Management Coach DJ Smith - Part 2

[Ice-Tray]

Sure, of course there is some hyperbole and absurd claims to varying degrees, but you can't expect people not to put forth their personal opinons on a message board about their sports team, biased and rational or not. And I think that's a little ranty in itself. Brady and Co. may love him and he may be a good coach at the NHL level, but that doesn't mean he'll necessarily have success here, or that someone else couldn't potentially have more. I see what you're saying, but I think it gets muddied in as if wanting a different coach isn't a respectable position from an unbiased view of the team.

I can agree with much of this.

Anyways, I like hearing positive stuff about the team from players. Would be nice to be able to bring Boro into the fold at some point.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I can agree with much of this.

Anyways, I like hearing positive stuff about the team from players. Would be nice to be able to bring Boro into the fold at some point.

Yes, Boro seems like a good fit at some point.

 

[Cosmix]

Yes, Boro seems like a good fit at some point.

Player development?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Player development?

Face punching and toothless grins

 

[Cosmix]

Face punching and toothless grins

That would be part of it!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

That would be part of it!

Maybe he can also teach them how not to be manipulated by their bat shit insane owner and talked into the most embarrassing "interview" in the history of the team.

 

[LevelingSolo]

There are just 6 head coaches in this League that have held positions for as long or longer then DJ

Jon Cooper- Stanley Cup champion
Mike Sullivan- Stanley Cup champion
Jared Bednar- Stanley Cup champion
Rob Brindamour- .661 winning percentage, jack adams, and constant playoff contender
Craig Berube- Stanley Cup champion
Todd Mclellan- helped mold a rebuilding team into a playoff team

Just baffling to me that DJ Smith is about to enter his 5th season with nothing to show for it.

Rebuild or not its incredible how he has kept his job this long, any other organization would have parted ways

 

[aragorn]

Face punching and toothless grins

Neil & Borocop could be tag team partners, Toothless Grin & BoroCop, he could borrow the Big Boss Man's uniform, he doesn't seem to be using it anymore. Both dressed as cops would work.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

remember we got chychrun and the team played like the worst stretch of hockey of the season after

 

[Micklebot]

remember we got chychrun and the team played like the worst stretch of hockey of the season after

We went 3-1 immediately after acquiring him. We we brutal for the western Canada trip though.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

There are just 6 head coaches in this League that have held positions for as long or longer then DJ

Jon Cooper- Stanley Cup champion
Mike Sullivan- Stanley Cup champion
Jared Bednar- Stanley Cup champion
Rob Brindamour- .661 winning percentage, jack adams, and constant playoff contender
Craig Berube- Stanley Cup champion
Todd Mclellan- helped mold a rebuilding team into a playoff team

Just baffling to me that DJ Smith is about to enter his 5th season with nothing to show for it.

Rebuild or not its incredible how he has kept his job this long, any other organization would have parted ways

DJ was in a unique position that he was hired specifically for being the coach who was going to be there at the start of a scorched earth rebuild to develop the upcoming talent into NHL stars. Not many coaches are in that position (even LA with McLellan kept key pieces in Kopitar and Doughty, whereas Ottawa sold off everyone), so I'm not surprised not many coaches have been tenured longer.

And it's bizarre to say he has nothing to show for it. He was brought in to develop the young players. He has Stützle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Chabot, and Sanderson to show for it. He's done a very good job handling the development of those players. It's only this past season that he had a different mission, which was to get the team playing meaningful games at the end of the season, and he also accomplished that.

I don't have a problem if people think this team would be better off with another coach moving forward, but these types of arguments are so completely disingenuous it's hard not to think that people aren't approaching these discussions with rationality and logic.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

DJ was in a unique position that he was hired specifically for being the coach who was going to be there at the start of a scorched earth rebuild to develop the upcoming talent into NHL stars. Not many coaches are in that position (even LA with McLellan kept key pieces in Kopitar and Doughty, whereas Ottawa sold off everyone), so I'm not surprised not many coaches have been tenured longer.

And it's bizarre to say he has nothing to show for it. He was brought in to develop the young players. He has Stützle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Chabot, and Sanderson to show for it. He's done a very good job handling the development of those players. It's only this past season that he had a different mission, which was to get the team playing meaningful games at the end of the season, and he also accomplished that.

I don't have a problem if people think this team would be better off with another coach moving forward, but these types of arguments are so completely disingenuous it's hard not to think that people aren't approaching these discussions with rationality and logic.

I'll give you thachuk.
Batherson is getting worse
Chabot is nights and day different from the beginning of DJs tenure till now. He's worse than he was before
Norris in his first season in the NHL scored 17 goals in 56 games, DJ didn't teach him how to do that in his first year
Stutzle is a franchise C. He can get coached by anyone and still be good
Debrincat was brought into do one thing, we f***ing dont give him the same set up the has allowed to put up those goals.
Our shit players like Zaitsev had to pried away from DJs cold dead hands while Brann needed the development

This guy stinks.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I'll give you thachuk.
Batherson is getting worse
Chabot is nights and day different from the beginning of DJs tenure till now. He's worse than he was before
Norris in his first season in the NHL scored 17 goals in 56 games, DJ didn't teach him how to do that in his first year
Stutzle is a franchise C. He can get coached by anyone and still be good
Debrincat was brought into do one thing, we f***ing dont give him the same set up the has allowed to put up those goals.
Our shit players like Zaitsev had to pried away from DJs cold dead hands while Brann needed the development

This guy stinks.

Batherson was coming off a major injury, the first of his career, and it was an injury that they said could take 10 months before he started feeling 100% again. I'm lenient on him because of this after an admittedly disappointing season. You should be too.

Chabot has had his responsibility increased with every season. We need to see how he will look with much more support around him next season. There's no denying he's consistently been our best defender since DJ took over, whether that's due to a lack of competition or not, dmen with higher draft pedigree than Chabot have busted at the NHL. Chabot has not.

I think it's ridiculous to not give any credit to DJ for developing Norris and Stützle, completely irrational and clearly the sign of someone with a huge bias. Jon Cooper specifically mentioned how well DJ did developing Stützle in the NHL, and I'm sure he knows a bit more about player development than you or I.

DJ didn't cause DeBrincat to miss about 20 open nets this year. It's on the players to finish their chances, especially an established goal scorer like DeBrincat.

Brannstrom looks better than ever and DJ has routinely played him up in the lineup when players go down with injuries. He clearly trusts Brannstrom (I really don't care how you respond to this, there were some games where Brannstrom led or was at least 2nd in TOI among dmen. That doesn't happen to young defensemen if the coach doesn't trust them) and elected for a slow burn approach to his development, that seems to be paying off. Not sure what the complaint is here.

You can have your whipping boy, but at least attempt to give credit where credit is due. It's actually a poor debate tactic to ignore the legitimate pros of something you're not in favor for. Instead you should be making the argument that despite DJ's success with player development, Ottawa is now at the stage where they need to transition into being a playoff team, and that requires a different skillset that DJ might not possess. That at least would be somewhat of a convincing argument, rather than trying to argue he actually has not done a good job at player development.

 

[Samsquanch]

I'll give you thachuk.
Batherson is getting worse
Chabot is nights and day different from the beginning of DJs tenure till now. He's worse than he was before
Norris in his first season in the NHL scored 17 goals in 56 games, DJ didn't teach him how to do that in his first year
Stutzle is a franchise C. He can get coached by anyone and still be good
Debrincat was brought into do one thing, we f***ing dont give him the same set up the has allowed to put up those goals.
Our shit players like Zaitsev had to pried away from DJs cold dead hands while Brann needed the development

This guy stinks.

I promise you that whoever the next coach is, that person will be immensely grateful towards DJ Smith. Because he taught his players how to work. All of the rest is easily teachable stuff like positioning and systems under the right staff. Effort level and intensity is not though, and especially with young offensively minded talents who can tune you out and/or fail to rise to the challenge if pushed the wrong way.

You can disregard him and what he did all you want, but if you want to see what happens when the kids are given the keys to the franchise before they learn that important lesson. Then look no further than what's happening in Toronto with the "core four".

All of those players will likely never win together, and its not because they aren't fundamentally sound players either. They are elite players. It's because when they did get pushed hard and were asked for more effort, the coach was fired. Rightfully or wrongfully. But they became bigger than the team, and were never questioned for their effort levels ever again.

It's impossible to win it all if your best players aren't your most intense and competitive players. You just dont see a team of super skilled floaters win, ever. It's never happened in the cap era.

 

[bicboi64]

Chabot has had his responsibility increased with every season. We need to see how he will look with much more support around him next season. There's no denying he's consistently been our best defender since DJ took over, whether that's due to a lack of competition or not, dmen with higher draft pedigree than Chabot have busted at the NHL. Chabot has not.

DJ didn't cause DeBrincat to miss about 20 open nets this year. It's on the players to finish their chances, especially an established goal scorer like DeBrincat.

Brannstrom looks better than ever and DJ has routinely played him up in the lineup when players go down with injuries. He clearly trusts Brannstrom (I really don't care how you respond to this, there were some games where Brannstrom led or was at least 2nd in TOI among dmen. That doesn't happen to young defensemen if the coach doesn't trust them) and elected for a slow burn approach to his development, that seems to be paying off. Not sure what the complaint is here.

Chabot's best season was his 2017-18 year when he filled Karlsson's shoes offensively and ate minutes. He's never been as good as that before and that's coincided with DJ taking over and playing him as a top minute guy in the league despite him not being good enough to play 25+ minutes every night. When DJ took over, after Chabot, our blueline was Hainsey, DeMelo, Zaitsev, Reilly and Borocop. Chabot is a talented guy, but he's been our best defender because until last season, our whole blueline has been awful.

DJ also didn't play Cat with Stu. Tkachuk has proven chemistry with Batherson, yet DJ rode one line and the PP the whole year.

Brannstrom playing top 4 minutes after we get injuries in our top 4 isn't DJ trusting him, its literally using him as a 3rd pairing guy naturally bumping him up. Brannstrom should've been playing in the top 4 since day 1. Nick Holden had more ice time than him per game.

I promise you that whoever the next coach is, that person will be immensely grateful towards DJ Smith. Because he taught his players how to work. All of the rest is easily teachable stuff like positioning and systems. Effort level and intensity is not though, and especially with young offensively minded talents.

You can disregard him and what he did all you want, but if you want to see what happens when the kids are given the keys to the franchise before they learn that important lesson. Then look no further than what's happening in Toronto with the "core four".

Our players work? Our captain doesn't backcheck, our #1 defender has regressed, and we are a one line team. Our skaters are out there doing cardio, which I guess is work, but not exactly impressive.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Chabot's best season was his 2017-18 year when he filled Karlsson's shoes offensively and ate minutes. He's never been as good as that before and that's coincided with DJ taking over and playing him as a top minute guy in the league despite him not being good enough to play 25+ minutes every night. When DJ took over, after Chabot, our blueline was Hainsey, DeMelo, Zaitsev, Reilly and Borocop. Chabot is a talented guy, but he's been our best defender because until last season, our whole blueline has been awful.

Lol are you sure losing a Norris caliber defenseman in Karlsson had nothing to do with that? Good god...

Is DJ to blame for the blueline being abysmal? Terrible defense or not, you're talking as if Chabot isn't a great defenseman in this league. Like I said before, plenty of other defensemen in his shoes have turned into busts, dmen with higher draft pedigrees even.

DJ also didn't play Cat with Stu. Tkachuk has proven chemistry with Batherson, yet DJ rode one line and the PP the whole year.

Tkachuk with Stützle was about maximizing Stützle, not maximizing Brady. Stützle is the offensive catalyst on this team, and he's easily the player that gives us the best chance to win every night. You put your best player in the best position to succeed, that's coaching 101, and every other coach in the NHL would've had Tkachuk with Stützle this year as well.

Brannstrom playing top 4 minutes after we get injuries in our top 4 isn't DJ trusting him, its literally using him as a 3rd pairing guy naturally bumping him up. Brannstrom should've been playing in the top 4 since day 1. Nick Holden had more ice time than him per game.

Brannstrom was very obviously not ready for top 4 minutes until recently. Development is not binary, it's not "do they have it or not" it takes time and some players need to be handled more delicately. An undersized, skilled defenseman is the exact type of player where a patient approach is one that might be needed.

 

[bicboi64]

Chabot is definitely a good defensemen, but he went from a legitimate #1 who trended towards the top 10 in the league to now being surpassed in play by Sanderson. Chabot this season did not play like a #1 defender and has declined over the years.

Stu having optimal linemates isn't going to win us games every night. You need to spread your talent sometimes and having a 40g threat play with Stu can accomplish that as well. Every coach in the league has their favourites, DJ relies on his a little too much at the cost of 5on5 scoring throughout the rest of our forwards.

Brannstrom was ready for the top 4 minutes as of last season. He literally played in the top 4 as strong as he did this year when Chabot went down last year.

 

[Samsquanch]

Chabot's best season was his 2017-18 year when he filled Karlsson's shoes offensively and ate minutes. He's never been as good as that before and that's coincided with DJ taking over and playing him as a top minute guy in the league despite him not being good enough to play 25+ minutes every night. When DJ took over, after Chabot, our blueline was Hainsey, DeMelo, Zaitsev, Reilly and Borocop. Chabot is a talented guy, but he's been our best defender because until last season, our whole blueline has been awful.

DJ also didn't play Cat with Stu. Tkachuk has proven chemistry with Batherson, yet DJ rode one line and the PP the whole year.

Brannstrom playing top 4 minutes after we get injuries in our top 4 isn't DJ trusting him, its literally using him as a 3rd pairing guy naturally bumping him up. Brannstrom should've been playing in the top 4 since day 1. Nick Holden had more ice time than him per game.

Our players work? Our captain doesn't backcheck, our #1 defender has regressed, and we are a one line team. Our skaters are out there doing cardio, which I guess is work, but not exactly impressive.

Ask yourself why every opposing teams coaching staff and color commentators all without fail continuously praise the Senators for being an extremely hard working young team?

And then ask yourself, why don't I see it as well?

Not even trying to be rude, but its something you can identify in teams down to the lowest level of house league hockey. Less talented teams can punch above their own weight class if they are working that much harder. Even your average hoceky mom or dad can recognize it most of the time...

That doesn't mean that every back check was perfect, or that they smothered their opponents defensively either. It just means that they clearly put a lot of effort and fight into the game, didnt quit, and it showed to the people who watched it....

The game stayed competitive, is what the ultimate point being is. And DJ taught the young Sens how to do that, despite being a hopelessly bad team the whole way through.

 

[bicboi64]

Ask yourself why every opposing teams coaching staff and color commentators all without fail continuously praise the Senators for being an extremely hard working young team?

And then ask yourself, why don't I see it as well?

Not even trying to be rude, but its something you can identify in teams down to the lowest level of house league hockey. Less talented teams can punch above their own weight class if they are working that much harder. Even your average hoceky mom or dad can recognize it most of the time...

That doesn't mean that every back check was perfect, or that they smothered their opponents defensively either. It just means that they clearly put a lot of effort and fight into the game, didnt quit, and it showed to the people who watched it....

The game stayed competitive, is what the ultimate point being is. And DJ taught the young Sens how to do that, despite being a hopelessly bad team the whole way through.

The issue with your argument is that opposing coaches will rarely say stuff like "the opposing team doesn't skate that hard or try".

Everyone now and then you'll have a moment where a coach says something negative about another organization (Cassidy recently about the Yotes), but its rare. Commentators and coaches saying the Sens work hard is meaningless.

Our team had flaws, our D wasn't as good as can be but we had a forward core that should've been in the top 10 across the league. Every team skates hard and works their asses off. Its the NHL, these are professionals, unless a roster is composed of Sergei Kostitsyn's, every player is going is going to put in effort.

The Sens put in effort, just like 31 other teams, but in the end it didn't really translate into anything.

 

[PatrickEaves]

The issue with your argument is that opposing coaches will rarely say stuff like "the opposing team doesn't skate that hard or try".

Everyone now and then you'll have a moment where a coach says something negative about another organization (Cassidy recently about the Yotes), but its rare. Commentators and coaches saying the Sens work hard is meaningless.

Our team had flaws, our D wasn't as good as can be but we had a forward core that should've been in the top 10 across the league. Every team skates hard and works their asses off. Its the NHL, these are professionals, unless a roster is composed of Sergei Kostitsyn's, every player is going is going to put in effort.

The Sens put in effort, just like 31 other teams, but in the end it didn't really translate into anything.

It's basically if you can't say anything nice. There's nothing else to point to, so they just say they work hard.

 

[LevelingSolo]

DJ was in a unique position that he was hired specifically for being the coach who was going to be there at the start of a scorched earth rebuild to develop the upcoming talent into NHL stars. Not many coaches are in that position (even LA with McLellan kept key pieces in Kopitar and Doughty, whereas Ottawa sold off everyone), so I'm not surprised not many coaches have been tenured longer.

And it's bizarre to say he has nothing to show for it. He was brought in to develop the young players. He has Stützle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Chabot, and Sanderson to show for it. He's done a very good job handling the development of those players. It's only this past season that he had a different mission, which was to get the team playing meaningful games at the end of the season, and he also accomplished that.

I don't have a problem if people think this team would be better off with another coach moving forward, but these types of arguments are so completely disingenuous it's hard not to think that people aren't approaching these discussions with rationality and logic.

Well that's your opinion, I don't think he's shown nearly enough to keep his job for 5th season

It's not disingenuous, statistically he should not be coaching this team any longer

This coach has so many apologists in his corner

 

[JD1]

The issue with your argument is that opposing coaches will rarely say stuff like "the opposing team doesn't skate that hard or try".

Everyone now and then you'll have a moment where a coach says something negative about another organization (Cassidy recently about the Yotes), but its rare. Commentators and coaches saying the Sens work hard is meaningless.

Our team had flaws, our D wasn't as good as can be but we had a forward core that should've been in the top 10 across the league. Every team skates hard and works their asses off. Its the NHL, these are professionals, unless a roster is composed of Sergei Kostitsyn's, every player is going is going to put in effort.

The Sens put in effort, just like 31 other teams, but in the end it didn't really translate into anything.

Watch some games with the opposing team feed and listen to the analysts on the other side talk about Ottawa. @Samsquanch take here is pretty accurate

 

[Ice-Tray]

It's basically if you can't say anything nice. There's nothing else to point to, so they just say they work hard.

Lol no. Try listening to some out of town feeds. They pay a lot of compliments to a team that they don’t have to say much about at all.

The team is getting better, you’re going to have to transition as well as a fan.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Watch some games with the opposing team feed and listen to the analysts on the other side talk about Ottawa. @Samsquanch take here is pretty accurate

The outside view of the Senators is very different from the inside view. Remember the infamous Keith Tkachuk interview when he called the Panthers soft? Well in the same interview, he also said that "Ottawa doesn't have a lot of talent but they work hard."

Meanwhile, Sens fans will tell you that we have a team overflowing with young talent and are on the verge of contention.

 

[JD1]

The outside view of the Senators is very different from the inside view. Remember the infamous Keith Tkachuk interview when he called the Panthers soft? Well in the same interview, he also said that "Ottawa doesn't have a lot of talent but they work hard."

Meanwhile, Sens fans will tell you that we have a team overflowing with young talent and are on the verge of contention.

That's not exactly what he said.

What he said was

"I know every time I come and watch Ottawa, they may not be the most talented team but they’re going to play hard"

So what he actually said has a bit of a different spin to it that what you're looking to do.

Back to my point about listening to opposing teams analysts... we've got a 500 goal scorer quoted as saying "they're going to play hard" and we've got guys on here clamouring for toughness because we need to be harder to play against at the same time as being ok getting rid of a guy that's a top 15 goal scorer over and extended period of time.