7 months younger when he was point per game in the WHL, the closer comparison age-wise for Rychel would be what he did in his D-2.

 

[thebus88]

Have you watched the videos? He started at wing in Sioux Falls but was mostly at center by the later half of his season. If I remember this correctly from Scouch's Scouting Report - Sillinger absolutely killed it on faceoffs. But he was also pretty lazy about playing actual defense and backchecking and whatnot, which gets back to the bad habits debate (and also might connect to his inefficient stride).

I've watched just a small amount of video of the guys we just drafted. That's where my idea that Sillinger looks more like a winger than he does a center comes from, and where my "concerns" about his skating come from, mainly if people project or plan on him being a center at the NHL level, which some believe could be in the VERY near future.

I didn't see much positioning in the highlights that made it look like he played center often, so I went looking for faceoff numbers. I believe he only took 4 the entire year while in Medicine Hat. Young player or not, that's NOT "center" numbers.

You claim that he "mostly" played center for HALF of the year, and that Scouch (whoever that is) says he "killed it".....in the USHL. Having a good or even great faceoff percentage over a half-year's worth of faceoffs in the USHL really shouldn't mean much at all in regards to his possible future of playing center in the NHL. I definitely don't think he's proven or shown more than enough (like some are attempting to pass off) for him to be seen as being above playing in the CHL/WHL, ESPECIALLY if people are considering him as or wanting him to be a center, when he literally hasn't played the position at the Major Junior level.

 

[thebus88]

@CBJProspects can you confirm or deny?

Sillinger listed as or being seen as a future “center” is the REAL fake news.

 

[majormajor]

I've watched just a small amount of video of the guys we just drafted. That's where my idea that Sillinger looks more like a winger than he does a center comes from, and where my "concerns" about his skating come from, mainly if people project or plan on him being a center at the NHL level, which some believe could be in the VERY near future.

I didn't see much positioning in the highlights that made it look like he played center often, so I went looking for faceoff numbers. I believe he only took 4 the entire year while in Medicine Hat. Young player or not, that's NOT "center" numbers.

You claim that he "mostly" played center for HALF of the year, and that Scouch (whoever that is) says he "killed it".....in the USHL. Having a good or even great faceoff percentage over a half-year's worth of faceoffs in the USHL really shouldn't mean much at all in regards to his possible future of playing center in the NHL. I definitely don't think he's proven or shown more than enough (like some are attempting to pass off) for him to be seen as being above playing in the CHL/WHL, ESPECIALLY if people are considering him as or wanting him to be a center, when he literally hasn't played the position at the Major Junior level.

I was just answering your question that he played center this year. I really don't know if Sillinger can be a center at the NHL level, he'll need a lot of growth there. I'm also just not as fixated on position as most here, it's not my main interest with these prospects.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Sillinger listed as or being seen as a future “center” is the REAL fake news.

Having doubts is one thing, making it a certainty is another. Come on now. I am with you that he might be a winger (maybe even probably) due to his skating but it’s by no means a sure bet.

 

[majormajor]

Sillinger listed as or being seen as a future “center” is the REAL fake news.

Half of the players listed as centers aren't actually centers, so that would be nothing new.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Half of the players listed as centers aren't actually centers, so that would be nothing new.

Tim Duncan was a 4.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

If anything. We should just trade Max Domi so #16 is ready and waiting for him when he’s ready to take it.

 

[Jan]

I don't see how you can improve playing against talent you are already much better than. I would want a guy to move up to accept the next challenge, not stay where he is already proven.

Part of this is about also be Physically mature enough to take all the bumps there are to come.
Fart to many young player are getting injuries that if not permanently keeping them out, then permanently decrease their ability to play freely.

That, at least I think, is much of the reason, that prospect of teams that has patioen, are often doing better long term.

However it would be better for some to play in a better league of juniors or for some the AHL.
Current rules are good for the CHL (and some players), not so much for the best junior players.
Problem in AHL, is that it is a league of some well grown men and many prospect.

Things is actually even worse in many European leagues, where the most talented boys plays with full grown men. They may not be as talented, but they is often physically matured and hit just as hard as in NHL.
DEL example is known in Europe as a very hard hitting league, which in my point of view make it a bad (at least risky) developing league for very young players.

 

[Cowumbus]

I didn't know there was another way to define the age groups. Regardless, the relevant thing here is actual age, not formal age group. Sillinger was 7 months younger when he was point per game in the WHL, the closer comparison age-wise for Rychel would be what he did in his D-2.

Couture would be similar if only looking at production through their early CHL years. Also, Coture was 6’1” 195lbs, yet still went back to junior for two seasons before his first “two” AHL seasons, and NHL career started.

I guess my whole point is that I’d rather have a prospect be overconfident, or over-prepared before moving them into the next development stage. Guys like Bemstrom, Texier, Foudy, Peeke were rushed faster than necessary and I do think it hurt their development.

 

[majormajor]

Couture would be similar if only looking at production through their early CHL years. Also, Coture was 6’5” 195lbs, yet still went back to junior for two seasons before his first “two” AHL seasons, and NHL career started.

I guess my whole point is that I’d rather have a prospect be overconfident, or over-prepared before moving them into the next development stage. Guys like Bemstrom, Texier, Foudy, Peeke were rushed faster than necessary and I do think it hurt their development.

I do wish some of them got more AHL time, they might have been rushed to the NHL level. But I don't think you can say that they were rushed to the AHL level. Texier, Foudy, and Peeke all played really well in the AHL.

Couture being 6'5 is not right, btw.

 

[Cowumbus]

I do wish some of them got more AHL time, they might have been rushed to the NHL level. But I don't think you can say that they were rushed to the AHL level. Texier, Foudy, and Peeke all played really well in the AHL.

Couture being 6'5 is not right, btw.

Hahahahah yes. 6’1.

 

[Monstershockey]

Part of this is about also be Physically mature enough to take all the bumps there are to come.
Fart to many young player are getting injuries that if not permanently keeping them out, then permanently decrease their ability to play freely.

That, at least I think, is much of the reason, that prospect of teams that has patioen, are often doing better long term.

However it would be better for some to play in a better league of juniors or for some the AHL.
Current rules are good for the CHL (and some players), not so much for the best junior players.
Problem in AHL, is that it is a league of some well grown men and many prospect.

Things is actually even worse in many European leagues, where the most talented boys plays with full grown men. They may not be as talented, but they is often physically matured and hit just as hard as in NHL.
DEL example is known in Europe as a very hard hitting league, which in my point of view make it a bad (at least risky) developing league for very young players.

I guess I look at it that these guys have been playing most of their lives. They are well aware of the physical nature, and know as they move up the ladder it gets more physical. Trying to protect them from not getting hurt, in my opinion, makes no sense. Injuries are part of this game, and you just hope they don't get hurt real bad. Whether you protect them or not, they still may get a season or career ending injury, you just hope it doesn't happen. I don't think there is anything that can be done that won't affect the players regular game.

Over the years these guys have been playing, learning to hit is just as important to a bigger more physical player as learning to not get hit is for a smaller less physical player. Going to games the last few years, and seeing the play in the corners in front of me, I am always amazed at how little these guys move to avoid getting slammed into the boards. Sometimes, it is just a matter of changing the angle of their bodies that turn a solid hit into a glancing hit, or a total whiff.

Bottom line for me is to let these guys play their game, if they look like they can move up, then move them up. Playing against tougher talent is how they improve.

 

[Jan]

I guess I look at it that these guys have been playing most of their lives. They are well aware of the physical nature, and know as they move up the ladder it gets more physical. Trying to protect them from not getting hurt, in my opinion, makes no sense. Injuries are part of this game, and you just hope they don't get hurt real bad. Whether you protect them or not, they still may get a season or career ending injury, you just hope it doesn't happen. I don't think there is anything that can be done that won't affect the players regular game.

Over the years these guys have been playing, learning to hit is just as important to a bigger more physical player as learning to not get hit is for a smaller less physical player. Going to games the last few years, and seeing the play in the corners in front of me, I am always amazed at how little these guys move to avoid getting slammed into the boards. Sometimes, it is just a matter of changing the angle of their bodies that turn a solid hit into a glancing hit, or a total whiff.

Bottom line for me is to let these guys play their game, if they look like they can move up, then move them up. Playing against tougher talent is how they improve.

It about maturing the body and a male human body is first fully matured in the middle twenty.
Your risk of permanently damage example the back, is way higher while still maturing.
If they was rotated in an out of the line up, so they could get the needed rest, but the rules of the NHL basically disallow that.

It has nothing to with being aware of the physical play, but about the body truly maturing.

 

[Monstershockey]

It about maturing the body and a male human body is first fully matured in the middle twenty.
Your risk of permanently damage example the back, is way higher while still maturing.
If they was rotated in an out of the line up, so they could get the needed rest, but the rules of the NHL basically disallow that.

It has nothing to with being aware of the physical play, but about the body truly maturing.

I think you're going way too deep in your analysis.

 

[majormajor]

Well that discussion would certainly be relevant if we were talking about putting a spindly player like Kent Johnson in the AHL. Cole Sillinger is a solid 200+ lbs and is currently running over kids on a daily basis. He's obviously physically ready to move up.

 

[I3LI3]

was bored and curious… Cole has played in over 100 games in his career.. so I was curious what his last 82 games (a full season’s worth of numbers) has been like. so here’s my findings. (warning: NSFW)

Cole Sillinger’s last 82 games played:

he’s averaged just 13:09. (disgusting)

13 goals
24 assists
27 points
-21
2 powerplay points
136 shots on goal (1.65 shots per game bleh)
43 percent faceoffs

so yeah… not pretty. very very very upsetting how our FO/coaches have utilized silli so far in his young career.

 

[I3LI3]

Key piece to the future. Hope he wrecks up juniors/college next year

looking back with what we know now.. wish this was the case instead of jumping into the NHL as an 18 year old

 

[I3LI3]

Ugh. Just let the kid play juniors. Very very few kids are ready for AHL/NHL action at 18, and if hes “too good” for juniors then who cares let him dominate and grow his confidence.

sigh. yup.

So we finally have a young guy with super talent and plays a man's style of hockey. And some of you want to send him back to the WHL to play against boys !!!!!! Sigh.

I have yet to see this ‘man’s style of hockey’ honestly and we’re now 108 games into his career

 

[I3LI3]

His skating seems to be getting overlooked by some and being passed off and accepted as something it isn’t, IMO. Don’t think it’s anywhere near NHL caliber at this point.

He also seems to be more of a winger, especially at the NHL/AHL level.

this is a (very rare) post of @thebus88 that I can say, you were 100 percent correct.

his skating was and still is holding him back immensely. @majormajor has also talked about his skating before on our board, I remember.

 

[Cowumbus]

If Sillinger is good enough to make the team out of camp then the Jackets will not be in the running for Shane Wright. There is zero point in playing Sillinger anywhere but the top 6 (needs ice time to develop). I like Sillinger but some of the people in here need to stop drinking the Koolaid.

I guess my whole point is that I’d rather have a prospect be overconfident, or over-prepared before moving them into the next development stage. Guys like Bemstrom, Texier, Foudy, Peeke were rushed faster than necessary and I do think it hurt their development.

So we finally have a young guy with super talent and plays a man's style of hockey. And some of you want to send him back to the WHL to play against boys !!!!!! Sigh.

I mentioned in another thread but the days of the CBJ rushing prospects to the NHL are not over.