Value of: Claude Giroux to Calgary

[Double Dion]

Eichel should’ve gotten more…flyers don’t have to accept less because sabres didn’t get more tf

Eichel got what the market would bear. I think Giroux will go for a 1st and a lower end prospect.

 

[Double Dion]

Well there goes all of your credibility. Hall can't hold Giroux's jock.

Hall has a Hart trophy. Giroux hasn't scored 60 points in 4 years now. Let's not pretend they're all that different.

 

[C0DITH]

Hall has a Hart trophy. Giroux hasn't scored 60 points in 4 years now. Let's not pretend they're all that different.

You high? COVID seasons not happen?

He paced 64 last year
62 Year before.

Pacing 72 this year.

4 years ago 85 / 5 years ago 102

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Would replacing the two picks with Pelletier be sufficient?

Not for Calgary, do you seriously value Pelletier as a late 1st and a 4th right now?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Not for Calgary, do you seriously value Pelletier as a late 1st and a 4th right now?

No, I was trying to add value to balance it out.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

No, I was trying to add value to balance it out.

Balance what out? Pelletier is already lose to Giroux's trade value by himself

 

[Double Dion]

You high? COVID seasons not happen?

He paced 64 last year
62 Year before.

Pacing 72 this year.

4 years ago 85 / 5 years ago 102

No he hasn't scored 60 points in 4 years. Pace doesn't equal totals. Giroux is a good player. He's not worth an Eichel return for 25 games.

Iginla returned a late 1st. He was a far better player than Giroux, but like him was in his 30s and only a rental. We're talking a guy who was coming off his 12th straight 30 goal season. Giroux has had one in his entire career.

 

[JRichard]

Retention is not an issue here. Philly gladly pay max (50%?) if they like the return. They are not looking for 8 mil coming back.

Since most if not all legit contenders have little cap space, i guess there is an expiring contract coming back along with a young roster player not killing it yet in the NHL but with good jr/ncaa/shl pedigree.
Giroux will fetch more than a late 1st, especially on trade deadline day. No sign of slowing down.
Would be a huge upgrade for Cgy (and others) at lw.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Balance what out? Pelletier is already lose to Giroux's trade value by himself

Yeah but Calgary also gets rid of a bad contract

 

[Double Dion]

Any opinions from Flyers fans on the below?

Monahan @ ~6.4M
2021 1st
2021 4th

for

Giroux @ ~6.4M (23% retained)

I posted it earlier in the thread and Flames fans seemed okay with it, but didn't get any feedback from Flyers fans?

I'd do that. I consider Monahan to be negative value at this point (less bad than a 1st to dump, but more than a 2nd). I think Giroux is worth a 1st and a poor prospect.

 

[CraigsList]

Would replacing the two picks with Pelletier be sufficient?

We’re not moving Pelletier

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I don't think a 33 year old Giroux as a pending UFA gets both a Grade A and a 1st. Stone in a sign/trade got Brannstrom and a 2nd. If you dissagree, can you show a few examples were a pending UFA got both a Grade A and a 1st? I'm curious to see how often that happens

(Dec 2019) Taylor Hall was pending UFA at end of 19-20 and was traded to Arizona which returned a 1st and a few prospects, Kevin Bahl is the most noticeable of the 3 prospects the Devils received Bahl is currently on Devils roster along with the 1st that turned into Dawson Mercer, Nate Schnarr is with Utica.

(June 2019) Trouba to Rangers for Winnipeg’s 1st and Pionk who was only 23 at the time and was only in his 2nd season in NHL.

(September 2018) Erik Karlsson to San Jose for a 1st, two 2nd’s Josh Norris, Chris Tierney, Dylan Demelo and Balcers which Ottawa lost to waivers from San Jose.

There are other trades like this throughout history, just look up NHL trade history by team to see all trades that every team has made.

You referred to the Stone trade to Vegas.

The Knights probably would have received a 1st if they hadn’t sent Oscar Lindberg along with Brannstrom to Ottawa, if it was just Brannstrom then Ottawa could have gotten a late 1st out of the deal but Dorian is a fool and excepted Lindberg who left for the Swiss NL after the NHL season ended for Ottawa.

Lindberg is currently playing in the KHL for Moscow Dynamo.

Treliving would be foolish to trade Pelletier and a 1st for an older UFA in Giroux but as what Fletcher might be asking initially it’s probably in that ballpark, for which Calgary should rightfully decline, unless Treliving is making other moves to further improve Calgary for a serious cup run this season.

The Flames have great goaltending and a big defense with some depth, they just need a few more offensive pieces to get over the top.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

We’re not moving Pelletier

Would you move Pelletier with only Zadorov being added for cap purposes in exchange for Giroux retained at 50 percent?

 

[Double Dion]

Would you move Pelletier with only Zadorov being added for cap purposes in exchange for Giroux retained at 50 percent?

I'd consider it. The tough part is Pelletier is probably our only prospect ready for a top 9 role next year. I really think we will be forced to trade Tkachuk this offseason. Gaudreau is too important to our offense to lose.

I do hope Treliving bargain shops though. There are a lot of rentals available this TDL. I think the most cost effective option given our needs would be Pavelski. He'd likely be a lot cheaper to acquire than Giroux or Hertl and might even be the better fit.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I'd consider it. The tough part is Pelletier is probably our only prospect ready for a top 9 role next year. I really think we will be forced to trade Tkachuk this offseason. Gaudreau is too important to our offense to lose.

I do hope Treliving bargain shops though. There are a lot of rentals available this TDL. I think the most cost effective option given our needs would be Pavelski. He'd likely be a lot cheaper to acquire than Giroux or Hertl and might even be the better fit.

I highly doubt we are forced to trade Tkachuk, we have over 30M cap space to work with next season and contracts like Lucic's become very moveable after his bonus

 

[Double Dion]

I highly doubt we are forced to trade Tkachuk, we have over 30M cap space to work with next season and contracts like Lucic's become very moveable after his bonus

We do have 30M in space. We also have 6 forwards signed and 3 defensemen. Mangiapane will be 6ish, Gaudreau 9ish, Tkachuk 9ish. Kylington 4ish. Now we have 2M in cap space for 4 more forwards and 3 more defensemen.

The teams you could trade Lucic to he won't waive for IMO.

It leaves the option of attaching a pick to Monahan and going with 7 league minimum guys or trading Tkachuk.

 

[Oddbob]

A couple of Flyer fans in here are going to be disappointed with the potential return. Prices are always lower than you think or hope for. Giroux is still pretty good, but he is a 34 year old (soon) pending UFA, and not every contender has cap space to make said move even at 50% retention. A late 1st and B prospect is my guess. Calgary for sure isn't trading Monahan, a 1st and a 4th for a rental player for a couple months. Monahan is still a solid NHL player, and with a change of scenery his offence/game could return.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

We do have 30M in space. We also have 6 forwards signed and 3 defensemen. Mangiapane will be 6ish, Gaudreau 9ish, Tkachuk 9ish. Kylington 4ish. Now we have 2M in cap space for 4 more forwards and 3 more defensemen.

The teams you could trade Lucic to he won't waive for IMO.

It leaves the option of attaching a pick to Monahan and going with 7 league minimum guys or trading Tkachuk.

Very pessimistic POV, Mange wont geat more than Buchnevich (probably about the same as Turbo), Gaudreau likely doesnt get above 8.5M unless he goes elsewhere, Tkachuk might get 9. Kylington probably gets closer to what Weegar got. With zero moves thats 5M cap for 5 forwards and 2 defensemen.

Lucic likely wouldn't block a trade to Seattle and it's not like players going into their last year dont waive to rebuilding teams. Stralman didn't block a trade to Arizona for example

 

[Double Dion]

Very pessimistic POV, Mange wont geat more than Buchnevich (probably about the same as Turbo), Gaudreau likely doesnt get above 8.5M unless he goes elsewhere, Tkachuk might get 9. Kylington probably gets closer to what Weegar got. With zero moves thats 5M cap for 5 forwards and 2 defensemen.

Lucic likely wouldn't block a trade to Seattle and it's not like players going into their last year dont waive to rebuilding teams. Stralman didn't block a trade to Arizona for example

I disagree with you. I think Gaudreau and Mangiapane get 9m and 6m respectively. Marner is at 10.9, Panarin at 11M. Gaudreau is only slightly worse than those players. Mangiapane is almost a lock to score more than 30 this year. 6M is likely a starting point for him. You could be correct on Kylington. He's a very hard player to comp. He's worth 5.5 this season, but his lack of past success may keep his number down somewhat.

Lucic won't waive for Seattle. 0 chance of that. He likes Calgary and wants to win. If you could find a team competing that's a budget team then maybe. Seattle is a bad hockey team.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Hall has a Hart trophy. Giroux hasn't scored 60 points in 4 years now. Let's not pretend they're all that different.

Probably should've been Giroux's Hart that year, funny enough.

Giroux led the league in scoring, yet somehow got a 4th place finish.

 

[ponder719]

A couple of Flyer fans in here are going to be disappointed with the potential return.

Of course we will; Chuck Fletcher’s making the deal. That said, I genuinely believe Giroux is the best rental that’s been put on the market in years (if, in fact, he goes on the market), and if he’s willing to waive his NMC unconditionally, he should by rights bring back more than some in here are thinking. As with most things in life, the actual answer will be somewhere in the middle (except, again, that Chuck Fletcher will be involved, so “the middle” will literally be a Jimmy Eat World CD.)

 

[Double Dion]

Probably should've been Giroux's Hart that year, funny enough.

Giroux led the league in scoring, yet somehow got a 4th place finish.

Could have something to do with Hall playing with 3rd liners and Giroux playing with excellent linemates.

Not trying to denigrate Giroux here. Just Hall undeniably had the better season. He took one of the worst rosters in the league to the playoffs pretty well single handedly.

 

[blankall]

I disagree with you. I think Gaudreau and Mangiapane get 9m and 6m respectively. Marner is at 10.9, Panarin at 11M. Gaudreau is only slightly worse than those players. Mangiapane is almost a lock to score more than 30 this year. 6M is likely a starting point for him. You could be correct on Kylington. He's a very hard player to comp. He's worth 5.5 this season, but his lack of past success may keep his number down somewhat.

Lucic won't waive for Seattle. 0 chance of that. He likes Calgary and wants to win. If you could find a team competing that's a budget team then maybe. Seattle is a bad hockey team.

Lucic has stated he wants to be close to his family, who live in Vancouver. There's no closer place than Seattle. He also already has a cup. He also seems to like the mentor role. I definitely see him specifically choosing a trade to Seattle.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I disagree with you. I think Gaudreau and Mangiapane get 9m and 6m respectively. Marner is at 10.9, Panarin at 11M. Gaudreau is only slightly worse than those players. Mangiapane is almost a lock to score more than 30 this year. 6M is likely a starting point for him. You could be correct on Kylington. He's a very hard player to comp. He's worth 5.5 this season, but his lack of past success may keep his number down somewhat.

Lucic won't waive for Seattle. 0 chance of that. He likes Calgary and wants to win. If you could find a team competing that's a budget team then maybe. Seattle is a bad hockey team.

Marner is an anomaly in every aspect here, awful example. Panarin went to the market to get paid and that was before the flat cap which we are still in (cap going up 1M doesn't change it from being a flat cap era). Landeskog is a slightly worse player than Gaudreau and was asking for 9M on the market, instead he signed a team friendly deal to stay in Colorado and get the extra year. The situation with Gaudreau will be about the same, but have a higher number. 8-8.5M is the range Gaudreau will likely fall into at 8 years. No other team can offer that 8th year, at 8.5Mx8yr a different team would have to offer over 9.7M just to give the same amount of money.

Mangiapane scoring 30 doesnt lock him for 6M by any means, did you forget who Calgary's GM is? He is arguably the best RFA negotiator in the league.
Comparable contracts for Mangiapane at age 26:
Beauvillier: 24, paced 26 goals 49 points, strong 2-way game = 4.15M x 3 years
Konecny: 22, 22 goals 49 points, based more on potential = 5.5M x 6 years
Buchnevich: 26, paced 30 goals 73 points, strong 2-way game = 5.8M x 4 years
Bjorkstrand: 26, paced 26 goals 64 points, excellent 2-way game (on rebuilding team) = 5.4M x 5 years
Teravainen: 24, 21 goals 76 points, excellent 2-way game = 5.4M x 5 years

How do you know where Lucic will and won't waive to? He literally waived for the expansion a few months ago (to Seattle). Again I'll use Anton Stralman as an example, like Lucic he has a M-NTC and was on a highly competitive team (way more of a contender than the Flames). He did not block a trade to Arizona, a team clearly tanking with zero intention to compete for the final year of his contract. Lucic could very well be satisfied with his career next year and want to be closer to home for the majority of the season (then might get moved at the deadline for a final run). He may want to buy a retirement home down south too. You are speaking in absolutes when that is not at all the case.

 

[1865]

I don't think a 33 year old Giroux as a pending UFA gets both a Grade A and a 1st. Stone in a sign/trade got Brannstrom and a 2nd. If you dissagree, can you show a few examples were a pending UFA got both a Grade A and a 1st? I'm curious to see how often that happens

Whoever gets G sees their 1st suddenly become a 25+ pick, it's not that valuable friend.