Management Claude Julien - Mod Warning post 643

[LSCII]

In terms of another example of Julien mishandling a player, I'd say Claude **** the bed with Loui. Why it took not one, not two, but three years for him to get a shot to play regularly with David Krejci is beyond me. You may not consider LE a star, but he was a pretty consistent scorer before his time in Boston, and again this year once he played with a good set up man.

 

[Scotto74]

I have always liked Koko but he genuinely seemed to play like he deserved to be here and not like he was fighting for a spot. Guys like Accairi, Vatrano, Pasta in his rookie year really seemed to bust it, Koko not so much.

Claude I'm sure never expected him to light it up scoring but most nights he played he was in the screen of the TV but never doing anything.

went to a few P Bruins games this year and was not impressed with what I saw from Koko so not at all shocked he hasn't made the jump.

My daughter gives more effort cheering at the game then he does playing in it.

 

[jgatie]

In terms of another example of Julien mishandling a player, I'd say Claude **** the bed with Loui. Why it took not one, not two, but three years for him to get a shot to play regularly with David Krejci is beyond me. You may not consider LE a star, but he was a pretty consistent scorer before his time in Boston, and again this year once he played with a good set up man.

I'm not sure that Loui's breakout season for the B's was due to the Krejci switch, or the fact he was healthy after two concussions. I'm sure Claude knows, and Loui himself has attributed it to health. But it is at least a logical question to ask, if not one that we can objectively answer.

Hell, a true cynic would blame it all on it being a contract season and be done with it. I'm really not sure why you didn't go that route.

 

[Scotto74]

I'm all for giving Claude another shot but at what point do you fire him? The entire NHL seems to be going uptempo and the last three seasons Claude has one play-off series win. Do you rebuild and let him oversee that the next 4-7 years or so?

If you go full rebuild then I see more a case to let him go and start fresh. I don't see management committing to that though.

 

[RustyBruins72]

I'm all for giving Claude another shot but at what point do you fire him? The entire NHL seems to be going uptempo and the last three seasons Claude has one play-off series win. Do you rebuild and let him oversee that the next 4-7 years or so?

I think I'm with you Lou.

Give CJ another shot with a much better D corp, most core players (Maybe 1 or 2 gone) and see what happens.

But if re-build is the plan with moving rask, etc, then yeah fire CJ and let a new coach start fresh.

 

[jgatie]

If you go full rebuild then I see more a case to let him go and start fresh. I don't see management committing to that though.

I'm going to say Claude is gone because they need a scapegoat/need to do something. Not my choice, but business is business.

 

[SPLBRUIN]

If you didn't see people complaining about this crappy defense all year, I question if you were actually reading posts. Everything else about the team may have been highly situational, but one rock solid consistent theme from day 1 was the crappy defense.

The D wasn't very good but the new Flyers coach took an equally or even worse D to the playoffs while playing in a tougher division. Even the Pens with a bunch of inexperienced kids on D managed to figure it out, that's real coaching. The great Julien's defensive system is now leaking water and when it does, CJ has no answers, because that is all he knows. Being a stubborn man I really don't know if he is capable of being other than a one-trick pony, system, system , system.

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

Saw this earlier.

Can't say I blame him much, given the circumstances. He has been in the AHL for three seasons and almost 200 games and has averaged .087 ppg, yet has never really gotten a fair look (imo) while he sees other players come up and stick.

He will probably do the Hopak if Clode is fired.

I'm assuming you mean 0.87 ppg?

 

[LSCII]

I'm not sure that Loui's breakout season for the B's was due to the Krejci switch, or the fact he was healthy after two concussions. I'm sure Claude knows, and Loui himself has attributed it to health. But it is at least a logical question to ask, if not one that we can objectively answer.

Hell, a true cynic would blame it all on it being a contract season and be done with it. I'm really not sure why you didn't go that route.

Yeah, I'll formulate my own arguments without any input from you, but thanks.

They had Loui playing on the third line with Soderberg. All along he should have been playing with Krejci. No matter what you want to attribute his bounce back this season to, Claude ****ed that up. He should have been with Krejci all along.

And another example of a star that Claude misused would be Jaromir Jagr. The Jagr had great chemistry with DK when they played together during the worlds. You think that would matter and make Claude want to put them together? Nope. Not at all. That's on him too. Big mistake. Wasted him on the third line with two offensive black holes, and then finally made the switch to put him on a line with Bergy. Not even a passing thought about using him with a guy he had chemistry with.

So there. I've given three examples of players where Claude didn't do the right thing now. Dismiss away like usual...

 

[bruins repeat time]

The D wasn't very good but the new Flyers coach took an equally or even worse D to the playoffs while playing in a tougher division. Even the Pens with a bunch of inexperienced kids on D managed to figure it out, that's real coaching. The great Julien's defensive system is now leaking water and when it does, CJ has no answers, because that is all he knows. Being a stubborn man I really don't know if he is capable of being other than a one-trick pony, system, system , system.

Philly scored 26 less goals and gave up 12 less

pitt scored 5 more goals and gave up 27 less

 

[bruins repeat time]

Yeah, I'll formulate my own arguments without any input from you, but thanks.

They had Loui playing on the third line with Soderberg. All along he should have been playing with Krejci. No matter what you want to attribute his bounce back this season to, Claude ****ed that up. He should have been with Krejci all along.

And another example of a star that Claude misused would be Jaromir Jagr. The Jagr had great chemistry with DK when they played together during the worlds. You think that would matter and make Claude want to put them together? Nope. Not at all. That's on him too. Big mistake. Wasted him on the third line with two offensive black holes, and then finally made the switch to put him on a line with Bergy. Not even a passing thought about using him with a guy he had chemistry with.

So there. I've given three examples of players where Claude didn't do the right thing now. Dismiss away like usual...

Honestly how can u say he is anything but a moron when you basically blame him for ruining young guys old guy etc etc. I don't mind guys that question something here or there but guys like the two above who talk like he couldn't coach a pee wee team just kind of gets to me. You said this team would finish right near the bottom yet he got 93 points out of them. How do those two things make sense to you.

 

[jgatie]

The D wasn't very good but the new Flyers coach took an equally or even worse D to the playoffs while playing in a tougher division. Even the Pens with a bunch of inexperienced kids on D managed to figure it out, that's real coaching. The great Julien's defensive system is now leaking water and when it does, CJ has no answers, because that is all he knows. Being a stubborn man I really don't know if he is capable of being other than a one-trick pony, system, system , system.

The system does not make up for a porous D, that is for sure. Though I would argue that Philly and Pitts have a much higher level offense than us. Of course that just circles back to the Seguin/Kessel/offensive talent argument again, and around and around we go. Agree to disagree.

 

[LSCII]

Honestly how can u say he is anything but a moron when you basically blame him for ruining young guys old guy etc etc. I don't mind guys that question something here or there but guys like two above who talk like he couldn't coach a pee wee team just kind of gets to me.

But I haven't said he's a moron. In fact, I've said he's a good coach many times. I just don't think he's the right guy for this job anymore. I think with the roster they're going to have going forward, the style of play the new GM wants, and two straight years of collapsing down the stretch, it's simply time for a change. I think the players need to hear a new voice that they're not comfortable with, one that will make them work harder to fight the complacency that seems to overtake them throughout the season. I also have no doubts that Julien will be employed five minutes after Boston fires him, because again, he's a good coach.

 

[BMC]

All of that offense going on with a bunch of grinders because management trades away all the pure offensive players.

CJ's system is made for offense. Imagine what the goals for would have been like if they got some top end offensive talent that will commit to playing a 200 foot game for him to play.

Fixed it for you. You're welcome!

 

[bruins repeat time]

Lets face it there is really only one possible reason Claude should be fired that is if Don and him didn't see eye to eye on who to use and how to play. If Sweeney fires him and comes out and says it has everything to do with results I will lose a ton of respect and confidence in him.

 

[Scotto74]

Yeah, I'll formulate my own arguments without any input from you, but thanks.

They had Loui playing on the third line with Soderberg. All along he should have been playing with Krejci. No matter what you want to attribute his bounce back this season to, Claude ****ed that up. He should have been with Krejci all along.

And another example of a star that Claude misused would be Jaromir Jagr. The Jagr had great chemistry with DK when they played together during the worlds. You think that would matter and make Claude want to put them together? Nope. Not at all. That's on him too. Big mistake. Wasted him on the third line with two offensive black holes, and then finally made the switch to put him on a line with Bergy. Not even a passing thought about using him with a guy he had chemistry with.

So there. I've given three examples of players where Claude didn't do the right thing now. Dismiss away like usual...

come on now with the Jagr example. That team made it to the sixth game of the SCF's. you really think CJ should have broke up the top line and put Jagr there?

I agree Jagr didn't click and (in my opinion) sucked where he was but to change up what is working to accomidate Jagr is ridiclous. you would break up Krejci - Horton - Lucic who had 23 playoff goals in 22 playoff games as a line just to manage Jagr correctly? Man I am so happy your not the coach given this logic.


Then when he moved him with Bergy it was to move Seguin down to third line so now he is misshandling Seguin as well as Jagr. Very bad example in my opinion and another example of him losing no matter how he handled the situation for some poeple.

damned if you do and damned if you don't

tell me how the perfect coach would have handled that

 

[Scotto74]

Fixed it for you. You're welcome!

well done.

 

[bruins repeat time]

But I haven't said he's a moron. In fact, I've said he's a good coach many times. I just don't think he's the right guy for this job anymore. I think with the roster they're going to have going forward, the style of play the new GM wants, and two straight years of collapsing down the stretch, it's simply time for a change. I think the players need to hear a new voice that they're not comfortable with, one that will make them work harder to fight the complacency that seems to overtake them throughout the season. I also have no doubts that Julien will be employed five minutes after Boston fires him, because again, he's a good coach.

I know you have and I can totally respect your opinion in this post but this post doesn't match your others when you basically blame him for everything in the world.

 

[BMC]

Yeah Lonnie, we wouldn't want anyone to rewrite history to fit a narrative.

God forbid

 

[LSCII]

come on now with the Jagr example. That team made it to the sixth game of the SCF's. you really think CJ should have broke up the top line and put Jagr there?

I agree Jagr didn't click and (in my opinion) sucked where he was but to change up what is working to accomidate Jagr is ridiclous. you would break up Krejci - Horton - Lucic who had 23 playoff goals in 22 playoff games as a line just to manage Jagr correctly? Man I am so happy your not the coach given this logic.


Then when he moved him with Bergy it was to move Seguin down to third line so now he is misshandling Seguin as well as Jagr. Very bad example in my opinion and another example of him losing no matter how he handled the situation for some poeple.

damned if you do and damned if you don't

tell me how the perfect coach would have handled that

You mean the same Horton who had 2 whopping points, both assists, against the Blackhawks in their series? The same Horton who had all of 7 shots on net in that 6 game series? Do I dare suggest that maybe Claude should have shaken things up in that spot? Why yes. Yes I do.

 

[BMC]

well done.

Thanks!

But seriously, IMO that is the issue that players like Kessel & Seguin had with Claude & vice versa. If either or both Kessel & Seguin had committed themselves to improving their 3 zone play Claude would have thrown them out there at every opportunity. They didn't or wouldn't, so he didn't.

And I don't buy the argument that by insisting all of his players play a 200 foot game that CJ stifles offense. That's nonsense. You can score a bunch of goals & still be defensively responsible. It isn't an either or choice.

 

[LouJersey]

so did the system change over the final 19 games or did the players stop executing the system? which do you think is more likely? My opinion is it was the players due to lack of talent and lack of heart.

When the players aren't executing it's up to the coach to switch it up, bench, double/triple shift...Claude bangs his head into the wall rolling out the same **** many times hoping it changes. He's slow to adjust. You can't just skate the same lines all game when it's obvious even to the concession people that its not working.

I agree though that no grown man should ever need another to motivate him.

 

[Scotto74]

You mean the same Horton who had 2 whopping points, both assists, against the Blackhawks in their series? The same Horton who had all of 7 shots on net in that 6 game series? Do I dare suggest that maybe Claude should have shaken things up in that spot? Why yes. Yes I do.

way yes the same horton that was 3rd on the team in goals in the playoffs that year 2 behind bergy and Krejci. Yes thats the guy I didn't want to swap with a player how had zero goals up to that point in the playoffs.

exactly right. If CJ made that move he should have been fired on the spot that game.

 

[jgatie]

But I haven't said he's a moron. In fact, I've said he's a good coach many times. I just don't think he's the right guy for this job anymore. I think with the roster they're going to have going forward, the style of play the new GM wants, and two straight years of collapsing down the stretch, it's simply time for a change. I think the players need to hear a new voice that they're not comfortable with, one that will make them work harder to fight the complacency that seems to overtake them throughout the season. I also have no doubts that Julien will be employed five minutes after Boston fires him, because again, he's a good coach.

Lonnie, no joke. If the style of play the GM wants is (for whatever reason) impossible for Claude to implement, I want him gone too. I'm not as sure as you that this is the case, or that management is willing to make the sacrifices to implement the style despite growing pains (I am sure that is what happened in the fall). However, if Claude truly is the impediment, then he has to go.

We may disagree on everything, on this question, to paraphrase a great hockey sage, it " may be the first time you've answered honestly".

 

[bruins repeat time]

Thanks!

But seriously, IMO that is the issue that players like Kessel & Seguin had with Claude & vice versa. If either or both Kessel & Seguin had committed themselves to improving their 3 zone play Claude would have thrown them out there at every opportunity. They didn't or wouldn't, so he didn't.

And I don't buy the argument that by insisting all of his players play a 200 foot game that CJ stifles offense. That's nonsense. You can score a bunch of goals & still be defensively responsible. It isn't an either or choice.

Even though I am a Claude supporter please don't put kessel and seguin in the same boat. Seguin tried very hard in all areas on the ice and credits Claude with helping his game. Kessel didn't like him even though he wont say it but has proven to be at the very least a tough guy to get to buy in to everything