Confirmed Signing with Link: [COL] Tyson Barrie (4 years, $5.5M AAV)

[Mr Positive]

And he makes $11m in his first UFA year. So what? All that matters is the AAV. If Barrie would sign a deal that started him at $9m and stepped all the way down to $3 for an AAV of $6, I'd do that in a heartbeat. I don't care how much he makes in what year.

Edit: You're talking about in Arb. No, he wouldn't ask for $9m in arb, but he would long term if he was that good. I bet Barrie would sign long term for not much over is $6m ask.

AAV is all that matters to us, and GMs. Players only care about salary. Arbitration is only about salary. I think you are right about what Barrie would sign for.

I have to say I'm surprised he didn't ask for a bit more from arbitration. He has great numbers. Offense is what gets the big money in the league. I know defensive play is part of it too, but I would think if he were really great defensively his ask would be through the roof.

I don't think the numbers really support that he's awful defensively. The arb hearing would have to be a lot of bashing the player to justify the low dollars Sakic will have to defend.

 

[Avs44]

Sakic with dat elite GMing.


But I guess he learned from the ROR situation, amirite?

Yawn. Take your shtick elsewhere. I know, I know, it ruins your little narrative, but his value isn't going down. He's going to be signed for two years at a reasonable cap hit and still be an RFA afterwards. Just because the subtleties escape you does not mean it's ROR 2.0.

 

[Mad Brills*]

People will be surprised at how much value a team would give up for him

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Yawn. Take your shtick elsewhere.

You mean like this?

...but this team is desperate for defense. This needs to be done, and if it means giving him extra Patrick Weircioch level money to get it done for ~5 years, I wish they'd do it.

Dude, you disagree with the way it's being handled too. The only shtick here is the one where you say one thing on the mains and another on your own board.

It's not like that's even an old post either; you just made it this morning.

I know, I know, it ruins your little narrative, but his value isn't going down. He's going to be signed for two years at a reasonable cap hit and still be an RFA afterwards.

Oh boy, a team gets to add $1M onto his asking price when he inevitably puts up another 45+ point season and the cap takes another uptick... oh, and they can't re-sign him until 2017-18, meaning he and Newport have even more leverage what with UFA the summer after that in 2019. That will DEFINITELY help his value!

Just because the subtleties escape you does not mean it's ROR 2.0.

If it looks like a duck... or an inept GM... well, you know the rest.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Yawn. Take your shtick elsewhere. I know, I know, it ruins your little narrative, but his value isn't going down. He's going to be signed for two years at a reasonable cap hit and still be an RFA afterwards. Just because the subtleties escape you does not mean it's ROR 2.0.

EE also forgers that a deal can still be done... Sakic himself has said that Barrie is staying an Av.

Say the bridge is burnt and the Avs choose a 2 year award, Barrie is at least an Av for this coming season. Barrie will still want to prove he's worth what he wants on his next contract, thus keeping his value intact or even raising it.

Avs benefit no matter what here.

 

[Avs44]

You mean like this?



Dude, you disagree with the way it's being handled too. The only shtick here is the one where you say one thing on the mains and another on your own board.

It's not like that's even an old post either; you just made it this morning.

You live in such a world of extremes. You realize one is capable of having an opinion while acknowledging the other side of the argument / even agreeing with it, right? Would I as a fan have liked Barrie signed? Sure. Does him not being signed mean Sakic is a garbage GM, or that he's screwed up, as you've been saying? No. There are far more than one way to do things, and many of those ways can lead to positive conclusions for the team. With you it's either one must believe he is A) a great GM, in which case that person defending him is an idiot, or B) He's a garbage GM and everything he does is stupid and wrong.

Oh boy, a team gets to add $1M onto his asking price when he inevitably puts up another 45+ point season and the cap takes another uptick... oh, and they can't re-sign him until 2017-18, meaning he and Newport have even more leverage what with UFA the summer after that in 2019. That will DEFINITELY help his value!

What's the point about the cap going up supposed to mean? That just makes it easier to re-sign him. Barrie can be re-signed as of July 1st, next year, and teams negotiate with their players well before that, e.g. Hedman with Tampa Bay, or Ekblad (his numbers were leaked weeks before July 1). Barrie will also still be an RFA at the end of his deal, which means the team still holds leverage. If Barrie should have been re-signed by the Avs longterm at what he wants, and Sakic is an idiot for not doing so, as you hold, then I'm sure the much smarter GM's around the rest of the league will have no problems paying him, right? Pick one or the other.


I mean...Jordan Eberle has three years left before UFA, and he actually has a direct path. Chiarelli didn't panic and trade him this off-season, what an idiot. Or what about those Coyotes and OEL? Three years is a long time. The notion that a player three years from becoming a UFA, at the earliest, already has his value dropping is ridiculous. Don't let me stop you from hopscotching from one hyperbolic extreme to the next, though. Worst case scenario, absolute worst, Avs get two years of Barrie at ~50 points, let their high end defense prospects develop, and get a Keith Yandle return 2.0 (Duclair, 1st, 2nd) - and even better, because Barrie will still be an RFA, and Yandle was a UFA. The horror.

 

[Redline]

They've been meeting with the arbitrator for awhile now. Should be done any minute.

 

[Avs44]

They've been meeting with the arbitrator for awhile now. Should be done any minute.

Arbitrator won't announce a decision for 48 hours.

 

[Redline]

Arbitrator won't announce a decision for 48 hours.

Oh, did not know that. I'm assuming neither team or agent can either?

 

[Avs44]

Oh, did not know that. I'm assuming neither team or agent can either?

The arbitrator won't make a final decision until 48 hours from now. The team and player can still reach a deal outside of arbitration until that announcement is made.

 

[Redline]

The arbitrator won't make a final decision until 48 hours from now. The team and player can still reach a deal outside of arbitration until that announcement is made.

Thanks for the information.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

You've posted several times about Barrie being worse defensively than Holden, the same Holden who is fighting for a roster spot on the NYR right now. With Guenin removed, Holden is absolutely the last guy I want in the defensive zone. You make these claims of Barrie being a one trick pony, and then claim that you never said he was a sieve? Everything you've said about his defensive play makes it appear that that is exactly what you think of him.

You also accused me of using a strawman argument, I don't know if you know what that term means, because you used it incorrectly. I was being hyperbolic. There is a difference.

You, as others, are making Barrie out as if he's absolutely brutal in the defensive zone. That's really not the case. He's got his flaws (and I think Nolan Pratt is going to work wonders on those with him), but a liability in the defensive zone he is not. If anything, I think Farrish's old system was more at fault as he and Barrie (and I've said this before in this thread) never meshed. I think his D system (hello EJ in the D zone chasing a guy around to the point) was brutal for the makeup of this team.

Anyway, just don't bother replying, because it's clear that you think Barrie is a turd in the defensive zone and I disagree there and it won't change. You've even stooped so low as to make personal attacks, which just aren't needed.

It's clear that all you got is this pathetic argument tactic where you use hyperbole to claim what I say and then attack that as my real opinion. Which, btw, is a straw man argument.

I have said numerous times that Barrie is below average and specifically claimed numerous times that he is NOT a liability. But carry on with your bs narrative that I'm claiming something I have straight up said I am not saying. You obviously can't argue against the idea that Barrie is below average so you stoop to this pathetic tactic.

And look at that, more games. Now I'm personally attacking you? Lol. That is hilarious coming from the guy who started talking **** about comprehension. How many times did you tell me I didn't comprhend something in just one paragraph? But now you want to talk about personal attacks how pathetic?

Barrie is worse defensively than Holden. That doesn't make him a sieve. And how is Holden fighting for a spot in NY? They started camp already? Hyperbole is not a good way to prove your point.

Of course Holden is the last guy we want in the DZ. He sucks with the puck. His transition game is bad. But that is where he typically gets in trouble in the DZ, not that his D is good, but he typically makes mistakes with the puck. Barrie typically makes mistakes while playing actual defense. See the difference yet?

And FYI, Farrish has only been here a year. Barrie was even worse before. Barrie was actually a little better this past year. (Note- I am not giving Farrish any sort of credit, just saying Barrie was better)

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

Sakic with dat elite GMing.









But I guess he learned from the ROR situation, amirite?

please show me when ror when into the arbitration room?

 

[Super Cake]

Arbitrator won't announce a decision for 48 hours.

It could possibly take much longer than 48 hours to decide.

When Hoffman went to arbitration last year, it took much longer than the 48 for the arbitrator to reach a decision..

 

[Seedling]

I think he gets 5. I wonder if they do a one year or a two year though? They do have the weekend to work out a deal before the ruling, maybe that happens? Sounds pretty bitter though.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

please show me when ror when into the arbitration room?

You're right, Sakic did a much worse job this time out. Now he has to live or die by a third party's ruling in 48 hours or less if his approach has in fact completely destroyed the relationship between player and team to the point that Newport is no longer answering calls never mind talking an extension.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You're right, Sakic did a much worse job this time out. Now he has to live or die by a third party's ruling in 48 hours or less if his approach has in fact completely destroyed the relationship between player and team to the point that Newport is no longer answering calls never mind talking an extension.

Why are you so concerned about the actions of a GM that isn't at all involved with your team? It seems like you have something personal against Sakic.

Absolute worst case scenario, the Avs get Barrie for 2 more years at $6m (Barrie's full asking price). If he doesn't want to sign an extension at that point, they trade him as an RFA after those 2 years are up, and get a huge return. Or, I guess absolute worst case would be that he has a career ending injury in the next 2 years and they lose him for nothing, but that could happen with anyone.

 

[Asher]

I think he gets 5. I wonder if they do a one year or a two year though? They do have the weekend to work out a deal before the ruling, maybe that happens? Sounds pretty bitter though.

The damage may already be done. These hearings can get pretty ugly, especially as the team tries to prove the player isn't worth what he asking for. As I understand it, that process can get pretty ugly and strain the player's relationship with management, which is why I assume these things almost always gets settled before the hearing. Nobody wants to create hard feelings with one of their own players.

 

[mcpw]

Mike Hoffman went to arbitration last year. He signed a 4 year contract this year. It's possible, just saying.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Why are you so concerned about the actions of a GM that isn't at all involved with your team? It seems like you have something personal against Sakic.

It seems you can't or won't accept criticism of your own GM. This has come up a couple of times now- non-Avs fans apparently aren't allowed to comment. If you want an echo chamber, well, there's a board for that.

Absolute worst case scenario, the Avs get Barrie for 2 more years at $6m (Barrie's full asking price). If he doesn't want to sign an extension at that point, they trade him as an RFA after those 2 years are up, and get a huge return.

Just like the YUGGGGE return Sakic got for ROR? Yep, those pieces sure helped the club make the post-season this past year. Stellar work.

Or, I guess absolute worst case would be that he has a career ending injury in the next 2 years and they lose him for nothing, but that could happen with anyone.

Trading him now while he's under team control for three years will apparently return less value than trading him in 2 years when he is a season from UFA... that's some interesting logic right there. Very interesting indeed.

 

[slobbergob]

Just like the YUGGGGE return Sakic got for ROR? Yep, those pieces sure helped the club make the post-season this past year. Stellar work.

Yeah, it's too bad the 20 year old defensemen we traded for didn't come in and turn the blueline around. Or the 21 year old forward prospect and defensemen we drafted didn't step right in and carry this team.

Or maybe this was a clear "future's" trade where the effects were clearly not going to be seen for a few years.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

It seems you can't or won't accept criticism of your own GM. This has come up a couple of times now- non-Avs fans apparently aren't allowed to comment. If you want an echo chamber, well, there's a board for that.



Just like the YUGGGGE return Sakic got for ROR? Yep, those pieces sure helped the club make the post-season this past year. Stellar work.



Trading him now while he's under team control for three years will apparently return less value than trading him in 2 years when he is a season from UFA... that's some interesting logic right there. Very interesting indeed.

There is a difference between criticizing a GM, and the stream of negative comments that you've left in your wake. Sakic has made a couple of questionable moves, but very few Avs fans think that not giving in to every one of Newport's demands is one of them. Not sure why you think it's your mission to change our minds. Like I said, it's starting to seem personal.

And, looking at what we got for ROR, yes, that's pretty much the template we'd be looking at. And, as we've explained numerous times in the past, judging a futures trade based on the first season is being myopic. If you still won't concede that Zadorov, Grigorenko, Compher and the 31st OA pick was a good return for ROR + McGinn, I'm not wasting my time trying to convince you.

Where did I say he'd return more in 2 years? Having Barrie play for us for 2 years + the return we'd get then > the return we'd get now. We also don't have anyone ready to replace him now. In 2 year, maybe we will, maybe we won't, we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

[KCC]

A decent top 4 dman is going to get around 5-6. Not surprised by how much he wants. Avs need to pay it and figure it out in their cap world or else just trade him.

 

[strictlyrandy]

A decent top 4 dman is going to get around 5-6. Not surprised by how much he wants. Avs need to pay it and figure it out in their cap world or else just trade him.

I think had they found a way to ditch John Mitchell and Brad Stuart this off season it would be a different story. It's also rumored that the Avs made a very reasonable long term offer to Barrie, but he could be seeking more than MacKinnon, and that is dangerous territory.

This is certainly a very intriguing situation to watch develop. Avs know they have the upper hand and that they really don't have to do anything right now. It would not surprise me in the slightest if a deal got done before the arbitration ruling is announced, but I can also see Barrie seeing this thing out.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

A decent top 4 dman is going to get around 5-6. Not surprised by how much he wants. Avs need to pay it and figure it out in their cap world or else just trade him.

Why are you assuming Newport didn't want this to get to arbitration? They have a history of being tough to negotiate with.