Confirmed Trade: [COL/NYI] Brock Nelson (50%), William Dufour for Calum Ritchie, Oliver Kylington, cond. 2026/27 1st-round pick, cond. 2028 3rd-round pick

[miscs75]

as the post above you said , Beau was a cap dump and Raty was having a mediocre season in the AHL after a very strong draft plus 1 season in Europe . looks like Lou sold high on him

no idea how any Islander fan can shit on this return , a solid prospect and a 1st is an excellent return

Us Isles fans are just overall never happy. Even between the 2 ECF appearances recently people were pushing to sell off assets and rebuild because the team just wasn’t good enough to win a playoff round again. I’m sure another team would have offered Lou a bit more but he probably went with the team that Brock liked the most.

 

[jfhabs]

Well done for the Islanders, Ritchie is a great prospect

 

[Riseonfire]

I thought Will Dufour was a good prospect. How did it get the point that's now a part of a trade?

Stagnation? Not much improvement in his footwork and speed.

 

[BHD]

Stagnation? Not much improvement in his footwork and speed.

Okay, I can see that.

 

[895]

Crazy how the isles get twice as much for a pure rental 2nd/3rd line centre Brock Nelson as they got for top pairing defence man in his prime Toews.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I thought Will Dufour was a good prospect. How did it get the point that's now a part of a trade?

Had a monster final season in the Q, then came in and had a really strong rookie year in the AHL.

He took a huge step back last season, albeit there were family problems that even caused him to leave the team for a while.

He hasn't been able to bounce back this season (yet) either.

It's understandable looking at his entire playing style to have doubts about anything resembling an NHL future, but he does have an NHL shot. Perhaps even an above-average NHL shot. It's deceptive and deadly - and he just hasn't used it enough in recent seasons.

And Bridgeport has been anything but a hotbed for the development of forwards. One can hope that this change of scenary - and coaching staff - can see him turn things around.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Christ. I would’ve traded Donato + for this package.

Hell, Donato straight up for that 1st.

Of course you would have, but why would the Avs have traded that for a one season wonder and poor skater in Donato?

Nelson has scored 35 goals a season for the past 3 years and is one of the fastest and most effective rush players in the NHL.

Brock fits the Avs’ style to a tee.

 

[Chardo]

Crazy how the isles get twice as much for a pure rental 2nd/3rd line centre Brock Nelson as they got for top pairing defence man in his prime Toews.

Because at the time of that trade, Toews was a promising but frustrating young dman, not a top pairing dman in his prime.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

My bad for using the word "young".

I was thinking "mid-20s" and should have written that.

As for middle six, when Beau was moved, he was 25 and already had this resume:
View attachment 988753

That's a middle six forward in everbody's book.

Now back to the regularly scheduled programming.

I think middle six forward is entirely accurate, but I also think he was underperforming and a cap dump at 4.1 million and his stats trending down. I think Van traded him for a 4th or 5th?

I’d like to hear your opinion on Ritchie vs Raaty though, I always respect your prospect opinions and takes. I don’t want to do revisionist history here but Raaty dropped in the draft and was a higher potential pick for the isles and he delivered post draft and also looked like an NHLer in his brief islander stint. Can’t comment since then but Ritchie seems to be higher rated at point of trade. I see his name on league wide top 30 lists. I think Ritchie is the better prospect here, not by a ton but I think it’s fair to say a good amount. Both would qualify as best prospect each team has to offer at the time but I think it’s fair to say Ritchie is the better prospect based on what I’ve read.

 

[Tralfamadore]

lol Ritchie definitely has some 2nd line upside but so did Newhook and Jost. I'd argue he's about as likely to hit that upside as they were. I hope I'm wrong though, he seems like a good kid.

Good trade for both sides. Avs have to go for it every year and this is definitely going for it.

Honestly he's less likely. Those two had better pedigree than Ritchie did as prospects. Not going to count Ritchie out as an NHLer but I was never that big on him.

Even with that said this still seems like a lot for Nelson. Avs probably had to outbid some other teams for their guy.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Crazy how the isles get twice as much for a pure rental 2nd/3rd line centre Brock Nelson as they got for top pairing defence man in his prime Toews.

It’s crazy this narrative has gone on so long.

If toews was as good as he is now or after the trade why did the isles only get two seconds. Why did Toews only get a 4x4 contract by the Avs? Why did no other team pony up for an Olympic dman? It’s because he was the isles 6th best dman at the time, isles still went to the eastern conference finals without him and Toews kept progressing.

Avalanche in theory tried the same thing with Ross Colton. Similar value and contract, no one shits on the Lightning for that trade because it didn’t work out. Avalanche could have gotten the same lol for Newhook who also got traded at a similar time but he didn’t progress. Toews did.

Its ok, it happens.

 

[The Real JT]

That is a very generous description of Beauvillier and Raty

I was one of Beau’s few remaining fans in the Island but I agree he was a bit of a throw in for cap purposes.

I’ll disagree on Raty. He was a formerly highly regarded prospect with some saying he was potentially a top 5 player in his draft year (albeit that was one year prior to that draft). Fast forward to his draft year and his stock dropped and the Isles picked him in the second round. He far exceeded expectations and I’d say he was easily the value of a mid to late first round pick at the time of the trade.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Christ. I would’ve traded Donato + for this package.

Hell, Donato straight up for that 1st.

There's a reason Donato has been passed around like a bottle of Fireball. He's not very good

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

as the post above you said , Beau was a cap dump and Raty was having a mediocre season in the AHL after a very strong draft plus 1 season in Europe . looks like Lou sold high on him

Yep, not quite accurate.

Beau was 25, a cog in the playoff runs in each of Lou's first three season at the helm, and a former first rounder with wheels who - despite being infuriatingly inconsistent - was good for 30+ points and constantly hinted at being capable of more.

But I don't remember his inclusion in the deal breaking all too many hearts. So there's that.

Even if $$$ had to go the other way, calling a player a cap dump would indicate that he doesn't really have a role in a team's plans and is usually just buried via whatever cap-benficial means are necessary. In Vancouver, he started out right in the top 6 and initially came out of the gates like gangbusters. Folks were even joking around about how he was producing more than Horvat those first few weeks.

Raty was one of the Islanders top 3 prospects (granted, in a seriously poor pipeline) at the time of the trade and if you call having 15 points in 27 AHL games as a predominantly 19-year-old North American rookie before making a 12-game NHL debut "mediocre", then it's clear that you've got little desire to be anything resembling sincere in your assessment.

Sure, there were fans who had doubts about his skating moving forward but no-one was anything but impressed with what he had managed to do in such a short period of time.

And since then, he's had a 52-point AHL campaign and was then scoring at a PPG pace there before getting into 21 NHL games this season, so his story is hardly complete.

But analyzing the actual construction of that deal is not about what has happened with the pieces since, only their perceived value at the time.

no idea how any Islander fan can shit on this return , a solid prospect and a 1st is an excellent return

Folks will view things in a vacuum. Raising an eyebrow as to whether Lou might have undersold here for a myriad of reasons is hardly shitting on the return.

Ritchie and the 1st look like a great basis for any deal. But the other parts basically leave it at that basis.

The market this week has looked to be stronger for sellers than this deal appears when you take that into consideration. Look no further than what Walman just brought back for San Jose.

Nelson was essentially one of the 3 most sought after pieces out there.

There were definitely grounds to believe a bonafide mid-20s NHLer, a strong prospect, and a first would be the starting point.

Now we'll never know.

***

The best part of the deal is that Lamoriello showed the willingness to do something logical that involves putting the team's future before some ill-conceived fantasy about the team's chances in the here and now.

It's something Islander fans haven't seen from him in his tenure, despite knowing for 4 straight seasons that the team really isn't constructed to do anything but battle for that final wild card spot and then bow out quietly in the first round.

And the fans have been pleading for a different outlook...

 

[Coffee]

So much for the Wild fans that kept bad-mouthing him and insisting the max return was a 1st and mediocre prospect, or a 2nd and a decent prospect for a 'rental' . . . and that they'd just pick him up in the summer. At least that last one is still a possibility.

Of course, if they can't sign him, the tone will change to "well, we really didn't want him anyhow"

I never knew Wild fans were like that on this site ?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Wow, what an overpay for a rental!

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I’d like to hear your opinion on Ritchie vs Raaty though, I always respect your prospect opinions and takes. I don’t want to do revisionist history here but Raaty dropped in the draft and was a higher potential pick for the isles and he delivered post draft and also looked like an NHLer in his brief islander stint. Can’t comment since then but Ritchie seems to be higher rated at point of trade. I see his name on league wide top 30 lists. I think Ritchie is the better prospect here, not by a ton but I think it’s fair to say a good amount. Both would qualify as best prospect each team has to offer at the time but I think it’s fair to say Ritchie is the better prospect based on what I’ve read.

Ritchie is a higher-rated prospect at this time than Raty was when traded.

Ritchie's also a fine prospect to bring back. I think any deal involving Nelson now would have to have included a prospect of this ilk. No complaints there. Had the deal been with i.e. Winnipeg, I think a Barlow would have been the ask. Etc.

Like you say, both Raty and Ritchie are top dogs in the pipeline at a time when both teams had relatively thin prospect pipelines.

They're actually the exact same size too.

Ironically, I'd say that the biggest concerns with Ritchie are skating and goal-scoring ability, not that either is seen as a gamebreaker moving forward. But that was the case with Raty too. And in Raty's case, it might have been the core reason (yes, there was talk about him having spent too much time in the gym and thus, having taken away from his skating mechanics) why he dropped in such a considerable fashion.

Raty has been fine though. We tend to forget that he's just 22 and coming off a 52-point AHL season. Now he's had 33 in 33 games and has suited up 21 times for Vancouver, even if 4 points is little to write home about. His evolution is ongoing.

Ritchie is exciting. He joins Eiserman right at the top of things in this system and looks like a guy who should basically replace Nelson in the future. Dunno how long it'll take or if we wanting him spending too much time in Bridgeport. Next season will be very telling. He's got an ELC already. He's been a big playmaker this season and that's his strength. Gotta think the NYI staff specifically targeted him.

Do they envision him with Eiserman?

We can start doing that now.

If he doesn't get moved in another deal...

 

[saintunspecified]

Crazy how the isles get twice as much for a pure rental 2nd/3rd line centre Brock Nelson as they got for top pairing defence man in his prime Toews.

Brock Nelson isn't a star, but he's no 2nd/3rd line tweener either. He's got one of the sweetest wristers in the league.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Of course you would have, but why would the Avs have traded that for a one season wonder and poor skater in Donato?

Nelson has scored 35 goals a season for the past 3 years and is one of the fastest and most effective rush players in the NHL.

Brock fits the Avs’ style to a tee.

Temper that statement. Brock's got a good stride but he never appears fast. Reminds me of Vladamir Malakhov when he was an Islander.

Didn't seem like much effort, sometimes appeared slow but he kept pace with all the rushing forwards.

 

[Mike C]

That top 6 is not messing around

Well. Isn't this the time of year that Nichushkin does mess around??

 

[saintunspecified]

Because at the time of that trade, Toews was a promising but frustrating young dman, not a top pairing dman in his prime.

Trotz wanted to keep Leddy. That was the word at the time. After a year of Trotz as a GM, maybe it makes more sense now taking his personnel judgment into account. imo it was a bad move then, and knowable. NYI made a mistake, and should have found a way to dump Leddy. And from the point of view of the GM you take the perspective of the coach who was considered one of the best if not *the* best coach in hockey at the time.

 

[BurnsWhenIPee]

Shocked they gave up Ritchie for a rental. I'm assuming Sakic is confident they will sign Nelson.

 

[saintunspecified]

Temper that statement. Brock's got a good stride but he never appears fast. Reminds me of Vladamir Malakhov when he was an Islander.

Didn't seem like much effort, sometimes appeared slow but he kept pace with all the rushing forwards.

It's not about his speed (he's not slow though), but he is an extremely effective player on the rush. His ability on 3 on 2 counters has been a hallmark of NYI's "2nd" line for a very long time. It's about his wingspan, and his ability to get accurate wristers off with different stick positions. He can shoot with extension, pull it inside, or make a quick inside move. It's no gimmick - it's just difficult to defend.

 

[Fatass]

Shocked they gave up Ritchie for a rental. I'm assuming Sakic is confident they will sign Nelson.

Nelson is really good. He makes the Avs better right now. They’ve got a good shot at the Cup adding him.

 

[BKarchitect]

Shocked they gave up Ritchie for a rental. I'm assuming Sakic is confident they will sign Nelson.

Certainly would be the goal but the Avs usually aren’t about throwing long-term deals at high AAV to guys who are 34.

The primary goal is to chase a Cup and Brock adds a ton to that end.

But what you don’t want to do is to chase an extension at all costs for an older guy just because the perceived notion among fans is that you have to because you paid up a really nice prospect to get him.

I don’t see a “sight unseen” extension on the table here. I think we see how Brock fits (hard to imagine anything but “well”), we go chase that glory and then we see how both sides are feeling closer to July 1.