Management Coach DJ Smith - Part 2

[aragorn]

The past 4 season's starts under Smith:

22/23 10 - 13 - 1
21/22 7 - 16 - 1
20/21 8 - 15 - 1
19/20 11 - 12 - 1

That Dorion has hitched his wagon to this horse only reaffirms what I already feel to be true - neither will last past the end of November.

You cannot expect a coach to be successful when the team is rebuilding & so young as they were during those yrs. Last season they took a big step forward & next season will be another test as to where this team is in respect to a playoff spot. They lost Formenton & Norris all of last yr for the most part & lost both NHL goalies on & off throughout the season & especially when they needed them the most during the western trip. Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson & Pinto all looked so much better last yr & Batherson should be better next season & they should have Norris back.

They are getting better & we just need to have some patience to see if they can make the playoffs next season. If not, most here will demand changes in personnel & management.

 

[Wondercarrot]

I’m good with DJ coming back, IMO the continuity outweighs the risk of a new coach right at the start of the year.
It also leaves the new owner the option of a ‘free’ coaching GM change if needed.
However, if they don’t outright win 10 of their first 15 I want him fired.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I’m good with DJ coming back, IMO the continuity outweighs the risk of a new coach right at the start of the year.
It also leaves the new owner the option of a ‘free’ coaching GM change if needed.
However, if they don’t outright win 10 of their first 15 I want him fired.

Pretty sure most coaches get fired and hired in the offseason.

If training camp isn't enough to teach players a new system . . . these aren't the players we're going to win with.

If the Sens have a chance to bring in a big name veteran coach they absolutely need to do it.

 

[swiftwin]

The past 4 season's starts under Smith:

22/23 10 - 13 - 1
21/22 7 - 16 - 1
20/21 8 - 15 - 1
19/20 11 - 12 - 1

That Dorion has hitched his wagon to this horse only reaffirms what I already feel to be true - neither will last past the end of November.

This false narrative has been beaten to death over and over.

19/20: That was our tank year. In fact, this was probably our best stretch of the whole season.

20/21: We had no training camp, no pre-season, we hadn't played hockey in 11 months. Every other team in our division played hockey a few months prior in the playoff bubble. We were at a big disadvantage to every other team we played against. (remember we only played against division teams that season).

21/22: We had a COVID outbreak in November, where we had to play games with up to 15 regulars out of the lineup. We were not allowed to practice for over 3 weeks. How the f*** is the coach supposed to do his job if he's not allowed to hold practices and he's not allowed to play 75% of his team??? The league finally mercifully started postponing our games because of how ridiculous it was getting.

22/23: This is the only season where you can sort of criticize him for a slow start. However a case could be made that losing your #1C, #1D, #2D and one of your starting goalies would put you at a big disadvantage, but I digress, I suppose every team has to deal with injuries.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

This false narrative has been beaten to death over and over.

19/20: That was our tank year. In fact, this was probably our best stretch of the whole season.

20/21: We had no training camp, no pre-season, we hadn't played hockey in 11 months. Every other team in our division played hockey a few months prior in the playoff bubble. We were at a big disadvantage to every other team we played against. (remember we only played against division teams that season).

21/22: We had a COVID outbreak in November, where we had to play games with up to 15 regulars out of the lineup. We were not allowed to practice for over 3 weeks. How the f*** is the coach supposed to do his job if he's not allowed to hold practices and he's not allowed to play 75% of his team??? The league finally mercifully started postponing our games because of how ridiculous it was getting.

22/23: This is the only season where you can sort of criticize him for a slow start. However a case could be made that losing your #1C, #1D, #2D and one of your starting goalies would put you at a big disadvantage, but I digress, I suppose every team has to deal with injuries.

These circumstances are fair to point out, but he's certainly never overachieved and risen above any of it though, for whatever that's worth.

 

[swiftwin]

These circumstances are fair to point out, but he's certainly never overachieved and risen above any of it though, for whatever that's worth.

I would argue that he overachieved to start the season in 19/20. Being almost .500 when your first line is Pageau, Brown and 19yr old Tkachuk is pretty impressive.

He deserves no criticism for 20/21 and 21/22. Especially 21/22. The most important tool is a coach's toolbox is practice. He wasn't allowed to have practices in November. How can anyone in their right mind blame DJ for that.

Last season was the first season he deserved a little bit of criticism for the slow start.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I would argue that he overachieved to start the season in 19/20. Being almost .500 when your first line is Pageau, Brown and 19yr old Tkachuk is pretty impressive.

He deserves no criticism for 20/21 and 21/22. Especially 21/22. The most important tool is a coach's toolbox is practice. He wasn't allowed to have practices in November. How can anyone in their right mind blame DJ for that.

Last season was the first season he deserved a little bit of criticism for the slow start.

I don't think anyone needs to "blame" him, even though that's what happens, but even with the circumstances, I would say the results are pedestrian. Unspectacular. Fine. Or however else that can be put.

Sort of like I said about Dorion earlier. Enough to justify keeping him if that's the chosen path, and enough to justify not if that's the choice.

 

[Blotto71]

This false narrative has been beaten to death over and over.

19/20: That was our tank year. In fact, this was probably our best stretch of the whole season.

20/21: We had no training camp, no pre-season, we hadn't played hockey in 11 months. Every other team in our division played hockey a few months prior in the playoff bubble. We were at a big disadvantage to every other team we played against. (remember we only played against division teams that season).

21/22: We had a COVID outbreak in November, where we had to play games with up to 15 regulars out of the lineup. We were not allowed to practice for over 3 weeks. How the f*** is the coach supposed to do his job if he's not allowed to hold practices and he's not allowed to play 75% of his team??? The league finally mercifully started postponing our games because of how ridiculous it was getting.

22/23: This is the only season where you can sort of criticize him for a slow start. However a case could be made that losing your #1C, #1D, #2D and one of your starting goalies would put you at a big disadvantage, but I digress, I suppose every team has to deal with injuries.

Are those not the stats? Not sure how you can claim this to be a "false narrative". DJ's teams have started slow the past 4 seasons - make all the excuses you want, they won't change the facts.

 

[Beech]

Are those not the stats? Not sure how you can claim this to be a "false narrative". DJ's teams have started slow the past 4 seasons - make all the excuses you want, they won't change the facts.

it is still context and judgment based upon the relative.

I am a huge cycling enthusiast, but am near 60. Get me up against some 22 year old and he would destroy me.
Get me up against that 22 year old's 75 year old grandfather and I would destroy him
So judge me against something more representative. Like say other 60 year olds.

The Sens have been in turmoil. This is probably year 1 (the 2023/2024 season) that they may have a stable, mature team.. Now judge.

Another poor first 20 games and everyone will be fired.

 

[swiftwin]

Are those not the stats? Not sure how you can claim this to be a "false narrative". DJ's teams have started slow the past 4 seasons - make all the excuses you want, they won't change the facts.

Yes, these are the stats. Notice how I said that the narrative you are presenting is false, and not that the stats are false? Correlation does not equal causation. I have presented strong evidence that the narrative you are trying to portray is false. I'm sorry reality does not jive with your prejudices.

 

[Sens Vader]

Horrible starts are on the coach, he runs the training camp and sorts out his lines.

It’s not like the rosters changed significantly after November where three seasons straight we started playing 500 hockey or better after being completely out of it.

I understand we got hit with injuries, but cmon. It was unimaginable failure for the first 20 games.

Almost the same roster died in the first 20 games as the one that played decent the next 20. Norris didn’t come back, pinto didn’t come back the year prior - we played well to finish each year

It’s three seasons in a row. You can’t ignore that and I hope DJ and the players sort it out.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Horrible starts are on the coach, he runs the training camp and sorts out his lines.

It’s not like the rosters changed significantly after November where three seasons straight we started playing 500 hockey or better after being completely out of it.

I understand we got hit with injuries, but cmon. It was unimaginable failure for the first 20 games.

Almost the same roster died in the first 20 games as the one that played decent the next 20. Norris didn’t come back, pinto didn’t come back the year prior - we played well to finish each year

It’s three seasons in a row. You can’t ignore that and I hope DJ and the players sort it out.

Yep that’s why Sens need both their starting goalies 2 not get injured in first 2 months, give themselves a chance.
Sens need a goalie.

 

[Sens Vader]

Yep that’s why Sens need both their starting goalies 2 not get injured in first 2 months, give themselves a chance.
Sens need a goalie.

We need everything banging to get hot out of the gate.

I don't see the point in arguing if DJ holds 15% of the blame for bad starts or 85% of the blame.

Just figure it the hell out or he's gonna be fired.

 

[Blotto71]

Yes, these are the stats. Notice how I said that the narrative you are presenting is false, and not that the stats are false? Correlation does not equal causation. I have presented strong evidence that the narrative you are trying to portray is false. I'm sorry reality does not jive with your prejudices.

You have presented your subjective opinion regarding those starts, and made excuses for Smith in the process. I'm sorry you do not understand the difference between subjective opinion and objective fact.

 

[swiftwin]

You have presented your subjective opinion regarding those starts, and made excuses for Smith in the process. I'm sorry you do not understand the difference between subjective opinion and objective fact.

You're the one who doesn't understand the difference.

The team's record is a fact.

It's your subjective opinion that the team's record is the result of DJs abilities as a coach.

It's my subjective option that the team's record is the result of extreme circumstances outside of DJ's control.

 

[Blotto71]

You're the one who doesn't understand the difference.

The team's record is a fact.

It's your subjective opinion that the team's record is the result of DJs abilities as a coach.

It's my subjective option that the team's record is the result of extreme circumstances outside of DJ's control.

19/20 24gp gf 65 ga 70
20/21 24gp gf 66 ga 92
21/22 24gp gf 63 ga 93
22/23 24gp gf 75 ga 78

So following the summer Dorion had last year, Smith was able to cobble together a slightly better start than in 19/20. If that's good enough for you, okay, I'll leave it alone.

 

[swiftwin]

Horrible starts are on the coach, he runs the training camp and sorts out his lines.

It’s not like the rosters changed significantly after November where three seasons straight we started playing 500 hockey or better after being completely out of it.

I understand we got hit with injuries, but cmon. It was unimaginable failure for the first 20 games.

Almost the same roster died in the first 20 games as the one that played decent the next 20. Norris didn’t come back, pinto didn’t come back the year prior - we played well to finish each year

It’s three seasons in a row. You can’t ignore that and I hope DJ and the players sort it out.

What training camp??? There was no training camp in 20/21, and he wasn't allowed to run practices for 3 weeks near the beginning of the 21/22 season. WTF is he supposed to do?

So following the summer Dorion had last year, Smith was able to cobble together a slightly better start than in 19/20. If that's good enough for you, okay, I'll leave it alone.

No, it's not good enough for me. Once again, you're making baseless assumptions and accusations.

 

[Sens Vader]

What training camp??? There was no training camp in 20/21, and he wasn't allowed to run practices for 3 weeks near the beginning of the 21/22 season. WTF is he supposed to do?


No, it's not good enough for me. Once again, you're making baseless assumptions and accusations.

The same thing as the other 31 coaches. This isn't unique to Ottawa

DJ Holds blame for bad starts, you can argue how much blame but to completely remove the head coach from the equation is laughable over 3 consecutive seasons.

 

[Blotto71]

No, it's not good enough for me. Once again, you're making baseless assumptions and accusations.

No, you're making baseless assumptions and accusations.

 

[aragorn]

The same thing at the other 31 coaches. This isnt unique to Ottawa

There were 15 of those coaches who also missed the playoffs some with a worse record than ours.

 

[Sens Vader]

There were 15 of those coaches who also missed the playoffs some with a worse record than ours.

And?

 

[aragorn]

And?

A number of those coaches are coming back too.

 

[Sens Vader]

A number of those coaches are coming back too.

None of them have been the coach for going on 5 seasons, but that's not really the point.

The point is DJ holds some blame for bad starts (you can argue how much blame but it is kind of irrelevant), and if he doesn't get off to a good start I think he will be on the hot seat, and rightfully so.

 

[aragorn]

None of them have been the coach for 5 seasons, but that's not really the point.

The point is DJ holds some blame for bad starts, and if he doesn't get off to a good start I think he will be on the hot seat, and rightfully so.

We all think that.

 

[swiftwin]

The same thing as the other 31 coaches. This isn't unique to Ottawa

DJ Holds blame for bad starts, you can argue how much blame but to completely remove the head coach from the equation is laughable over 3 consecutive seasons.

Yes it was unique to Ottawa. Did you not read anything I wrote?

In 20/21, Ottawa was the only team in the division that didn't play any hockey in 11 months, and thus were at an extreme disadvantage by not having a training camp.

In 21/22, Ottawa and the Islanders were the only teams that were forced to play games (and not allowed to practice) while suffering a significant COVID outbreak. The Islanders were just as bad as we were, and they went from being in the ECF two years in a row to missing the playoffs.