Management Claude Julien - Mod Warning post 643

[njbruin*]

I am pretty sure that you will get that on all NHL teams, these guys have pride and want to play. I will critisize Claude, but not to the extent that I want him gone. So you think all these players quit on Claude in Ottawa and it has nothing to do with the lack of talent on the team?

Did the lack of talent prevent them from beating the Wings or get them within 1 point of the playoffs. That same lack of talent only reared its ugly head in important losses ?

Don't bother responding I know the Claude zealots answer -the only reason they got that far was due to Claude .

 

[DNE3]

So you don't have any examples of "star offensive players" that Claude has mishandled other than possibly Seguin.
Thanks for the clarification.

Kessel, Seguin. That's a clarify example.

 

[LSCII]

I'll bring this to the conversation, Lonnie: How can you criticize someone for rewriting history to suit a narrative when it is one of your go to tools for debate? For instance, you oft stated nobody complained about Kessel's game until after his trade, and nobody said anything about Seguin's off-ice antics until after his trade, two demonstrably false statements that you have been corrected countless times.

The guy asked what star player has Julien not handled correctly. I pointed out Marchand getting no PP TOI with the first team PP Unit, which fits the category, and you don't say anything. You gloss over it because you know it's a valid criticism. You have no argument for that example, so you try to degrade the conversation into your usual condescending BS routine. That's why I said you bring zero value to the discussion. You're so biased towards absolving Claude of any wrong doing that you lack objectivity, to the point where it's laughable.

 

[jgatie]

whats nauseating is the same 5-7 posters calling for his head because he hates offense and they are sick of low scoring snoozefests yet when the real facts are posted they go silent and wait for another little thing to jump on like he hates star players.

In the last thread, the 5th in goals for stat was posted, and one of the 5-7 said that it was only because of the great PP at the beginning of the year. When it was pointed out that they were also 5th in even strength goals for . . . <crickets>

That's all I had to see to know what this thread is all about.

 

[hemispheres]

Did the lack of talent prevent them from beating the Wings or get them within 1 point of the playoffs. That same lack of talent only reared its ugly head in important losses ?

Don't bother responding I know the Claude zealots answer -the only reason they got that far was due to Claude .

Talking about the same Wings team that lost the next game and Howard had a carrer high 17 saves? The Wings pretty much Suck.

 

[LSCII]

whats nauseating is the same 5-7 posters calling for his head because he hates offense and they are sick of low scoring snoozefests yet when the real facts are posted they go silent and wait for another little thing to jump on like he hates star players.


I took a vacation from this place and come back to the same 5-7 people saying the same untrue things with zero and I mean ZERO stats or facts to back it up.

Toss me some stats that back up the lower scoring snoozefests we have watched over the years of CJ coaching I dare you. and I will come back with more then double the stats to prove it the other way with large sample sizes instead of your one offs you use to back up what you want.

And show me one poster that is not willing to put valid criticism on CJ because thats a flat out lie just like the rest of what you are saying. CJ has warts and does things I don't agree with but the blanket statements about his hating offense, sucks at handling offensive stars and coaches a bunch of low scoring snoozefests is a bunch of Bull.

I don't hate Claude at all. I just don't think he's the right guy for the rebuild at hand. I also thought they should have moved on from him last year because of the same rebuild. I think he delayed it by a year and they'd have been further along if they'd brought in someone other than Claude for this past season.

In terms of scoring, are you really trying to argue that the Bruins under Julien aren't a defensive team? Because that's pretty silly, IMO. You can argue about goals for and goal differentials all you want, the fact is Claude employs a defense first system.

Finally, I have to show you a poster that is unwilling to fairly criticize Julien in a thread that is filled with them? Really? Seriously??? Look at the last few posts. I pointed out Marchand getting stiffed on PP TOI despite being the best scorer, and there are not one, but two posters dismissing it and ignoring it. So do you really, really need me to show you that?

 

[jgatie]

The guy asked what star player has Julien not handled correctly. I pointed out Marchand getting no PP TOI with the first team PP Unit, which fits the category, and you don't say anything. You gloss over it because you know it's a valid criticism. You have no argument for that example, so you try to degrade the conversation into your usual condescending BS routine. That's why I said you bring zero value to the discussion. You're so biased towards absolving Claude of any wrong doing that you lack objectivity, to the point where it's laughable.

Guess what Lonnie? I have absolutely no idea why Marchand was not on the #1 PP. It is a great question and probably not one Claude can answer to my or anyone else's satisfaction. The guy has flaws, and some of his moves are head scratchers. In other words, on this point, we agree.

Still doesn't take away from the point that it is the ultimate in hypocrisy for the All-Time Champion HF Bruins Forum History Rewriter to criticize someone for rewriting history. And I'll call you out on that point every time. So live with it, because God knows you earned it.

 

[LouJersey]

All these high scoring teams and Marchand the superstar and we score THREE GOALS COMBINED vs the Devils, Canes and Sens?

 

[LouJersey]

In the last thread, the 5th in goals for stat was posted, and one of the 5-7 said that it was only because of the great PP at the beginning of the year. When it was pointed out that they were also 5th in even strength goals for . . . <crickets>

That's all I had to see to know what this thread is all about.

Again all this means what? Moral victories? I'd love Claude to be around forever, but it's not how hockey or any sport works these days.

 

[LouJersey]

Guess what Lonnie? I have absolutely no idea why Marchand was not on the #1 PP. It is a great question and probably not one Claude can answer to my or anyone else's satisfaction. The guy has flaws, and some of his moves are head scratchers. In other words, on this point, we agree.

Still doesn't take away from the point that it is the ultimate in hypocrisy for the All-Time Champion HF Bruins Forum History Rewriter to criticize someone for rewriting history. And I'll call you out on that point every time. So live with it, because God knows you earned it.

Remember as well our top goal scorer wasn't even used in the biggest shoot out of the season.

Claude is great, but has a heck of a lot of WTF moments IMO..

 

[EverettMike]

Last year Claude had a worse year than Chia, Chia got fired.

This year Claude had a better season than SweeNeely, Claude will probably get fired.

Sports are weird.

 

[jgatie]

Kessel, Seguin. That's a clarify example.

I already addressed these, as well as Hamilton, immediately after the original post.

Please try to keep up.

 

[LSCII]

One other thing about goal scoring. During their epic collapse again this year (basically the last 12 games), they scored 27 goals. That's not all that great, but when you also look at how many games they scored 2 goals or less, it's staggering the number was even that high. In 8 out of those 12 games, they scored 2 goals or less. In the remaining 4 games, they scored 18 goals. Basically, they filled the net up to a ridiculous number for a small sample of games, then barely scored in the majority of the games.

 

[chrisab123]

Kessel, Seguin. That's a clarify example.

Did he really mishandle Kessel though? I mean Kessel was and is known as a 1 way type player. He doesn't do any defensive work what so ever. Just pass him the puck and shoot. Claude's system is not a fit for that type of player. Seguin was more or less on managements head, not Claude. I'm sure that if Claude still had Seguin he would be the best player on the ice. Maybe a few less goals scored but he would still have become a dynamic player.

That being said I do not think Claude is the problem here at all. He made one really big error in a shoot out last week. It happens. That isn't the reason why this team came up short. They came up short because the players failed each other and their coach. Everyone from Krecji to Rask deserves a certain amount of blame. Other than Marchand and Bergy it seemed like this team gave up after that Panthers game. For the people who want him out, who would you like to see replace him? Because you're honestly going to be left with either Oates who couldn't win in Washington and freaking Milbury who couldn't win with Neely Bourque etc...

Or maybe some other Bruins alumni who has never coached before.

 

[jgatie]

Again all this means what? Moral victories? I'd love Claude to be around forever, but it's not how hockey or any sport works these days.

What does it mean? It means I was offering proof to what Scotto said:

5-7 posters calling for his head because he hates offense and they are sick of low scoring snoozefests yet when the real facts are posted they go silent and wait for another little thing to jump on like he hates star players.

I didn't think I was being obtuse.

 

[LSCII]

Guess what Lonnie? I have absolutely no idea why Marchand was not on the #1 PP. It is a great question and probably not one Claude can answer to my or anyone else's satisfaction. The guy has flaws, and some of his moves are head scratchers. In other words, on this point, we agree.

Still doesn't take away from the point that it is the ultimate in hypocrisy for the All-Time Champion HF Bruins Forum History Rewriter to criticize someone for rewriting history. And I'll call you out on that point every time. So live with it, because God knows you earned it.

HEY!! First time you answered the question honestly!! Color me surprised.

The rest of your post? Seems like you're taking this discussion a little too seriously. You may want to take a few deep breaths and calm down some.

 

[Scotto74]

I don't hate Claude at all. I just don't think he's the right guy for the rebuild at hand. I also thought they should have moved on from him last year because of the same rebuild. I think he delayed it by a year and they'd have been further along if they'd brought in someone other than Claude for this past season.

In terms of scoring, are you really trying to argue that the Bruins under Julien aren't a defensive team? Because that's pretty silly, IMO. You can argue about goals for and goal differentials all you want, the fact is Claude employs a defense first system.

Finally, I have to show you a poster that is unwilling to fairly criticize Julien in a thread that is filled with them? Really? Seriously??? Look at the last few posts. I pointed out Marchand getting stiffed on PP TOI despite being the best scorer, and there are not one, but two posters dismissing it and ignoring it. So do you really, really need me to show you that?

so you have to be one or the other Defensive or offensive now thats pretty silly? really cuz i posted the stats to prove that statement 100% wrong you just ignore it.

in your opinion you can argue about goals for or against but he is still defense first. Who gives a **** if offense is the last priority if you still the best at it what does that even mean?

Yes show me a poster that will not criticize Julien. People have different opinions then you Lonnie on different points. Yes someone might not agree with your point on Marchand (that is one I actually agree with you on for the record) but he may agree that CJ was an idiot for putting Campbell out as the extra attacker which is also criticizing CJ just on a different topic.

You cry this nonsense that people wont criticize him whenever someone fails to jump on your bandwagon with the pitchforks which for some reason you are always driving no matter who its about, Chia, Sweeney, Cam, CJ whoever it is your the driver with pitchfork in hand. Maybe if you were more balanced in your approach and give credit where do and criticize where do you would get more support.

CJ putting the 4th line out at the end of the game drives me nuts. Doesn't mean he sucks as a coach.

Hell not having marchand on the shootout what the hell is he thinking.

but you know what I rather have CJ with his warts like that instead of a coach that will put Marchand on the shootout but has not idea what a system is and puts us in the bottom 10 of the NHL year after year in goals for and against and differential.

I care about results and CJ gets them. You car about nitpicky little items that in the overall mean jack squat.

 

[Scotto74]

All these high scoring teams and Marchand the superstar and we score THREE GOALS COMBINED vs the Devils, Canes and Sens?

Definition of small sample size above

 

[DNE3]

I already addressed these, as well as Hamilton, immediately after the original post.
Please try to keep up.

Never addressed directly to me. I answered to specific post, with direct answer. The history lesson is yours alone.

 

[Scotto74]

Again all this means what? Moral victories? I'd love Claude to be around forever, but it's not how hockey or any sport works these days.

nope what it means is your lying through your teeth when you call out his low scoring snoozefest of a coaching style. Nothing at all about moral victories here.

 

[hemispheres]

Again all this means what? Moral victories? I'd love Claude to be around forever, but it's not how hockey or any sport works these days.

Yes you are right, when a coach has a talented team and can't get the most out of it he should get canned. Give him crap and the opposite should be true when he got the most out of said team.

This defensive corps this year was absolute crap and no one can blame Julien for that.

 

[njbruin*]

Bruins has 3 wins this season when trailing after 2 periods.

If the offense was so prolific as those seem to claim , wouldn't you expect that number to be much higher. The Bruins racked up goals when they were comfortably ahead in games but when they needed offense they couldn't produce. To me stats don't prove crap w/o looking at the situational breakdowns.

Sure the Bruins were top 5 in goals scored , but in what situations did they score them.

 

[jgatie]

HEY!! First time you answered the question honestly!! Color me surprised.

The rest of your post? Seems like you're taking this discussion a little too seriously. You may want to take a few deep breaths and calm down some.

I always answer honestly, Lonnie. The fact that you identify a post where I agree with you as the first time I've been honest says something about you, not me.

As to the rest, there's a difference between taking something a little too seriously and simply calling out rank hypocrisy. But I understand why you would want to curtail the latter with accusations of the former.

 

[LouJersey]

41 homes games this year 110 goals in 41 home games.

0 goals- 1
1 goal- 6
2 goals- 15
3 goals-9
4 goals- 6
5 goals-2
6 goals-1
7 goals-1

76% of their games 3 or less goals scored
54% of their games 2 or less goals scored
24% of their games 4 or more goals scored

Boring. Guess it's today's NHL

 

[hemispheres]

One other thing about goal scoring. During their epic collapse again this year (basically the last 12 games), they scored 27 goals. That's not all that great, but when you also look at how many games they scored 2 goals or less, it's staggering the number was even that high. In 8 out of those 12 games, they scored 2 goals or less. In the remaining 4 games, they scored 18 goals. Basically, they filled the net up to a ridiculous number for a small sample of games, then barely scored in the majority of the games.

I suppose it was Claudes fault that all the two and three ones that either missed the net or hit the goalie in the chest..