Management Claude Julien - Mod Warning post 643

[Scotto74]

When the players aren't executing it's up to the coach to switch it up, bench, double/triple shift...Claude bangs his head into the wall rolling out the same **** many times hoping it changes. He's slow to adjust. You can't just skate the same lines all game when it's obvious even to the concession people that its not working.

I agree though that no grown man should ever need another to motivate him.

I am with you I would like more adjustments in game from CJ 100%. but if he put a zero goal guy on the first line in place of your third leading scorer in the Stanley cup finals I would have shot my TV.

 

[LouJersey]

You mean the same Horton who had 2 whopping points, both assists, against the Blackhawks in their series? The same Horton who had all of 7 shots on net in that 6 game series? Do I dare suggest that maybe Claude should have shaken things up in that spot? Why yes. Yes I do.

Claude def goes down with the titanic..I've never seen a coach so stubborn to in game change. Sad part is he expects the same loyalty back from his players which they haven't given him back. I hear how everyone loves him that plays for him but they put in that craptastic effort? He deserved better from them IMO.

 

[LSCII]

I know you have and I can totally respect your opinion in this post but this post doesn't match your others when you basically blame him for everything in the world.

But I don't. I'm certainly critical of him and I feel like most of it is well deserved. I'm also critical of Neely. And of Sweeney. And I was very critical of Chia. And I also get that the players shoulder a large part of the blame because they're the guys who came out in the last game and rolled over with zero effort.

Make no mistakes. This blame pie has plenty of pieces to go around and nobody in this organization is devoid of blame for what's happened the last 2 seasons. It's unacceptable.

Last year, Chia got fired because of it and rightly so. Players they felt didn't put in the effort or make the strides they wanted got moved out of here and rightly so. This year, they had a repeat of that same collapse. They fired the last GM. They moved players from the core. Yet it happened again. Sorry, but now because of that epic bed ********, Claude is on the hook. I also assume we're going to see more players shipped out over the summer as well. If they miss again next year, I'd expect Neely and Sweeney to be on the block. This year though, it's simply Claude's time to go. If Sweeney and Neely don't do something, what kind of message does that send to the players?

 

[jgatie]

Even though I am a Claude supporter please don't put kessel and seguin in the same boat. Seguin tried very hard in all areas on the ice and credits Claude with helping his game. Kessel didn't like him even though he wont say it but has proven to be at the very least a tough guy to get to buy in to everything

Seguin wasn't a board battler, and I saw him do the "wave a stick and curl" too many times when he should be banging for the puck, but his 200 ft. game was far, far better than Kessel. At least Seguin back checked, and knew what a corner was, even if he didn't go there often.

 

[LouJersey]

I am with you I would like more adjustments in game from CJ 100%. but if he put a zero goal guy on the first line in place of your third leading scorer in the Stanley cup finals I would have shot my TV.

He needed to put Jagr with Krejci somewhere IMO.. Some time. SC finals may have not been the setting for it, but somewhere to get Jagr going. I think they beat the Hawks with Jagr skating on Krejci's wing.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...-bruins-coach-claude-julien-stanley-cup-final

 

[LSCII]

way yes the same horton that was 3rd on the team in goals in the playoffs that year 2 behind bergy and Krejci. Yes thats the guy I didn't want to swap with a player how had zero goals up to that point in the playoffs.

exactly right. If CJ made that move he should have been fired on the spot that game.

Go back and look at that series as an example of two very different modes of coaching. Quennville shook things up when his lines weren't producing, and viola, they started producing. Claude stood pat, and they gave up 2 goals in a 2 minute span to watch the cup go back to Chicago. You can argue the merits of both styles til you're blue in the face. One guy threw everything he had at the problem because he understood the magnitude of the situation, and the other fiddled as Rome burned.

 

[LouJersey]

Seguin wasn't a board battler, and I saw him do the "wave a stick and curl" too many times when he should be banging for the puck, but his 200 ft. game was far, far better than Kessel. At least Seguin back checked, and knew what a corner was, even if he didn't go there often.

Kessel's first two years were bad in that aspect IMO but I think he did a lot better in his final year here. I understand the trading him if that's what they felt, but they never got anyone to replace him in 09-10. Team was behind the eight ball all year it seemed.

 

[Scotto74]

He needed to put Jagr with Krejci somewhere IMO.. Some time. SC finals may have not been the setting for it, but somewhere to get Jagr going. I think they beat the Hawks with Jagr skating on Krejci's wing.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...-bruins-coach-claude-julien-stanley-cup-final

and I think they don't even make it to the Hawks with Jagr playing on Krejci's wing.

Lucic-Krejci-Horton carried the offensive production in that playoff run followed by Bergy doing it alone for his line. You swap out Jagr and Horton and it dosen't click we never see a second cup finals.

then you are in the cup finals and the top line slows down you put anyone and I mean anyone on that top line over the guy with zero goals. I would have put Seguin up there before Jagr based on how they were playing.

jagr was in the wrong place at the wrong time. There was no way to manage him correctly and get to game 6 of the finals. Bergy got hurt bad and that was game over. Marchand/Seguin/Jagr were no shows.

 

[Scotto74]

Go back and look at that series as an example of two very different modes of coaching. Quennville shook things up when his lines weren't producing, and viola, they started producing. Claude stood pat, and they gave up 2 goals in a 2 minute span to watch the cup go back to Chicago. You can argue the merits of both styles til you're blue in the face. One guy threw everything he had at the problem because he understood the magnitude of the situation, and the other fiddled as Rome burned.

and giving up 2 goals in a 2 minute span to watch the cup go to Chicago has zero to do with offense and 100% to do with choking on D and in net.

once again not system but execution.

 

[LSCII]

and giving up 2 goals in a 2 minute span to watch the cup go to Chicago has zero to do with offense and 100% to do with choking on D and in net.

once again not system but execution.

When things stopped working in that series, did Claude make any adjustments?

 

[LSCII]

Lonnie, no joke. If the style of play the GM wants is (for whatever reason) impossible for Claude to implement, I want him gone too. I'm not as sure as you that this is the case, or that management is willing to make the sacrifices to implement the style despite growing pains (I am sure that is what happened in the fall). However, if Claude truly is the impediment, then he has to go.

We may disagree on everything, on this question, to paraphrase a great hockey sage, it " may be the first time you've answered honestly".

Well done!

I'm not sure he's an impediment, just more of a headstrong guy with his own beliefs on how the game should be played. Taking Sweeney at face value (which isn't a stretch to say it's at least somewhat dubious), the style he wants to play is the polar opposite of how Julien likes to play. Those are in conflict, and something has to give. I can't see it being Sweeney, since he's only been here less than a year.

 

[jgatie]

Kessel's first two years were bad in that aspect IMO but I think he did a lot better in his final year here. I understand the trading him if that's what they felt, but they never got anyone to replace him in 09-10. Team was behind the eight ball all year it seemed.

If "a lot better" for Kessel means he saw more of the defensive zone than a pre-2015-16 Ovechkin or a prime Pavel Bure, then we agree. But this is a guy who refused to execute a breakout play in Toronto because it required him to possibly take a hit. Flat out told the Asst. Coach "I'm not doing it." That's no puck battler or 200 ft. player. Aaron Ward's assessment of Kessel is accurate then, now, and the future - "If the rinks were round, he'd be a perfect player."

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

But I don't. I'm certainly critical of him and I feel like most of it is well deserved. I'm also critical of Neely. And of Sweeney. And I was very critical of Chia. And I also get that the players shoulder a large part of the blame because they're the guys who came out in the last game and rolled over with zero effort.

Make no mistakes. This blame pie has plenty of pieces to go around and nobody in this organization is devoid of blame for what's happened the last 2 seasons. It's unacceptable.

Last year, Chia got fired because of it and rightly so. Players they felt didn't put in the effort or make the strides they wanted got moved out of here and rightly so. This year, they had a repeat of that same collapse. They fired the last GM. They moved players from the core. Yet it happened again. Sorry, but now because of that epic bed ********, Claude is on the hook. I also assume we're going to see more players shipped out over the summer as well. If they miss again next year, I'd expect Neely and Sweeney to be on the block. This year though, it's simply Claude's time to go. If Sweeney and Neely don't do something, what kind of message does that send to the players?

To quote a hockey sage, this is the 2nd time you've answered honestly!

I kid, of course.

This is very well-stated.

 

[Scotto74]

When things stopped working in that series, did Claude make any adjustments?

already said I would like to see adjustments just not putting a guy who had zero playoff goals into the spot of your 3rd highest goal scorer. We are discussing a specific example you brought up that I said was a bad one don't try for your normal spin job into another topic here.

 

[jgatie]

Well done!

I'm not sure he's an impediment, just more of a headstrong guy with his own beliefs on how the game should be played. Taking Sweeney at face value (which isn't a stretch to say it's at least somewhat dubious), the style he wants to play is the polar opposite of how Julien likes to play. Those are in conflict, and something has to give. I can't see it being Sweeney, since he's only been here less than a year.

I don't know. Sweeney obviously caved this fall, or he and Claude mutually agreed to do it Claude's way because the horses weren't there and he couldn't see going full rebuild. Either way, if that type of game is truly what Neely/Sweeney want and Claude balks, he's gone. I'm just not convinced Claude is the one who balks.

 

[LouJersey]

I don't know. Sweeney obviously caved this fall, or he and Claude mutually agreed to do it Claude's way because the horses weren't there and he couldn't see going full rebuild. Either way, if that type of game is truly what Neely/Sweeney want and Claude balks, he's gone. I'm just not convinced Claude is the one who balks.

Pretty sure Sweeney likes Claude. Also pretty sure if Sweeney were the GM at the time Seguin would have still been here. Sweeney has brains and is a great hockey guy IMO. I love Cam as a player, but Sweeney is by far the better executive / judge of talent IMO.

 

[Number8]

Claude def goes down with the titanic..I've never seen a coach so stubborn to in game change. Sad part is he expects the same loyalty back from his players which they haven't given him back. I hear how everyone loves him that plays for him but they put in that craptastic effort? He deserved better from them IMO.

Regardless of where anyone comes down on the Coach, Management, or Ownership I hope we can at least all agree on this! IMO no truer words have been spoken since the great collapse.

Many people have disagreed with Claude's style, but I think there are some things that are undeniable:

1) He's a good man -- I've seen nothing to suggest that anyone has suggested otherwise.

2) He's a good coach -- maybe not for every team or every scenario but show me a coach that is perfect for all scenarios and teams and I'll show you a pink unicorn.

Regardless of the reasons or logic, the players were basically given a vote of confidence two years in a row at the TDL. They were given an opportunity to show that they were capable of proving the naysayers wrong. The didn't.

Maybe that's in part due to coaching -- but let's be honest. If professional athletes can't find it within themselves to grab a playoff spot when it's already in hand they need to question their commitment.

IMO the performance against CAR, NJ, and OTT (six points that were easily achievable) was lacking. They generally got outplayed by teams already on the outside looking in.

If teams with nothing to play for but pride and jobs next year can deliver the goods, what does it say about players who have pride, jobs, AND playoffs to play for somehow not delivering the willingness to give it all and get wins -- through talent, effort, plain refusal to lose or ideally a combination of all three.

However this all plays out, the players let the Coach down. Maybe that's not the only obstacle we faced but it was the only one in their control and it was lacking.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

When things stopped working in that series, did Claude make any adjustments?

he did put Seguin with Paille which arguably won them at least one game.

I do get what you're saying though. At some point they probably should have put Seguin back with Bergeron & Marchand but I can also see why he didn't think Seguin had earned it.

By game 6, though, Claude was really out of options. Bergeron was dead on his feet, Horton sucked in the finals b/c his shoulder was injured, Soderberg was a complete unknown at the NHL level. Other than Seguin, you had Kelly, Paille and Daugavins as depth guys so his actual options to shake up the top 6 were very limited.

 

[Spanky185]

@GlobeKPD: Bruins first presser:
Tomorrow (Thurs), 10 a.m. GM Don Sweeney and coach Claude Julien.

Answers tomorrow I guess

 

[Estlin]

@GlobeKPD: Bruins first presser:
Tomorrow (Thurs), 10 a.m. GM Don Sweeney and coach Claude Julien.

Answers tomorrow I guess

If Julien is participating, then does that mean he's coming back next season?

 

[TheBigZ]

If Julien is participating, then does that mean he's coming back next season?

Thats what I would gather from it.

 

[sleepyh]

Cripes

 

[mikelvl]

Jacobs and Neely to speak next week. I wouldn't put it past them to can Claude between tomorrow after the press conference and next week. That's what they did with Chia Pet.

 

[TheBigZ]

If this doesn't get a coach fired, HE WILL NEVER BE FIRED. How much worse would things have to get for him to get fired, and are the Bruins really willing to take that risk?

 

[PlayMakers]

@GlobeKPD: Bruins first presser:
Tomorrow (Thurs), 10 a.m. GM Don Sweeney and coach Claude Julien.

Answers tomorrow I guess

If Julien is participating, then does that mean he's coming back next season?

Thats what I would gather from it.