Classic Wrestling Discussion: Part III & Wrestler Poll

[These Are The Days]

Just finished Backlash 2002. I forgot Hulk won the strap one more time. He must not hold it long because I know by Vengeance 2002 Rock, Taker and Angle are gonna have that legendary triple threat and Taker was champ going in. God I can't wait

Also I was wrong about HHH. The most unrealistic thing WWF ever did was not having him be okay with not being champion a few months. It's him losing the title with any grace and dignity whatsoever

Vince must have listened to someone's advice to make Hogan the flavor of the month because it would've meant quick money that would've been more had HHH still been champ

 

[These Are The Days]

At the time, I don't think that was his viewpoint. The plan was to have Austin as the main star of Raw, Rock as the main star of SD. They went into it treating both shows and brands as equal. Just the fact they gave the younger of the two (Rock) to SD.

But as time went on, more and more focus went to making Raw the top show/brand.

The current date of my watch through is April 22nd 2002. It's insane to think that I just watched Lesnar's first match on Raw and within 4 months Austin will refuse to put him over, Rock DOES put him over and both guys will off both shows with Brock effectively being responsible for both departures. Oh yeah and he's gonna murder Hogan on Smackdown

Paul Heyman told the story that at some point Vince was all "GAAAHHHDDDD DAMN IT PAUL THIS KID IS MONEY!!" (doing the impression of Vince himself of course) and I'm wondering at what point this happened and if he did that after watching Brock kill both Hardy's in back to back nights

 

[BruinDust]

The current date of my watch through is April 22nd 2002. It's insane to think that I just watched Lesnar's first match on Raw and within 4 months Austin will refuse to put him over, Rock DOES put him over and both guys will off both shows with Brock effectively being responsible for both departures. Oh yeah and he's gonna murder Hogan on Smackdown

Paul Heyman told the story that at some point Vince was all "GAAAHHHDDDD DAMN IT PAUL THIS KID IS MONEY!!" (doing the impression of Vince himself of course) and I'm wondering at what point this happened and if he did that after watching Brock kill both Hardy's in back to back nights

Those first 5-6 months of Brock are something we'll likely never, ever see again.

To think the two guys in the Icon vs. Icon match at WM 18 both lose to a rookie Lesnar clean within 6 months.

 

[Megahab]

The current date of my watch through is April 22nd 2002. It's insane to think that I just watched Lesnar's first match on Raw and within 4 months Austin will refuse to put him over, Rock DOES put him over and both guys will off both shows with Brock effectively being responsible for both departures. Oh yeah and he's gonna murder Hogan on Smackdown

Paul Heyman told the story that at some point Vince was all "GAAAHHHDDDD DAMN IT PAUL THIS KID IS MONEY!!" (doing the impression of Vince himself of course) and I'm wondering at what point this happened and if he did that after watching Brock kill both Hardy's in back to back nights

I don't think it was so much that Austin refused to put Lesnar. It's that it was a match with zero build on TV. It didn't make sense regardless of who was going to win.

 

[These Are The Days]

I don't think it was so much that Austin refused to put Lesnar. It's that it was a match with zero build on TV. It didn't make sense regardless of who was going to win.

I've heard Austin say that and I don't believe one word of it. I think the logic behind it was supposed to be a win of such magnitude coming out of nowhere. Shock value. It didn't matter if there was build or not. If Brock wins under any circumstance the whole world is stunned. And if it was written for Lesnar to kill Austin just like he did every. single. person. every. single. match. it's all the more impactful. I guarantee you they wanted Lesnar winning because of Heyman and Austin surviving because it was a miracle and is left a bloody broken mess with J.R calling Lesnar a carnivore and career killing machine asking "Who the hell can stop this man?! BAH GAWD!"

I don't have any proof except for that's what happened for 4 months til he won it all and I have no reason to believe Austin was gonna be different

As for Austin, J.R has one story after the next on how impossible it was to make him happy by 2002. Austin didn't put over anyone FOR YEARS until Kurt Angle came along. As far as I'm concerned Austin was burned out, miserable and couldn't bring himself to quit due to injuries and burnout until this gave him a valid psychological reason he could live with. Saying "I'm the last guy you beat not the first. I spent 7 years getting there" in regards to that match and following it up with "there's no money and no build" in the same interview is a cop out to save face.

He was in a bad place at the time and protective of his image. It doesn't make him a bad person it just is what it is. I actually understand his reasons a lot better this way as opposed to him thinking this was some sort of act of valor to make the product better

 

[Megahab]

I've heard Austin say that and I don't believe one word of it. I think the logic behind it was supposed to be a win of such magnitude coming out of nowhere. Shock value. It didn't matter if there was build or not. If Brock wins under any circumstance the whole world is stunned. And if it was written for Lesnar to kill Austin just like he did every. single. person. every. single. match. it's all the more impactful. I guarantee you they wanted Lesnar winning because of Heyman and Austin surviving because it was a miracle and is left a bloody broken mess with J.R calling Lesnar a carnivore and career killing machine asking "Who the hell can stop this man?! BAH GAWD!"

I highly disagree. Austin vs Lesnar could have main evented Wrestlemania. This Raw match would been like 10 minutes or less wuth zero build. Would be such a waste of a good story. A shock Lesnar win shouldn't be used on Austin of all people. You had guys like Taker and Triple H on the roster if you have to absolutely do that. Plus the description you gave of how they match should go down - you could do exactly that with a build.

I don't care if a match is given away on free TV like some people here, because I don't work for the company. But a match like that given away with no story is what would bother me.

 

[These Are The Days]

I highly disagree. Austin vs Lesnar could have main evented Wrestlemania. This Raw match would been like 10 minutes or less wuth zero build. Would be such a waste of a good story. A shock Lesnar win shouldn't be used on Austin of all people. You had guys like Taker and Triple H on the roster if you have to absolutely do that. Plus the description you gave of how they match should go down - you could do exactly that with a build.

I don't care if a match is given away on free TV like some people here, because I don't work for the company. But a match like that given away with no story is what would bother me.

I'm sure Austin vs Lesnar could have main evented Mania but this was a King Of The Ring qualifying match. I think at the time they were just feeding Brock fresh victims to build him up. But I digress

 

[Megahab]

I'm sure Austin vs Lesnar could have main evented Mania but this was a King Of The Ring qualifying match. I think at the time they were just feeding Brock fresh victims to build him up. But I digress

Checking his victims on profightdb.com up to that point and they were the Hardy Boys, Shawn Stasiak and Bubba Ray Dudley.

It would be like Goldberg beating Sting in the 5th match of Goldberg's streak.

 

[CDJ]

Tim Robinson is hilarious. Classic wrestling parody

 

[These Are The Days]

Checking his victims on profightdb.com up to that point and they were the Hardy Boys, Shawn Stasiak and Bubba Ray Dudley.

It would be like Goldberg beating Sting in the 5th match of Goldberg's streak.

Yup. That sounds about right. Again I completely understand why Austin said no if he's protecting his image. But I think the idea behind no build was supposed to be shock value. It's not that Austin is not right. But I don't know how you build a guy with like 5 matches ever when the first 3/4 weeks of Lesnar's career consisted of randomly attacking people. Unless Austin is implying he should have been the last opponent Lesnar faces for KOTR don't get it. And even then, Austin is the **LAST** guy who needs a KOTR finals.

Again, I think Austin just said no to putting over a guy that new and I still get it from that point of view. To your point, it's a match that could headline a Wrestlemania but not at that point of Lesnar's career where he was still an unknown. It may not make sense for Lesnar to go over Austin with no build but not much of his career is making any sense at all so far. It's not that no one should care if he goes over on a guy like Bubba or the Hardys. It's just that to me it's no less random than if he beat any of those guys as opposed to Austin in a KOTR qualifier. And if you're going for shock value that would've been the way to do it.

Idk maybe I'm just not getting it. Wouldn't be the first time time eh?

 

[These Are The Days]

Some thoughts

Paul Heyman's Smackdown is art. I am so thoroughly entertained by Mark Henry's feats of strength, Edge's practical jokes and Kurt making a fool of himself every time he gets on screen. He gets his damn pants pulled down and now it's happened to Billy, Chuck and Rico. Do all these guys wear thongs or what?

EDDIE'S BACK AND HE'S GOT THE GOLD BAYBAY!!!

I wish I hadn't spent the last 2 months predicting a Big Show heel turn

Poor Flair... This dude reminds me of my time as a moderator on another forum. It was absolute hell. Thankfully after a year and a half my biggest pain gave reason for an unforgivable permaban that will never be lifted

Hogan and HHH sitting in a tree! K I S S I N G

Turn Booker T babyface dammit. He would kill it right now if he did

Bubba's dancing now? Ruh roh

I think I'm worn out on Test guys. He just can't get over

Already worn out on the NWO. God I'm gonna regret complaining about this later when I gotta watch another HHH reign of terror

 

[These Are The Days]

About to enter the WWE era any day now. This might be the last proper broadcast of WWF television that I'm watching on Smackdown. A few thoughts


Reverend D-Von just isn't a good gimmick. Sorry Vince

I get what they're trying to do but this thing with Flair and Austin. I really do. This was a genuinely good idea for a program. But this is burning way, WAAAAAYYYY too long. Fight or shake hands already damn it. I got 2 matches with feet on the ropes Flair didn't see while acting as an official, Big Show turning on Austin while vs NWO and now another match vs NWO but THIS TIME Flair is Austin's partner. We're going on 5 or 6 weeks of this now. I'm about ready to skip the segments and matches all together if this drags on another week.

Look guys it's Randy Orton!!

Planet Stasiak is clearly a punishment gimmick or Vince torturing the poor man because he thinks it's amusing. I haven't heard rhymes this cringeworthy since Heidenreich

Okay Golddust you win. I want to see you and Booker T team up. This is going to be the stupidest thing ever and I want it. You don't say "Not since a young McCauley Culkin was left home alone has anyone ever been so abandoned" to Booker T, make me die of laughter and then not give me more

I forgot how awesome it is hearing Tazz do his oohs and ahhs during a match. I never thought anything could top King hitting the high note with his little shrieks but Tazz is so damn good

Speaking of King... My GOD this guy's gimmick is a walking sexual harassment lawsuit. I don't know how much of it Jerry Lawler meant. But holy shit I can't believe how much they have let him get away with over the years. From whistling at women, openly soliciting sex, probably 80 politically incorrect quips and turning of phrases (but they're funny as hell) to calling Kane a Pejorative Slur (good on the censors here I hate the R word) this guy should have been cancelled harder than a comedy on Fox. I've been meaning to say this for a long time too but wow LMAO. Jerry is like a golden kind of trash you don't EVER throw away

I'm cheering hard for Big Albert to get some traction here with this heel turn. You did great as the hip hop hippo. Go kill some guys with the big angry heel gimmick

Scotty may never hit the worm again. Him going like 86 years without hitting that maneuver and giving their song "You look fly today" to Rikishi hurt the Too Cool gimmick long before Grand Master lost his place in WWF. For a brief shining moment they were drawing heat on par with Rock and Austin during their matches

 

[Grackle Party]

Just wached some random Hogan clips. Its funny how he used a lot of heel tactics as a face. Like the the biggest one for me is the eye rake/gouge and the back rake.

 

[These Are The Days]

Just wached some random Hogan clips. Its funny how he used a lot of heel tactics as a face. Like the the biggest one for me is the eye rake/gouge and the back rake.

I'm on the first proper episode of WWE Raw and Taker's motorcycle just no sold Hogan. He calls Taker out, takes the bike, calls Taker a bitch and threatens to ride the motorcycle up the ramp. Seconds later the motorcycle said "That's not gonna work for me B R Ö T H E R"

I can't stop laughing. Hogan had to come back and get it after going into the curtain and poor JR has to sell this trainwreck to everyone

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I'm on the first proper episode of WWE Raw and Taker's motorcycle just no sold Hogan. He calls Taker out, takes the bike, calls Taker a bitch and threatens to ride the motorcycle up the ramp. Seconds later the motorcycle said "That's not gonna work for me B R Ö T H E R"

I can't stop laughing. Hogan had to come back and get it after going into the curtain and poor JR has to sell this trainwreck to everyone

Sad part is that segment is poetry in motion compared to the match Hogan puts on in their Judgement Day '02 meeting. Quite literally the worst chokeslam ever taken/sold.

 

[These Are The Days]

Sad part is that segment is poetry in motion compared to the match Hogan puts on in their Judgement Day '02 meeting. Quite literally the worst chokeslam ever taken/sold.

I'll be sure to look for it. I hope Taker goes over dirtier than a diaper. God I love what WWE was doing with him at this time. He's a near perfect heel. Also Hogan ran over the bike with a semi. That's what it gets for sandbagging Hulkamania on live television BOTHER. I laughed again thinking he did it for that reason.

And now Flair just double crossed Austin. NWO stands in glory. Big Show and Flair vs Austin at judgment day. Raw is on drugs again. This is another GOTCHA moment that's not making sense.

 

[These Are The Days]

This Edge vs Angle feud is too much. I feel like I'm watching a "best of Smackdown" reel every single time I turn on the show. I can't believe how much I was missing in that first hour of the show because "Survivor" came on at the same time and I was watching that too. Holy shit

 

[JackSlater]

Just wached some random Hogan clips. Its funny how he used a lot of heel tactics as a face. Like the the biggest one for me is the eye rake/gouge and the back rake.

The way Hogan used to torture poor The Genius simply for existing at ringside. For shame.

 

[These Are The Days]

Its May 13th 2002 in my watch through. I'm going to speculate that last week's slaughter of Shawn Stasiak by Lesnar is what won Vince over because he's got a match now at Judgment Day. And more importantly, Brock's fan club has the biggest signs at the area and there's a full scale "Goldberg" chant happening. If I hadn't seen this before I don't know what I'd have made of it. It's in Toronto though and they're always white hot. I mean that in a good way.

They've probably changed the opening noise to Brock's song 4 times already and it's now his well known reverb. Last week was a jack hammer lol

 

[These Are The Days]

I've said it many many times. I'm not a huge Hall and Nash guy but my heart hurts knowing Scott Hall wasn't "fired for not getting it done" against Austin. I know his demons were getting the best of him. The love of my life is sober 3 years to the day this morning and not a day goes by where I am not thankful. She probably should have died at least once from an overdose. We're lucky. Scott on the other hand.... not so much. I have wondered about since his return. He had a verbal exchange with Rock at some point and I don't know if it was a gimmick but the guy could not string together a cohesive sentence. But I'm glad he's at peace and RIP to a legend

Cherish your family guys. Help em out and don't give up




Also Hogan vs Flair on this episode of Raw is all the memes. I laughed. Now to see who the new member of the NWO is

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Now to see who the new member of the NWO is

Yeah, I feel like that's gonna be an eye roll for you

 

[Megahab]

I've said it many many times. I'm not a huge Hall and Nash guy but my heart hurts knowing Scott Hall wasn't "fired for not getting it done" against Austin. I know his demons were getting the best of him. The love of my life is sober 3 years to the day this morning and not a day goes by where I am not thankful. She probably should have died at least once from an overdose. We're lucky. Scott on the other hand.... not so much. I have wondered about since his return. He had a verbal exchange with Rock at some point and I don't know if it was a gimmick but the guy could not string together a cohesive sentence. But I'm glad he's at peace and RIP to a legend

Cherish your family guys. Help em out and don't give up




Also Hogan vs Flair on this episode of Raw is all the memes. I laughed. Now to see who the new member of the NWO is

I think this Hogan vs Flair match is the last Raw before the change from WWF to WWE.

 

[These Are The Days]

I think this Hogan vs Flair match is the last Raw before the change from WWF to WWE.

I don't remember the last official match. It was something with Austin vs NWO I think. It's been WWE I think for about 2 weeks. JR was wearing a WWF shirt on the first night (it made me laugh considering they managed to throw together new ring aprons for Raw that night with the new company logo) and poor JR and King out have habit have said "WWF" probably 3 to 5 times over the broadcast. Both have had to correct each other with "Get the F out" and to Smackdowns credit it hasn't happened yet. Either Cole and Tazz were just more prepared or the fact it could be edited out is at play here.


The Flair vs Hogan match was hilarious. Taker hog tied Hogan and dragged him around and right now on Smackdown Jericho keeps interrupting Vince's alone time. This is amazing

Yeah, I feel like that's gonna be an eye roll for you

Lol Booker T. Golddust had him dressed like a lumberjack on that last episode of Raw. I marked out

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I don't remember the last official match. It was something with Austin vs NWO I think. It's been WWE I think for about 2 weeks. JR was wearing a WWF shirt on the first night (it made me laugh considering they managed to throw together new ring aprons for Raw that night with the new company logo) and poor JR and King out have habit have said "WWF" probably 3 to 5 times over the broadcast. Both have had to correct each other with "Get the F out" and to Smackdowns credit it hasn't happened yet. Either Cole and Tazz were just more prepared or the fact it could be edited out is at play here.


The Flair vs Hogan match was hilarious. Taker hog tied Hogan and dragged him around and right now on Smackdown Jericho keeps interrupting Vince's alone time. This is amazing



Lol Booker T. Golddust had him dressed like a lumberjack on that last episode of Raw. I marked out

Haha, whoops. I had the wrong "new member" in where you're up to. Was thinking of the June 2002 new member with that one.

 

[These Are The Days]

I completely forgot about Deacon Batista. Man OVW was just sending em ALL up right about now weren't they? You got Lesnar, Orton and Batista and Cena still to come