Confirmed Trade: [COL/NYI] Brock Nelson (50%), William Dufour for Calum Ritchie, Oliver Kylington, cond. 2026/27 1st-round pick, cond. 2028 3rd-round pick

[xIsle]

Because at the time of that trade, Toews was a promising but frustrating young dman, not a top pairing dman in his prime.

Toews was frustrating?... For a young defenseman at the time, he brought a lot more positives than negatives, and he was already Leddy's equal during his last season with the Isles in 2019-20. Lamoriello played his cards wrong.

 

[bossram]

Definitely an expensive price, but man, COL is loaded to the teeth.

 

[hotpaws]

Yep, not quite accurate.

Beau was 25, a cog in the playoff runs in each of Lou's first three season at the helm, and a former first rounder with wheels who - despite being infuriatingly inconsistent - was good for 30+ points and constantly hinted at being capable of more.

But I don't remember his inclusion in the deal breaking all too many hearts. So there's that.

Even if $$$ had to go the other way, calling a player a cap dump would indicate that he doesn't really have a role in a team's plans and is usually just buried via whatever cap-benficial means are necessary. In Vancouver, he started out right in the top 6 and initially came out of the gates like gangbusters. Folks were even joking around about how he was producing more than Horvat those first few weeks.

Raty was one of the Islanders top 3 prospects (granted, in a seriously poor pipeline) at the time of the trade and if you call having 15 points in 27 AHL games as a predominantly 19-year-old North American rookie before making a 12-game NHL debut "mediocre", then it's clear that you've got little desire to be anything resembling sincere in your assessment.

Sure, there were fans who had doubts about his skating moving forward but no-one was anything but impressed with what he had managed to do in such a short period of time.

And since then, he's had a 52-point AHL campaign and was then scoring at a PPG pace there before getting into 21 NHL games this season, so his story is hardly complete.

But analyzing the actual construction of that deal is not about what has happened with the pieces since, only their perceived value at the time.



Folks will view things in a vacuum. Raising an eyebrow as to whether Lou might have undersold here for a myriad of reasons is hardly shitting on the return.

Ritchie and the 1st look like a great basis for any deal. But the other parts basically leave it at that basis.

The market this week has looked to be stronger for sellers than this deal appears when you take that into consideration. Look no further than what Walman just brought back for San Jose.

Nelson was essentially one of the 3 most sought after pieces out there.

There were definitely grounds to believe a bonafide mid-20s NHLer, a strong prospect, and a first would be the starting point.

Now we'll never know.

***

The best part of the deal is that Lamoriello showed the willingness to do something logical that involves putting the team's future before some ill-conceived fantasy about the team's chances in the here and now.

It's something Islander fans haven't seen from him in his tenure, despite knowing for 4 straight seasons that the team really isn't constructed to do anything but battle for that final wild card spot and then bow out quietly in the first round.

And the fans have been pleading for a different outlook...

the return was much better for Nelson than what you paid for Bo regardless how hard your trying to spin it

you can hate on Lou all you want but getting a quality prospect and a 1st for Nelson at his age was a good return

 

[xIsle]

It’s crazy this narrative has gone on so long.

If toews was as good as he is now or after the trade why did the isles only get two seconds. Why did Toews only get a 4x4 contract by the Avs? Why did no other team pony up for an Olympic dman? It’s because he was the isles 6th best dman at the time, isles still went to the eastern conference finals without him and Toews kept progressing.

Avalanche in theory tried the same thing with Ross Colton. Similar value and contract, no one shits on the Lightning for that trade because it didn’t work out. Avalanche could have gotten the same lol for Newhook who also got traded at a similar time but he didn’t progress. Toews did.

Its ok, it happens.

There, frankly you are exaggerating! Your memory is clearly failing. Toews was the 4th most used defenseman by Trotz in his last season despite the very good depth we had at this position. He was the only one with Leddy to be able to carry the puck with ease. The Islanders may not have had the choice to get rid of one of the two, but Lou made the wrong choice. I am pretty sure that the majority of Isles fans would have found it more logical, even at the time, for Leddy to leave instead of Toews.

And as for the 4x4 contract, it was signed after the covid crisis and the salary cap had stagnated or even gone down if I remember correctly. So it wasn't such a bad contract for Toews under the circumstances, whereas Lamoriello had offered a very bad one to Pageau!

 

[periferal]

The best part of the deal is that Lamoriello showed the willingness to do something logical that involves putting the team's future before some ill-conceived fantasy about the team's chances in the here and now.

It's something Islander fans haven't seen from him in his tenure, despite knowing for 4 straight seasons that the team really isn't constructed to do anything but battle for that final wild card spot and then bow out quietly in the first round.

And the fans have been pleading for a different outlook...

Chap-

You need to take a step back on this and see the big picture. Lou was doing everything possible to resign Nelson. It was Nelson that rejected all of his offers and thus it was Nelson who forced Lou's hand.

If Lou was really "willing to do something logical and put the team's future" first then he never would've tried to resign Nelson...And would've traded Palmieri.

He's literally addicted to resigning vets and running it back - No matter how obvious it is that the Isles are not close to a Cup and desperately need to get younger and more talented.

And he will keep doing so until he's removed (or dies - And I don't say that lightly or wish for it). Don't kid yourself about anything else.

 

[Chardo]

Toews was frustrating?... For a young defenseman at the time, he brought a lot more positives than negatives, and he was already Leddy's equal during his last season with the Isles in 2019-20. Lamoriello played his cards wrong.

He led the league in delay of game penalties for pucks over the glass.

 

[xIsle]

He led the league in delay of game penalties for pucks over the glass.

Oh really? You remember that after 4 or 5 years?... I personally have no memory of a specific penalty for the 2019-20 season for any player from the Isles. You seem to be a very resentful person to still remember it today!

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Chap-

You need to take a step back on this and see the big picture. Lou was doing everything possible to resign Nelson. It was Nelson that rejected all of his offers and thus it was Nelson who forced Lou's hand.

If Lou was really "willing to do something logical and put the team's future" first then he never would've tried to resign Nelson...And would've traded Palmieri.

He's literally addicted to resigning vets and running it back - No matter how obvious it is that the Isles are not close to a Cup and desperately need to get younger and more talented.

And he will keep doing so until he's removed (or dies - And I don't say that lightly or wish for it). Don't kid yourself about anything else.

Perif-

I wrote the post you quoted like 5 or 6 hours before the end of the trade deadline, admittedly thinking that Nelson was simply the first (and granted, biggest) domino to fall today.

Now I've come home from a game I coached to see that that was it (save for the AHL deal).

That was all.

The Isles are the same gosh-darn squad they were yesterday minus their best offensive player.

Right now I'm sitting here absolutely flabbergasted. I'm in a state of shock. Forget what I wrote before - Lou threw it out the window.

And I'm dumbfounded. Nothing done over the past 24 hours helps the team in either the here and now or next season.

In essence, Nelson forced Lou's hand... And thank goodness he did.

But this sellers market was a serious opportunity for the Islanders to change course in a bold (and recommended) attempt to escape their deafening mediocrity as soon as next season.

Instead, the only worse outcome would have been Nelson not getting dealt.

Everything else was exactly what Islanders fans had worried about.

Even the LousMasterClass backers have got to be sitting there wondering why this season was just thrown down the drain without using the opportunity to really kickstart things for tomorrow (as in next season).

It's just all so pointless...

 

[periferal]

Perif-

I wrote the post you quoted like 5 or 6 hours before the end of the trade deadline, admittedly thinking that Nelson was simply the first (and granted, biggest) domino to fall today.

Now I've come home from a game I coached to see that that was it (save for the AHL deal).

That was all.

The Isles are the same gosh-darn squad they were yesterday minus their best offensive player.

Right now I'm sitting here absolutely flabbergasted. I'm in a state of shock. Forget what I wrote before - Lou threw it out the window.

And I'm dumbfounded. Nothing done over the past 24 hours helps the team in either the here and now or next season.

In essence, Nelson forced Lou's hand... And thank goodness he did.

But this sellers market was a serious opportunity for the Islanders to change course in a bold (and recommended) attempt to escape their deafening mediocrity as soon as next season.

Instead, the only worse outcome would have been Nelson not getting dealt.

Everything else was exactly what Islanders fans had worried about.

Even the LousMasterClass backers have got to be sitting there wondering why this season was just thrown down the drain without using the opportunity to really kickstart things for tomorrow (as in next season).

It's just all so pointless...

Amen Chap. Now all of this is 1000% spot on. That said here's the worst part...

It appears that the biggest "LousMasterClass backer" is Scott Malkin.

So most all of us out in the cheap seats and scream at the top of our lungs that the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes, but Malkin seems to think he is. Until he wakes up and/or grows balls we're all on the Titanic as fans.

 

[Chardo]

Oh really? You remember that after 4 or 5 years?... I personally have no memory of a specific penalty for the 2019-20 season for any player from the Isles. You seem to be a very resentful person to still remember it today!

I remember it vividly, and it's an actual fact. No resentment.

 

[benfranklin]

He led the league in delay of game penalties for pucks over the glass.

What a random accusation. Well, easy to fact check. 16 PIM that season:

19-20
Tripping - XX
Holding - XX
Interference - X
DOG - Puck over Glass - X
Slashing - X
Hooking - X

So he led the league with 1?

 

[JoeSakic13]

What a random accusation. Well, easy to fact check. 16 PIM that season:

19-20
Tripping - XX
Holding - XX
Interference - X
DOG - Puck over Glass - X
Slashing - X
Hooking - X

So he led the league with 1?

 

[Avs2022]

Girard?

Girard has the amazing ability to miss the net from wherever he shoots.

 

[Islesfan22]

Ritchie is a higher-rated prospect at this time than Raty was when traded.

Ritchie's also a fine prospect to bring back. I think any deal involving Nelson now would have to have included a prospect of this ilk. No complaints there. Had the deal been with i.e. Winnipeg, I think a Barlow would have been the ask. Etc.

Like you say, both Raty and Ritchie are top dogs in the pipeline at a time when both teams had relatively thin prospect pipelines.

They're actually the exact same size too.

Ironically, I'd say that the biggest concerns with Ritchie are skating and goal-scoring ability, not that either is seen as a gamebreaker moving forward. But that was the case with Raty too. And in Raty's case, it might have been the core reason (yes, there was talk about him having spent too much time in the gym and thus, having taken away from his skating mechanics) why he dropped in such a considerable fashion.

Raty has been fine though. We tend to forget that he's just 22 and coming off a 52-point AHL season. Now he's had 33 in 33 games and has suited up 21 times for Vancouver, even if 4 points is little to write home about. His evolution is ongoing.

Ritchie is exciting. He joins Eiserman right at the top of things in this system and looks like a guy who should basically replace Nelson in the future. Dunno how long it'll take or if we wanting him spending too much time in Bridgeport. Next season will be very telling. He's got an ELC already. He's been a big playmaker this season and that's his strength. Gotta think the NYI staff specifically targeted him.

Do they envision him with Eiserman?

We can start doing that now.

If he doesn't get moved in another deal...

Only watching highlights of Ritchie he seems to have really good skill and vision. You would have to think the plan is to pair Ritchie with a sniper like Eiserman in the near future.

 

[boredmale]

Does anybody have details on the condition of that first rounder?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Girard has the amazing ability to miss the net from wherever he shoots.

Tiny goals are easier to miss.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Does anybody have details on the condition of that first rounder?

I believe just top 10 protected, but not 100% sure

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Does anybody have details on the condition of that first rounder?

From what I can find, it's conditional on what happens with the the Top 10 protected 1st they sent to Philly to get rid of RyJo. Basically, if the Avs implode and pick top 10 this year, Philly would get 2026, and NYI would get 2027. Otherwise, Philly gets 2025, and NYI get 2026.

 

[boredmale]

I believe just top 10 protected, but not 100% sure

 

[EdAVSfan]

At the end of the day, the price was high, but he was by far, the most sought out center and a quality one at that.

The winner of the Nelson sweepstakes was always going to pay a high price. The simple nature of supply and demand predicted that.

Had there been 3 or 4 2C types available, prices would’ve been more reasonable.

So while some fans may be second-guessing if they paid too much, other teams fans are second-guessing whether they should’ve simple ponied up.

The AVS are healthy and their 2 best players are both having MVP seasons. Not to mention, looks like a massive emotional boost from their captain coming back.
If ever there was, THIS, was the year for thr Avs to legitimately go all in.

 

[miscs75]

Girard has the amazing ability to miss the net from wherever he shoots.

So he’s like Ryan Pulock without the 100mph slap shot.

 

[dirtydanglez]

he instantly had chemistry with nichushkin. he gives the avs a legit 2nd line. he's the piece they were looking for.

 

[miscs75]

he instantly had chemistry with nichushkin. he gives the avs a legit 2nd line. he's the piece they were looking for.

Just wait until playoff Brock shows up and he scores 2 in a series clinching game.