Value of: Claude Giroux to Calgary

[1865]

Would replacing the two picks with Pelletier be sufficient?

You're dealing with Chuck Fletcher here. Flirt with him a little and HE will add a first.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Whoever gets G sees their 1st suddenly become a 25+ pick, it's not that valuable friend.

Pretty massive exaggeration, Giroux doesn't instantly render Eichel, MacKinnon, McDavid, and Draisaitl useless. He is a good player no doubt but adding him doesnt by any means win a team a division or get them to the conference finals

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I disagree with you. I think Gaudreau and Mangiapane get 9m and 6m respectively. Marner is at 10.9, Panarin at 11M. Gaudreau is only slightly worse than those players. Mangiapane is almost a lock to score more than 30 this year. 6M is likely a starting point for him. You could be correct on Kylington. He's a very hard player to comp. He's worth 5.5 this season, but his lack of past success may keep his number down somewhat.

Lucic won't waive for Seattle. 0 chance of that. He likes Calgary and wants to win. If you could find a team competing that's a budget team then maybe. Seattle is a bad hockey team.

Gaudreau is a better player than Marner, and no worse than Panarin.

Since being moved away from Monahan, Gaudreau has 52 points in 44 games (42 ES points), to go along with a +20 goal differential and 57.5% CF%.

Since that point he's:
- 3rd in the league in scoring
- 2nd in ES points
- 2nd in 5v5 points
- 1st in 5v5 primary points
- 1st in 5v5 primary points/60

This is 5v5 primary scoring since 4/9/2021:



He's scoring at a 97 point pace while playing excellent two way hockey under Darryl Sutter. I think it's pretty unreasonable to expect Marner, or even Panarin to do any better (if at all).

 

[ponder719]

Pretty massive exaggeration, Giroux doesn't instantly render Eichel, MacKinnon, McDavid, and Draisaitl useless. He is a good player no doubt but adding him doesnt by any means win a team a division or get them to the conference finals

You wouldn't be just adding him to any team, though. You add a player like Giroux if you're already reasonably close to winning that division, or making that conference finals. Unless your GM's more delusional than Chuckles, if you make a move like that, you probably do make it out of the second round.

 

[Habs Halifax]

(Dec 2019) Taylor Hall was pending UFA at end of 19-20 and was traded to Arizona which returned a 1st and a few prospects, Kevin Bahl is the most noticeable of the 3 prospects the Devils received Bahl is currently on Devils roster along with the 1st that turned into Dawson Mercer, Nate Schnarr is with Utica.

(June 2019) Trouba to Rangers for Winnipeg’s 1st and Pionk who was only 23 at the time and was only in his 2nd season in NHL.

(September 2018) Erik Karlsson to San Jose for a 1st, two 2nd’s Josh Norris, Chris Tierney, Dylan Demelo and Balcers which Ottawa lost to waivers from San Jose.

There are other trades like this throughout history, just look up NHL trade history by team to see all trades that every team has made.

You referred to the Stone trade to Vegas.

The Knights probably would have received a 1st if they hadn’t sent Oscar Lindberg along with Brannstrom to Ottawa, if it was just Brannstrom then Ottawa could have gotten a late 1st out of the deal but Dorian is a fool and excepted Lindberg who left for the Swiss NL after the NHL season ended for Ottawa.

Lindberg is currently playing in the KHL for Moscow Dynamo.

Treliving would be foolish to trade Pelletier and a 1st for an older UFA in Giroux but as what Fletcher might be asking initially it’s probably in that ballpark, for which Calgary should rightfully decline, unless Treliving is making other moves to further improve Calgary for a serious cup run this season.

The Flames have great goaltending and a big defense with some depth, they just need a few more offensive pieces to get over the top.

Not trying to give you a hard time but I wonder how frequent it happens for a soon to be 34 year old? I think the other happens more frequently. A 1st and Grade B or a Grade A and a 2nd.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Whoever gets G sees their 1st suddenly become a 25+ pick, it's not that valuable friend.

I agree that a 20+ 1st has more of a chance to bust or disappoint than a 1-19 range pick. All I'm saying is the usual return for pending UFA's are 1st and Grade B or Grade A and 2nd and I don't see a soon to be 34 year old who is a pending UFA getting both a Grade A and 1st. Maybe on a sign trade it's possible

 

[1865]

I agree that a 20+ 1st has more of a chance to bust or disappoint than a 1-19 range pick. All I'm saying is the usual return for pending UFA's are 1st and Grade B or Grade A and 2nd and I don't see a soon to be 34 year old who is a pending UFA getting both a Grade A and 1st. Maybe on a sign trade it's possible

When was the last time someone of G's quality was on the rental market?

 

[Habs Halifax]

When was the last time someone of G's quality was on the rental market?

Stone and he was young and it was a sign/trade. Giroux is good but I get the sense you think he is a star?

 

[1865]

Stone and he was young and it was a sign/trade. Giroux is good but I get the sense you think he is a star?

Why wouldn't i?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why wouldn't i?

Fringe star or top line talent is what I would say. The return would be solid but not sure it's both a 1st and a Grade A prospect. It's not impossible though

 

[Accelleratii]

I’d say a late 1st.

Utterly laughable.

Remember Mantha fetched a 1st, 2nd and two NHL players.

Asking price should be a 1st, 2nd and A-list prospect, minimum.

 

[Volica]

Utterly laughable.

Remember Mantha fetched a 1st, 2nd and two NHL players.

Asking price should be a 1st, 2nd and A-list prospect, minimum.

Mantha was 26 with 4 years left on his deal.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

He would be best in Colorado.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He would be best in Colorado.

Go see what the Avs say if the Flyers ask for a 1st and Grade A prospect for Giroux as a pending UFA?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You wouldn't be just adding him to any team, though. You add a player like Giroux if you're already reasonably close to winning that division, or making that conference finals. Unless your GM's more delusional than Chuckles, if you make a move like that, you probably do make it out of the second round.

Well then your first statement was very poorly worded because you implied Giroux wpuld make the team a 25+ pick, not that thry already were

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

When was the last time someone of G's quality was on the rental market?

Calgary did something not all that different in the last decade. If you want to copy the Iginla trade as a base go ahead

 

[ponder719]

Well then your first statement was very poorly worded because you implied Giroux wpuld make the team a 25+ pick, not that thry already were

My first statement was nothing of the sort, since you were quoting someone else. That said, teams on the playoff bubble, or outside it, aren't going to be sniffing around Giroux at this point, it would be foolish to do so. At an absolute floor, you're looking at teams that know they're in the playoffs, and think they can make a run. Maybe the team's not a sure-shot 25+ pick right now, but they're comfortably somewhere in the 20s. It takes very little imagination to predict that adding a player of Giroux's caliber to (roughly) the 10th best team in the league is likely enough to make them a top 5-7 team in the league, and that's all the difference it takes to go from the 22nd pick to 25+.

Ultimately, the point here is that whatever first the Flyers would be acquiring in a Giroux trade isn't going to be a high one, so more than just a first will be needed (presuming, as we pretty much have to in these conversations, that Giroux will waive his NMC.) What additional value that is depends on other circumstances, but I'm fairly comfortable saying there will be more than just a first round pick coming to Philly.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

My first statement was nothing of the sort, since you were quoting someone else. That said, teams on the playoff bubble, or outside it, aren't going to be sniffing around Giroux at this point, it would be foolish to do so. At an absolute floor, you're looking at teams that know they're in the playoffs, and think they can make a run. Maybe the team's not a sure-shot 25+ pick right now, but they're comfortably somewhere in the 20s. It takes very little imagination to predict that adding a player of Giroux's caliber to (roughly) the 10th best team in the league is likely enough to make them a top 5-7 team in the league, and that's all the difference it takes to go from the 22nd pick to 25+.

Ultimately, the point here is that whatever first the Flyers would be acquiring in a Giroux trade isn't going to be a high one, so more than just a first will be needed (presuming, as we pretty much have to in these conversations, that Giroux will waive his NMC.) What additional value that is depends on other circumstances, but I'm fairly comfortable saying there will be more than just a first round pick coming to Philly.

Ah fair enoigh, different user I quoted

 

[1865]

Let’s just leave this until the TDL I guess. One side will be right but it’ll save months of tedious point scoring.

 

[JRichard]

Only 1 pt but huge game tonight +5, lots of great plays. Teams will be calling in February. Not available until then is my guess. Lots of hockey left

 

[StephenPeat]

Utterly laughable.

Remember Mantha fetched a 1st, 2nd and two NHL players.

Asking price should be a 1st, 2nd and A-list prospect, minimum.

I’m not sure what’s stupider, your evaluation of Mantha’s value which completely ignores the Salary Cap aspect that was Huge from Washington’s end AND the fact Mantha had term. Or your valuation of Giroux which is a fantastic argument for never huffing glue.

 

[ponder719]

Only 1 pt but huge game tonight +5, lots of great plays. Teams will be calling in February. Not available until then is my guess. Lots of hockey left

Yeah, it was pointed out that G's got about 30 games to go to hit 1,000 in O&B. He's already 2nd all-time on that list (and soon to be 2nd all-time in points), but IIRC he'll get to 1K with some time to go before the trade deadline. He may want that milestone before being moved, if indeed he's willing to accept a trade at all.

 

[zizbuka]

I’m not sure what’s stupider, your evaluation of Mantha’s value which completely ignores the Salary Cap aspect that was Huge from Washington’s end AND the fact Mantha had term. Or your valuation of Giroux which is a fantastic argument for never huffing glue.

Giroux is a potential HOFer, great all around player. Mantha is big, but otherwise slightly above average. But hey, everyone who doesn't agree with you is just huffing glue.

 

[StephenPeat]

Giroux is a potential HOFer, great all around player. Mantha is big, but otherwise slightly above average. But hey, everyone who doesn't agree with you is just huffing glue.

Mantha signed the contract at 26 and the trade was for Four Seasons of Mantha’s prime. Giroux is 33 and his best seasons are most assuredly behind him. He’s not signed next season, he’s a pending Unrestricted Free Agent. If you want to try and rationalize any comparison between these two, I’m sorry that’s stupid and entirely on you. It’s inarguable the value of a 26-yr old signed for four (4) more seasons is higher than a 33-yr old signed for a couple months, it’s not rocket surgery.

Do you need me to explain anything else simple to you? Put the glue down and take a lap.

 

[zizbuka]

Mantha signed the contract at 26 and the trade was for Four Seasons of Mantha’s prime. Giroux is 33 and his best seasons are most assuredly behind him. He’s not signed next season, he’s a pending Unrestricted Free Agent. If you want to try and rationalize any comparison between these two, I’m sorry that’s stupid and entirely on you. It’s inarguable the value of a 26-yr old signed for four (4) more seasons is higher than a 33-yr old signed for a couple months, it’s not rocket surgery.

Do you need me to explain anything else simple to you? Put the glue down and take a lap.

You have a very high opinion of yourself. This is a thread about a team that wants to make a run, Giroux can help with that goal. It's that simple. But you're just hiding your weak arguments behind insults.