Confirmed Signing with Link: [COL] D Devon Toews signs extension with the Avalanche (7 years, $7.25M AAV)

[Ledge And Dairy]

Haha I know you’re a Flames homer, but Toews is much better than Andersson and Weegar!

He's better but not much better than Weegar. Both are better than Andersson. Ive had this viewpoint long before that Tkachuk trade was even in the workings, he was a 45 point defenseman who's elite defensively.

Slavin is better than Toews though

Not on Canucks, we have Hughes who is a top 5 to 10 dman

Makar
Fox
Heiskenan
Hedman
Hughes
McAvoy
Josi
Dahlin
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Seider
Pesce

I take those 12 plus some others over Toews. So he would not be number 1 on 20 teams. Maybe 15 or less

Pesce? You might be the only person who considers him a top 30 defenseman. Seider will probably be vetter in a few years but not yet

 

[John Mandalorian]

He's better but not much better than Weegar. Both are better than Andersson. Ive had this viewpoint long before that Tkachuk trade was even in the workings, he was a 45 point defenseman who's elite defensively.

Slavin is better than Toews though


Pesce? You might be the only person who considers him a top 30 defenseman. Seider will probably be vetter in a few years but not yet

Try harder. LOL.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Toews would be a #1 on a lot of teams including the Flames

Complete nonsense. Which is it is Makar a generational dman and top 3 player in the league? If so then his linemates need to be talked about in the same way as McDavid's are in that their results needs that in consideration.

So many completely average players have had their careers made by having chemistry with a superstar. They get them paid somewhere in UFA and they suck and can never be that player. It's a well known thing.

If I remember right last season, they started those two apart and Toews was really struggling. So much so Avs fans were comfortable saying as much on main board threads and some even were saying "thank god we are not signing him to his next deal he will be overpaid". In the end, he was moved back and suddenly is amazing again.

So no I am not saying Toews is a complete product of Makar, he is a good player. I am saying however he is probably a pretty average top 4 dman who has chemistry with a generational talent and is made to look much better than he is. TO say he is a legit #1 dman and would be on a bunch of teams is complete homerism.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Try harder. LOL.

Try harder at what?

 

[John Mandalorian]

Complete nonsense. Which is it is Makar a generational dman and top 3 player in the league? If so then his linemates need to be talked about in the same way as McDavid's are in that their results needs that in consideration.

So many completely average players have had their careers made by having chemistry with a superstar. They get them paid somewhere in UFA and they suck and can never be that player. It's a well known thing.

If I remember right last season, they started those two apart and Toews was really struggling. So much so Avs fans were comfortable saying as much on main board threads and some even were saying "thank god we are not signing him to his next deal he will be overpaid". In the end, he was moved back and suddenly is amazing again.

So no I am not saying Toews is a complete product of Makar, he is a good player. I am saying however he is probably a pretty average top 4 dman who has chemistry with a generational talent and is made to look much better than he is. TO say he is a legit #1 dman and would be on a bunch of teams is complete homerism.

1. In 2022, the Avs had a worse record when Toews was out of the line up than anyone else.

2. Last year, with Byram and Manson missing so many games, if Toews was struggling, it was most likely tied to overusage. Under those circumstances, sure, being with Makar is going to make for lighter lifting.


It’s also worth noting, the Avs were still winning games toward the end when Makar was out.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Try harder at what?

Really?! OK, keep digging then.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Really?! OK, keep digging then.

I called Toews the modern day Rafalski earlier. I really don't know what you are getting at here. He's a top 15-20 defenseman in the league.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Complete nonsense. Which is it is Makar a generational dman and top 3 player in the league? If so then his linemates need to be talked about in the same way as McDavid's are in that their results needs that in consideration.

So many completely average players have had their careers made by having chemistry with a superstar. They get them paid somewhere in UFA and they suck and can never be that player. It's a well known thing.

If I remember right last season, they started those two apart and Toews was really struggling. So much so Avs fans were comfortable saying as much on main board threads and some even were saying "thank god we are not signing him to his next deal he will be overpaid". In the end, he was moved back and suddenly is amazing again.

So no I am not saying Toews is a complete product of Makar, he is a good player. I am saying however he is probably a pretty average top 4 dman who has chemistry with a generational talent and is made to look much better than he is. TO say he is a legit #1 dman and would be on a bunch of teams is complete homerism.

Toews is better than Reilly and gets paid less.

 

[Muffin]

Ask JFresh


You genuinely think Toews pushes Andersson of the 1st powerplay unit? Again Weegar is a better overall defenseman than Andersson because he is more well rounded, but Andersson is still the #1.

You mean Andersson who has a career high of 50 points? Toews has produced more than him without PP1 time because Makar is there.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You mean Andersson who has a career high of 50 points? Toews has produced more than him without PP1 time because Makar is there.

Yes I mean that Andersson. Toews would still not be on PP1 in Calgary

 

[HockeyVirus]

1. In 2022, the Avs had a worse record when Toews was out of the line up than anyone else.

2. Last year, with Byram and Manson missing so many games, if Toews was struggling, it was most likely tied to overusage. Under those circumstances, sure, being with Makar is going to make for lighter lifting.


It’s also worth noting, the Avs were still winning games toward the end when Makar was out.

1. Irrelevant stat. Leafs have a better record without Matthews than with him. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

2. What makes it overusage instead of just not being good enough on his own? His TOI is almost identical last 4 seasons.

Toews is better than Reilly and gets paid less.

Whatever you say.

 

[John Mandalorian]

1. Irrelevant stat. Leafs have a better record without Matthews than with him. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

2. What makes it overusage instead of just not being good enough on his own? His TOI is almost identical last 4 seasons.



Whatever you say.

Rebuttals that a child would use while playing in a sandbox is an interesting way to go.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Rebuttals that a child would use while playing in a sandbox is an interesting way to go.

Responding to my post which was essentially calling your points conjecture is an interesting way to go.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Responding to my post which was essentially calling your points conjecture is an interesting way to go.

“If I remember right” is hard fact?

 

[KrisLetAngry]

While playing with Makar 100% helps him, he actually has looked equally as good without him for big stretches.

Last season in the 22 games without Makar he held is own without issue. The Avs system also mix and matches D men a ton, so they don’t exclusively play every minute together.

That said, I don’t think Toews is a world beater on defense, but he is not getting paid like one. He is getting paid like a great #2 d man.

View attachment 752602

Yep he does fine alone. Definitely a high end #2 low end #1.

Really could have gotten 9x7 in the open market.

He legit took a discount.

 

[Alienblood]

Complete nonsense. Which is it is Makar a generational dman and top 3 player in the league? If so then his linemates need to be talked about in the same way as McDavid's are in that their results needs that in consideration.

So many completely average players have had their careers made by having chemistry with a superstar. They get them paid somewhere in UFA and they suck and can never be that player. It's a well known thing.

If I remember right last season, they started those two apart and Toews was really struggling. So much so Avs fans were comfortable saying as much on main board threads and some even were saying "thank god we are not signing him to his next deal he will be overpaid". In the end, he was moved back and suddenly is amazing again.

So no I am not saying Toews is a complete product of Makar, he is a good player. I am saying however he is probably a pretty average top 4 dman who has chemistry with a generational talent and is made to look much better than he is. TO say he is a legit #1 dman and would be on a bunch of teams is complete homerism.

you should see the Avs record with Makar out of the lineup and with Toews out.

It is far better with Makar out than Toews

 

[platotld]

Complete nonsense. Which is it is Makar a generational dman and top 3 player in the league? If so then his linemates need to be talked about in the same way as McDavid's are in that their results needs that in consideration.

So many completely average players have had their careers made by having chemistry with a superstar. They get them paid somewhere in UFA and they suck and can never be that player. It's a well known thing.

This is so wrong, look at Toews stats when Makar is not on the ice, now look at Makar's stats when Toews in not on the ice. I get it, you are a huge forum warrior and must know a lot of stats, but you do not because you speak (err type) nonsense and act like you know.

NHL Top Players: Top 20 Defensemen | NHL.com

NHL Network reveals best of current crop

www.nhl.com

8. Devon Toews, Colorado Avalanche
Toews may not receive as much attention as his defense partner, Cale Makar, but he had 57 points (13 goals, 44 assists) in 66 games, and has increased his goals and points total each of the past three seasons. Toews' 158 shots on goal, 12 power-play points and three game-winning goals also were NHL career highs. The 28-year-old led NHL defensemen with a plus-52 rating and his average ice time per game of 25:22 was second on the Avalanche behind Makar (25:40). Toews had 15 points (five goals, 10 assists) in 20 playoff games to help the Avalanche win the Cup last season.
"I still think he's underrated as a defenseman," Konroyd said. "He really makes that team. And yeah, Cale Makar, No. 1. But those two guys playing together, that's unfair. Those are two of the best defensemen in the entire NHL. Great skater, excellent stick, he can play the power play, he's a great penalty killer, he's a minute-muncher out there. … Yeah, he's on a good team, but sometimes it's tough to play on a high-octane offensive team because you've got to be responsible defensively, and that's exactly what Devon Toews does."

 

[lionsDen]

Since Toews' arrival in Denver, he ranks second among all defensemen league-wide in goals above replacement (53.2) and wins above replacement (9.3), trailing only Makar in both metrics, per Evolving Hockey.

Devon Toews: No question Avalanche boast league's best defense

www.thescore.com

A top ten Norris finalist

5 Longshots for the 2022-23 Norris Trophy - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

It's hard to imagine anyone supplanting Cale Makar for the 2022-23 Norris Trophy, but here are some longshots who could do it!

thehockeywriters.com

Weager? I don’t get the comoarison
A dark horse or the Norris this year,

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

Toews is taking a discount and he is a perfect fit for the Avs.

In many ways he elevated Makar and that defenseman duo play all situations, they were very successful being matched up against MacDavid & Draisatl (who was hurting) in a playoff series, as an example.

However… Makars former partner Ryan Graves led the entire league in +/- in 19/20, so magic happens when you play with Makar.

 

[slippingsloth]

16.5m for Makar/Toews is a steal.

Thats a pretty good long term. I think most teams would do that in…. A heart beat

 

[Hasbro]

 

[jackjohnson]

Haters gonna hate

If you think he would be ahead of Hughes on Canucks you must be very delusional lol. Take out Makar, Byram, Girard and see how Toews does in a number 1 role. He is very overrated on these boards imo. Good D but not sure if the hype is coming from Avs fans trying to brainwash other teams fans by saying he would be number 1D in 20 NHL teams lol.

 

[Coffee]

If you think he would be ahead of Hughes on Canucks you must be very delusional lol. Take out Makar, Byram, Girard and see how Toews does in a number 1 role. He is very overrated on these boards imo. Good D but not sure if the hype is coming from Avs fans trying to brainwash other teams fans by saying he would be number 1D in 20 NHL teams lol.

Hey I’m aware Quinn Hughes is in the top tier of defenders, stop making me look like a fool! I never made such a claim to say Toews is better.

I’m just pointing out anytime a Avs defender is being praised, you will respond right away downplaying them.

 

[jackjohnson]

Complete nonsense. Which is it is Makar a generational dman and top 3 player in the league? If so then his linemates need to be talked about in the same way as McDavid's are in that their results needs that in consideration.

So many completely average players have had their careers made by having chemistry with a superstar. They get them paid somewhere in UFA and they suck and can never be that player. It's a well known thing.

If I remember right last season, they started those two apart and Toews was really struggling. So much so Avs fans were comfortable saying as much on main board threads and some even were saying "thank god we are not signing him to his next deal he will be overpaid". In the end, he was moved back and suddenly is amazing again.

So no I am not saying Toews is a complete product of Makar, he is a good player. I am saying however he is probably a pretty average top 4 dman who has chemistry with a generational talent and is made to look much better than he is. TO say he is a legit #1 dman and would be on a bunch of teams is complete homerism.

AVS fans love to hype the heck out of their players where you think their 6th D is Bobby Orr and their 4th liner is Gretzky. I still laugh out loud on how much they hyped Newhook when he was a 3rd line C and when Kadri left he looked like crap. Take out Makar, Byram and Girard and you will see Toews not being as good. I wouldn't trade Hughes for 2 Toews lol

 

[jackjohnson]

Hey I’m aware Quinn Hughes is in the top tier of defenders, stop making me look like a fool! I never made such a claim to say Toews is better.

I’m just pointing out anytime a Avs defender is being praised, you will respond right away downplaying them.

That's because you guys have such lofty expectations of your dmen. Tell your comrades to retract the statement where they said Toews would be number 1 D in 20 or more NHL teams because that's a cap and a half lol. Once these ridiculous statements from Avs fans stop then I will also stop responding right away.

Toews is taking a discount and he is a perfect fit for the Avs.

In many ways he elevated Makar and that defenseman duo play all situations, they were very successful being matched up against MacDavid & Draisatl (who was hurting) in a playoff series, as an example.

However… Makars former partner Ryan Graves led the entire league in +/- in 19/20, so magic happens when you play with Makar.

He did not elevate Makars play buddy. That's like saying Hyman elevates McDavids play. No he doesn't, Toews benefits more from playing with Makar.