Confirmed with Link: Coach Pete DeBoer Is Fired

[Tretyak 20]

My faith in Lou Lam's sanity is beginning to be restored.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

This is very excellent, intelligent, and insightful factual evidence to support your point. Thanks for that.

Lou is not at fault for the major decline of important players - yes, he's partially at fault for not foreseeing it earlier.

Lou is not at fault for the amount of injuries this team has had and the man games lost - yes, he's partially at fault for not building enough depth to make up for it.

Lou is not at fault for the lack of progress of the youthful players - yes, he's partially at fault for not creating a better environment earlier.

Lou is not at fault for the major loss of all talent this roster had a few years ago - yes, he's partially at fault for the how and why some of them left but not at all.

Pete DeBoer IS unequivocally at fault for poor decision making in terms of his players on the ice, their positions, the minutes they play, the situations they play those minutes in, and the systems in place on the ice, as well as a lack of adaptation to a changing game and roster.

Which of those is easier to fix in the short term? The things PDB is directly responsible for, not the things that Lou is responsible for correcting.

Your turn.

A lot of partially at faults add up to a lot of faults, though your points well taken and well said. This is a decade long decline of partial faults. The lineup is really the laughing stock of the whole league.

The Devs are on their way to being the Oilers of the East.

 

[OmNomNom]

A lot of partially at faults add up to a lot of faults, though your points well taken and well said. This is a decade long decline of partial faults. The lineup is really the laughing stock of the whole league.

The Devs are on their way to being the Oilers of the East.

i seriously hope that's the case this year for the sake of the draft. whoever we get, at best, he has an adjustment period of mediocrity, and then takes off and is quite good, but not enough, and this team finishes bottom 5

 

[Cowbell232]

What is the big picture objectively? Isn't it to win?

Yes, the object is to win, but looking at things objectively is a completely different thing...

Lou deserves to be fired for being accountable for the decay of the overall roster and poor results. He's said it himself that's how he judges his teams, his players, his coaches. And don't discount the fact that he's getting old.

He's ultimately responsible for the team, but more so he's responsible for not foreseeing what happened. He couldn't predict the overall man games lost to injuries, the lack of progress of certain prospects, or the rapid decline of some veterans. Our hindsight is 20/20, some of it seems predictable, and many here made predictions (some are right, some are horribly wrong).

The drafting has only recently improved and only in one area (and not dramatically either might I add, a few D prospects here or there but let's not act like we have Bobby Orr and Paul Coffey back there even now).

Drafting, no matter what the team doing it, is a very inexact art. Look at teams like the Oilers that draft very high with nothing to show for it, and look at teams like Detroit that managed to stay relevant for a very long time with lower drafting. The drafting is only partially on Lou - if you want to place proper blame it's better to say Lou's nepotism to scouts is a bigger problem then Lou's job itself.

Our forwards situation has become the laughingstock of the league and most of our prospects are either far away or floundering currently in the "A". We have a roster that cannot play to the style the NHL is played at nor compete to how the points system is structured (hello a gazilliion shootout losses in a row!)

That's half on Lou, and half completely unpredictable and unforeseen. The shootout losses and some other little items, in my opinion, are a indictment of PDB and not Lou.

Where do we hold a GM accountable? When? I'm all ears. All ears. Send me a PM with a nice eloquent reasoning if you don't want to go into it in this thread.

We don't. Plain and simple. There's no way for us, outside fans, to know when he's not making sound decisions anymore given the tools he has. A lot of what happened in the last 3-5 years has largely been attributed directly or as a direct result of a JVB decision. Lou's best years as GM were without any ownership intervention and that's undeniably true.

We were never going to be able to keep both players and Lou was GM over this whole period when players were acquired, kept, then lost. Both are facts (not assigning blame here just stating facts).

The end.

Those aren't facts. Both players left for different reasons - that's a fact. Speculating that we couldn't keep both is just that, speculation.

 

[Traitor Zach]

This is very excellent, intelligent, and insightful factual evidence to support your point. Thanks for that.

Lou is not at fault for the major decline of important players - yes, he's partially at fault for not foreseeing it earlier.

Lou is not at fault for the amount of injuries this team has had and the man games lost - yes, he's partially at fault for not building enough depth to make up for it.

Lou is not at fault for the lack of progress of the youthful players - yes, he's partially at fault for not creating a better environment earlier.

Lou is not at fault for the major loss of all talent this roster had a few years ago - yes, he's partially at fault for the how and why some of them left but not at all.

Pete DeBoer IS unequivocally at fault for poor decision making in terms of his players on the ice, their positions, the minutes they play, the situations they play those minutes in, and the systems in place on the ice, as well as a lack of adaptation to a changing game and roster.

Which of those is easier to fix in the short term? The things PDB is directly responsible for, not the things that Lou is responsible for correcting.

Your turn.

There is no short-term fix! That's the whole crux of the issue and one that Lou gambled and lost on these last few years.

So why should we trust he will be the one to lead what is going to be probably at least a 3 year overhaul/rebuild process. We aren't close at all to being a contender now or next year and probably not in 2016-2017. And the areas that atypically lead the way in such a process are not exactly awe-inspiring based on their recent history.

I could also just as easily say Deboer was only "partially" to blame since he can only ice the players he is given. One can also suspect that Lou is fine with how the young players were being used/developed since he kept the coach for almost 4 seasons now.

I don't care for Deboer, but using him as some sacrifical lamb here and not putting Lou on the spot moving forward is really weak. Really weak sauce here.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

If Oates, prepare for two more years of this.

 

[Marv4Life]

Lou is not at fault for the major loss of all talent this roster had a few years ago

Name me a GM who lets their top 2-3 players walk to free agency/overseas in a short time frame without any good replacements. Those "partial faults" you speak of all add up.

On topic, Torts should be brought in for the postgame pressers alone.

 

[Traitor Zach]

Those aren't facts. Both players left for different reasons - that's a fact. Speculating that we couldn't keep both is just that, speculation.

We did not have the up-front money for both players and ownership was meddling I admit in how it was being handled. Jim can back me up on this.

 

[Blender]

Pretty much as those of us who have been objective and rational about Pete have been saying;

Ken Daneyko @KenDaneykoMSG
@DevilsInsiders wins regardless of who is in lineup, but I think Pete is a good coach!

Ken Daneyko @KenDaneykoMSG
@DevilsInsiders Doesn't mean I agree with how he handled everything, but very smart guy!

I agree that tactically he was a good coach, but his decision making often seemed to be lacking. Still, I'm not sure how much better he could have been doing with this roster results wise, but I do want someone else in here who will have more of a focus on developing our young guys.

 

[Wingman77]

We did not have the up-front money for both players and ownership was meddling I admit in how it was being handled. Jim can back me up on this.

Here's the problem right here, the majority of people here keep looking back.

You get nowhere by doing so and you see the same boring circular discussions.

We don't have a head coach and we have a set of old, unhealthy, and lack of skill players, that's what we should be worried about, not about what happened and what can't be changed.

Who the **** cares? Seriously.

 

[Traitor Zach]

I agree that tactically he was a good coach, but his decision making often seemed to be lacking. Still, I'm not sure how much better he could have been doing with this roster results wise, but I do want someone else in here who will have more of a focus on developing our young guys.

Oates is 100 percent not the guy you want then.

 

[Tretyak 20]

I suppose this will make Jagr, Zubrus, Clowe and Ryder fast skaters and make Elias 3 years younger and give experience to our defense and make Cammalleri healthy for the rest of the season?

Seems like a plan?

The plan should be to sign a coach that actually tries to develop kids, then draft some forwards and hopefully be competitive again in 3-5 years.

 

[Blender]

Oates is 100 percent not the guy you want then.

I didn't really like him as an assistant here, I definitely don't want him as the head coach.

 

[Traitor Zach]

Here's the problem right here, the majority of people here keep looking back.

You get nowhere by doing so and you see the same boring circular discussions.

We don't have a head coach and we have a set of old, unhealthy, and lack of skill players, that's what we should be worried about, not about what happened and what can't be changed. It's a waste of time.

No disagreement here on that. My whole focus is towards the future, but in making decisions on how best to proceed. I'm arguing with Cowbell it's reasonable and justifiable to say we need someone other than Lou in dealing with these issues.

 

[liquid1988]

All I have to say about this is...

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

No disagreement here on that. My whole focus is towards the future, but in making decisions on how best to proceed. I'm arguing with Cowbell it's reasonable and justifiable to say we need someone other than Lou in dealing with these issues.

Exactly.

Lou is no longer capable, based on a decade of results, of dealing with these issues.

 

[Bad Goalie]

C'monnnnn Chico interim!

That move might just insure McEichel at draft time.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Just let Barr coach it out for the last couple months. Problem is I'm not sure how confident I am in Lou to do another coaching search since Lou shares a ton of the blame for why we are where we are. They absolutely cannot bungle the next hire.

 

[njdevils6]

isn't oates the best choice if he works out , great but if he fails, Mcdavid might happen

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Just let Barr coach it out for the last couple months. Problem is I'm not sure how confident I am in Lou to do another coaching search since Lou shares a ton of the blame for why we are where we are. They absolutely cannot bungle the next hire.

Based on Lou's history, he will bungle it.

I am confident that I am not confident in Lou's ability to much of anything right.

 

[Cowbell232]

A lot of partially at faults add up to a lot of faults, though your points well taken and well said. This is a decade long decline of partial faults. The lineup is really the laughing stock of the whole league.

The Devs are on their way to being the Oilers of the East.

Thank for the first part. You're completely wrong about the second part. And I still don't see any points made about why Lou should go.

There is no short-term fix! That's the whole crux of the issue and one that Lou gambled and lost on these last few years.

So why should we trust he will be the one to lead what is going to be probably at least a 3 year overhaul/rebuild process. We aren't close at all to being a contender now or next year and probably not in 2016-2017. And the areas that atypically lead the way in such a process are not exactly awe-inspiring based on their recent history.

I could also just as easily say Deboer was only "partially" to blame since he can only ice the players he is given. One can also suspect that Lou is fine with how the young players were being used/developed since he kept the coach for almost 4 seasons now.

I don't care for Deboer, but using him as some sacrifical lamb here and not putting Lou on the spot moving forward is really weak. Really weak sauce here.

There is no real short term fix - I will agree 1000% with you on that. But PDB was not part of the solution moving forward either, that's obvious.

I also agree that we aren't close to contenders, but I think we're SIGNIFICANTLY better than our record shows. Advanced metrics from last year shows that as well, even though we regressed big time this year. I think that's part of Lou's plan as well. He has to be watching that.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Very excited. I'm really curious to see who the new coach will be, whether it's an interim or if Lou has something up his sleeve.

 

[RNCDevil]

This is a great controlled experiment. If PDB is the disaster every makes him out to be then, assuming no change in personnel, we should see a major turnaround in the quality of play.

 

[Cowbell232]

Name me a GM who lets their top 2-3 players walk to free agency/overseas in a short time frame without any good replacements. Those "partial faults" you speak of all add up.

On topic, Torts should be brought in for the postgame pressers alone.

There are no replacements to be had for the caliber players we lost. The partial faults add up, but they are not enough to justify (to me, and apparently current ownership) his firing.

 

[JimEIV]

This is a great controlled experiment. If PDB is the disaster every makes him out to be then, assuming no change in personnel, we should see a major turnaround in the quality of play.

100% of the time after a coach is fired there is a pick up in play...it always happens.