Confirmed Signing with Link: [COL] D Devon Toews signs extension with the Avalanche (7 years, $7.25M AAV)

[Bounces R Way]

I’ve watched somewhere in the vicinity of 95% of the games Toews has played in an Avalanche sweater and I can absolutely tell you that he is a #1D. He checks every box: skating, defending, gap control, decision-making, physicality, transition play, special teams, goal scoring, and stick work. Just because Makar does everything better than him doesn’t mean there’s a weakness in his game. And to add a hot take to this thread, Makar benefits more from Toews than vice versa.

That's probably fair. I got no problem with saying he's capable of being a #1D on some other NHL teams. There's some bad bluelines in this league he would instantly make a lot better. The statement that he'd be the best defenseman on 90% of NHL teams is what I was originally taking issue with. That's just plainly false.

Makar has missed more than a handful of games, he missed 20+ last season alone and Toews has filled in and played as a #1 and done so at a level where he should be considered to be a top 20 D, which is the definition of being a number 1

Does this also apply to other positions? Has Malkin never been a #1C? Because if not, your metric sucks.

Man, this is like arguing Malkin and Draisaitl aren't 1C's.

Man you guys are touchy. Malkin and Draisaitl each have many many seasons of 1C production, Hart and Art Ross trophies. Toews has one season where he was top 10 in D scoring, coincidentally when his D partner won the Norris, and another where he's tied for 19th with Justin Faulk.

It's different because centers typically play on different lines. Toews is plenty good in his own right, but you can't ignore the boost he gets playing with Makar's talent.

 

[JoeSakic13]

mack and toews both took discounts. lucky avs fans

So did Makar, he could have easily taken Nurse money.

 

[Avs44]

Toews agent is not Pat Brisson.

NHL Contracts by Agent Pat Brisson | Puckpedia

See the active player contracts and client list for Pat Brisson at CAA Sports LLC on PuckPedia.

puckpedia.com

I think it also just comes down to the player clearly wanting to be in Colorado...Friedman has been reporting the past few weeks that the Avs were kinda playing tough on the term/money due to their cap crunch. Toews clearly wanted to stay -- and the Avs went up to 7 years to get it done (Friedman previously reported that the Avs were very wary on term). In the case of those younger players signing huge deals, they know they can squeeze their teams since they have the cap space. In the case of the Avs, I think players kinda know they have practically no wiggle room and it's take it or leave it at this point.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

He's a #2 because #1 is Cale Makar. He's a #1 on 25 other teams in the league

No he's not, he's a Brian Rafalski/Brent Seabrook type player. 5v5 analytics gem and PKer. Prime Ryan Ellis was like that too albeit a step below

 

[BKarchitect]

No he's not, he's a Brian Rafalski/Brent Seabrook type player. 5v5 analytics gem and PKer. Prime Ryan Ellis was like that too albeit a step below

Honestly, #1 or #2 is such pedantic argument.

Those arguing he’s the probably the best #2 in the league on a really good team but unproven as a long-term #1 are correct.

Those arguing he’s a top 15-20 defenseman in the league and analytically just as good without Makar as he is with Makar are right.

It’s fine. Rafalski and Seabrook were easily top 15-20 blueliners in the league in their primes. So those kind of comps kind of support both sides.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You think Weegar is as good as Toews?
Hockey might not be the sport for you to watch have you tried Baseball?

Do you live under a rock? Toews is a bit better than Weegar but not by much

Toews JFresh card is posted earlier on this page for comparison. Playing with Makar boosts his stats too, Toews is still very good but he wouldn't put up nearly as good offensive numbers playing with someone as talented as Heiskanen for example

 

[Tob]

Sabres would have paid him $5MX8Yrs five years ago, bozo move by Avs.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Honestly, #1 or #2 is such pedantic argument.

Those arguing he’s the probably the best #2 in the league on a really good team but unproven as a long-term #1 are correct.

Those arguing he’s a top 15-20 defenseman in the league and analytically just as good without Makar as he is with Makar are right.

It’s fine. Rafalski and Seabrook were easily top 15-20 blueliners in the league in their primes. So those kind of comps kind of support both sides.

Im not arguing he's top 15-20. I absolutely agree that's where he is. I used Weegar as an example earlier, Weegar is ~top 15-20 and Rasmus Andersson is ~top 25. But Andersson is a #1, Weegar is an elite #2. Overall Weegar's all around game is better but he's not the #1.

 

[PAZ]

Definitely had a bad playoffs but that doesn’t change his whole body of work and his skill sets.

iirc Isles fans thought the Avs got a good deal but were also pretty adamant he was a solid 2nd pairing defenseman.

I don’t think I saw one Isles fan that believed Toews was or could be a top pairing defenseman.

 

[SI90]

iirc Isles fans thought the Avs got a good deal but were also pretty adamant he was a solid 2nd pairing defenseman.

I don’t think I saw one Isles fan that believed Toews was or could be a top pairing defenseman.

Most knew he was there defensively and had the offensive skills to be considered elite. Remember Trotz system holds guys back stat wide especially defenseman.

 

[landstuhltaylor]

I can't remember any Isles fans that thought of him as being a #1. I think at best he was valued as maybe growing into a high end #2 and even that seemed like it was optimistic.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Toews JFresh card is posted earlier on this page for comparison. Playing with Makar boosts his stats too, Toews is still very good but he wouldn't put up nearly as good offensive numbers playing with someone as talented as Heiskanen for example

Not easily able to compare, but if I recall, he carried the load offensively while Makar was out over the last 2 years. Assuming that's the case, I think your argument is a bit silly.

Furthermore he smokes Weegar in those stats. Rafalski is the right comparison earlier, being saying that since he joined the Avs. Cerebral player that will age gracefully now on a stellar contract. He and Makar will be a force for the next few years until he steps down to anchor the 2nd pairing.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Wow that’s a great contract for Colorado

 

[ref19]

Oof. That's an expensive backend.

 

[AvsFan29]

Oof. That's an expensive backend.

16.5m for Makar/Toews is a steal.

 

[shadow1]

Do you live under a rock? Toews is a bit better than Weegar but not by much
View attachment 752340View attachment 752341View attachment 752345
Toews JFresh card is posted earlier on this page for comparison. Playing with Makar boosts his stats too, Toews is still very good but he wouldn't put up nearly as good offensive numbers playing with someone as talented as Heiskanen for example

Those player cards are out of date, do you have more up-to-date cards? I am not subscribed to Evolving Hockey, but I know Weegar had a down season offensively and saw his ice time decrease by over 2 minutes between 2021-2022 and 2022-2023.

I would be curious to see how much the most recent seasons by these two sways the pendulum. I remember the Avalanche were rumored to be interested in MacKenzie Weegar the same off-season they acquired Devon Toews. Though, as I recall it, those rumors didn't appear until after the Toews trade had already occurred. But because Colorado did not add another defenseman that off-season, I assume it was an either/or situation.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Colorado getting every top player as a steal.

Not even 8 years for that low AVV

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Oof. That's an expensive backend.

There's not team in the league that wouldn't want this Toews or the Makar contract.

 

[JoeSakic13]

Oof. That's an expensive backend.

I’d rather pay Toews 7.25 to play for us than Suter 7.3 to not play for us.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

View attachment 752257
Honestly have no clue where the "product of Makar" narrative I often see comes from.

It's Edmonton fans that are mad that nobody buys drais production in a vacuum...

 

[Go Wings]

Do you live under a rock? Toews is a bit better than Weegar but not by much
View attachment 752340View attachment 752341View attachment 752345
Toews JFresh card is posted earlier on this page for comparison. Playing with Makar boosts his stats too, Toews is still very good but he wouldn't put up nearly as good offensive numbers playing with someone as talented as Heiskanen for example

Toews is a lot better than Weegar especially in the playoffs try watching some games instead of relying just on stats.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Not easily able to compare, but if I recall, he carried the load offensively while Makar was out over the last 2 years. Assuming that's the case, I think your argument is a bit silly.

Furthermore he smokes Weegar in those stats. Rafalski is the right comparison earlier, being saying that since he joined the Avs. Cerebral player that will age gracefully now on a stellar contract. He and Makar will be a force for the next few years until he steps down to anchor the 2nd pairing.

Can the same not be said about Weegar when Ekblad was out? He was excellent. Comparing Weegar and Toews is not an insult to Toews. Both are top 20 defensemen in the entire league.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

That's probably fair. I got no problem with saying he's capable of being a #1D on some other NHL teams. There's some bad bluelines in this league he would instantly make a lot better. The statement that he'd be the best defenseman on 90% of NHL teams is what I was originally taking issue with. That's just plainly false.







Man you guys are touchy. Malkin and Draisaitl each have many many seasons of 1C production, Hart and Art Ross trophies. Toews has one season where he was top 10 in D scoring, coincidentally when his D partner won the Norris, and another where he's tied for 19th with Justin Faulk.

It's different because centers typically play on different lines. Toews is plenty good in his own right, but you can't ignore the boost he gets playing with Makar's talent.

False. Drai gets his points by the pp, sliding over to wing when mcd sneaks on the ice or feasting on 3/4 d men... ainec

 

[Bandit]

Seems like a hell of a lot of money but most people seem happy with it so…

All I know is I picked the wrong career.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Toews is a lot better than Weegar especially in the playoffs try watching some games instead of relying just on stats.

I do watch games and Weegar was far from bad in the playoffs. Everyone points to a single play and assume that he was like that for all 10 games. He's human, he made a single mistake