Classic Wrestling Discussion: Part III & Wrestler Poll

[These Are The Days]

Pausing Mania X8 to say Taker is once in a lifetime. God bless Flair but he doesn't have much in the tank. He's not totally done but he needs help. And Deadman made a match worthy of WrestleMania for him.

Bravo Taker. Bravo

 

[These Are The Days]

Almost done with Mania X8 and just finished Rock vs Hogan. God almighty I've waited 20 years for this. All I know is they wouldn't boo Hogan.

But I get it now. This goes beyond memes of 2002 and cheering the heel because it's cool. There must have been 55,000 born and bred Hulkamanaics in their late 20's and early 30's in that building who never and (I mean NEVER) thought Hogan would be back in a WWF ring again. Nevermind **IN** Toronto where arguably the biggest match of antiquity (Hogan vs Warrior) happened and booing him would have been like booing the God who made them. Not trying to dunk on Leaf fans but this is a lot like winning a Cup. Hogan at that time was as precious to wrestling as the Cup is to hockey. It's once in a lifetime and it's so cathartic that you can't help but scream. It was physically impossible to not support Hogan again. This is probably the closest thing we will ever see to someone having their deceased lover come back to life

Thank God it was against the Rock. This has to happen. I almost feel complete having seen this. Like I'd never have to watch another match again

 

[These Are The Days]

Hooollllyyyyyy shit! Yeah the Attitude Era as we know it just got ended by Linda's announcement of the brand extension. I completely understand now why people say X8 was the last official day of the era. I'll say this much: it's every bit as good as they say but holy shit some of it was unwatchable. The good ideas were probably the best I've ever seen and the bad ideas were probably the worst. Very little in between

I gotta make a best and worst of at some point.




PS I f***ing LOVE Canada. It is the beating heart of wrestling. Yes they all live in Tampa by me. Hell I saw Bray Wyatt like two weeks ago at the local Publix. But you guys are what keeps em alive. You guys are the MVP. I love you guys so much.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Watched the documentary on Hogan's turn to the NwO at Bash '96. That was incredible.

 

[BruinDust]

Maybe. Looking back it was some very fortuitous timing for WWE and Lesnar.

You had both The Rock and Austin stepping away at basically the same time creating a massive void, the WWE then had a cant miss superstar in Lesnar (and Cena just after) come up at that same time. Makes perfect sense in retrospect for them to have the changing of the guard kick off a new era.

But back then, it was a massive risk and pretty ballsy to "leave" the Attitude Era given how much money it made everyone

Hogan as well. 3 of the biggest names ever (hence their WM 30) opening, all 3 pretty much finished as full-time performers within months of each other.

 

[BruinDust]

Watched the documentary on Hogan's turn to the NwO at Bash '96. That was incredible.

Still blows my mind how close they came to it "not" being Hogan.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Still blows my mind how close they came to it "not" being Hogan.

Agreed! Bischoff said that "plan B" was turning Sting at the end of the match.

 

[EpochLink]

Shawn and Austin legit thrashed in this segment

 

[These Are The Days]

Last Smackdown before the brand split so a few thoughts

- Can the NWO please just go away? This doesn't work. Nash is Test without a Canadian accent, I think Scott Hall's demons might be getting the better of him and no one on planet earth wanted to see X-Pac again

- No one sells the clothesline from hell like Billy Gunn. My God it's pure destruction every time

- Since when did Smackdown become the favorite child?

- Can Vince please take a vacation? I have tried not to complain about seeing him every night but I'm worn out on him

- Breaking up the Dudley's makes no sense

- We're getting close. It's almost here. It's almost time for Paul Heyman to do the first of his 119 trillion screams
of BUUUHHHRRRRAAAACCCCCKKKKK HHHHHHHHHHLLLEZNUUUURRRRR!!!!

- Kurt Angle trying to be hip is legit the funniest thing WWF has done. He's so good at being bad at it

- I'm real interested how we're gonna lose the European and Hardcore titles in favor of US and Cruiserweight

- I die a little inside every time JR and Cole call Rock the future of the WWF. Guy is gonna leave in like 5 months

- lol half the Raw and Smackdown guys are all gonna leave their brand anyway. Lucky for Raw because this is bad man

 

[Megahab]

- I die a little inside every time JR and Cole call Rock the future of the WWF. Guy is gonna leave in like 5 months

IIRC, they even billed Hogan vs. Rock as sport entertainment's past vs sports entertainment's future.

 

[These Are The Days]

IIRC, they even billed Hogan vs. Rock as sport entertainment's past vs sports entertainment's future.

Oh yes they did. Multiple times. It hurts that Hogan lasted longer than Rock but in his defense he could still work a top notch match. You just needed to motivate him

 

[These Are The Days]

Oh Lord... rebranding Raw for the brand split was a very good idea (I would almost call it necessary) but no matter how many times I look at it, that parallelogram titantron on the Raw stage still looks terrible even after 20 years. I know it's supposed to share the shape of the new Raw logo and be fluid with the rest of the stage design but they really needed to stick with what worked. Rest of the stage is just fine though. The Lightning bolts are a cute touch I guess

 

[These Are The Days]

My..... GOD. I'm not quite done with the first Smackdown of the brand extension but it's already unhinged. It is relentless entertainment. Don't get me wrong Raw has talent but Taker doesn't wrestle every night, Austin is clearly winding down and Big Show and Kane are niche favorites. Other than RVD and the Hardys the best you have to look forward to is Booker's shenanigans. I don't know if we can even count Lesnar right now. He has yet to have his first match and he's just gonna go to Smackdown in like 4 months (in 2002 time) anyway

I don't know if there was some sort of directive at the time to make Smackdown the A show over Raw but after 1 week of brand extension this like the little brother just grew a foot taller and 50 lbs over his older sibling

 

[Megahab]

My..... GOD. I'm not quite done with the first Smackdown of the brand extension but it's already unhinged. It is relentless entertainment. Don't get me wrong Raw has talent but Taker doesn't wrestle every night, Austin is clearly winding down and Big Show and Kane are niche favorites. Other than RVD and the Hardys the best you have to look forward to is Booker's shenanigans. I don't know if we can even count Lesnar right now. He has yet to have his first match and he's just gonna go to Smackdown in like 4 months (in 2002 time) anyway

I don't know if there was some sort of directive at the time to make Smackdown the A show over Raw but after 1 week of brand extension this like the little brother just grew a foot taller and 50 lbs over his older sibling

I think initially, Raw was supposed to be the sports entertainment show and Smackdown was to be the wrestling show.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

My..... GOD. I'm not quite done with the first Smackdown of the brand extension but it's already unhinged. It is relentless entertainment. Don't get me wrong Raw has talent but Taker doesn't wrestle every night, Austin is clearly winding down and Big Show and Kane are niche favorites. Other than RVD and the Hardys the best you have to look forward to is Booker's shenanigans. I don't know if we can even count Lesnar right now. He has yet to have his first match and he's just gonna go to Smackdown in like 4 months (in 2002 time) anyway

I don't know if there was some sort of directive at the time to make Smackdown the A show over Raw but after 1 week of brand extension this like the little brother just grew a foot taller and 50 lbs over his older sibling

Not a directive, just a situation where Vince thought he was punishing guys and unintentionally made magic.

You're entering the era of The Smackdown 6.

Heyman was given creative control to book Smackdown and a roster featuring Eddie, Angle, Benoit, Edge, Mysterio and Chavo Guerrero.

So Heyman had 6 guys who could all wrestle circles around anyone else in the company to book with, a headliner in Angle and 4 future headliners on their way up in Eddie/Benoit/Edge/Mysterio. It was a perfect storm for great booking and great wrestling.

It also helped that Heyman had a history with Guerrero/Benoit/Mysterio from when they were in ECW before they went to WCW. He knew them, he showcased them as pure wrestlers in ECW and most importantly he believed they were stars being held back

 

[These Are The Days]

Not a directive, just a situation where Vince thought he was punishing guys and unintentionally made magic.

You're entering the era of The Smackdown 6.

Heyman was given creative control to book Smackdown and a roster featuring Eddie, Angle, Benoit, Edge, Mysterio and Chavo Guerrero.

So Heyman had 6 guys who could all wrestle circles around anyone else in the company to book with, a headliner in Angle and 4 future headliners on their way up in Eddie/Benoit/Edge/Mysterio. It was a perfect storm for great booking and great wrestling.

It also helped that Heyman had a history with Guerrero/Benoit/Mysterio from when they were in ECW before they went to WCW. He knew them, he showcased them as pure wrestlers in ECW and most importantly he believed they were stars being held back

I remember it vaguely but I remember loving it. I'm waiting for WWF to become WWE any moment here and not sure when they're going to advertise Mysterio. I remember they did it for just a few weeks and I remember watching his debut and being like "Hooollllyyyyyy shit" it was amazing what Heyman did. The episode of Smackdown I just saw had the first Cruiserweight bout and Kidman beat Tajiri in an excellent match. Edge and Angle are feuding and I don't have words for how awesome this is. Edge just did that skit where he showed Kurt old pictures and on the back it says "I suck"

Again, just relentlessly entertaining

Do you know if Heyman was writing for Smackdown right at the beginning of the brand split? On the last episode of Raw (I'm about 2 weeks into the split) Paul stood in the ring and pumped Brock Lensar up while Lesnar just sorta stood there drooling and flexing. Then the Hardy's showed up and Jeff landed the nastiest chair shot I've ever heard. Kudos to Heyman if he was working both shows like that.

 

[These Are The Days]

@BigBadBruins7708

Actually who did Vince think he was punishing here? Smackdown can literally do no wrong right now. Not unless this is the genius of Paul Heyman at play here.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

@BigBadBruins7708

Actually who did Vince think he was punishing here? Smackdown can literally do no wrong right now. Not unless this is the genius of Paul Heyman at play here.

Pretty certain Heyman was booking at the point in time you're up to. He took it over just before the brand split in 2002

Yeah, Vince thought Smackdown was the minor leagues and Raw was "the show", so he saw sending someone over to Smackdown as punishment.

But it's also what gave Heyman and the 6 room to do what they did. Vince didnt care so there was no meddling or oversight, they had freedom to do their own thing

 

[These Are The Days]

Pretty certain Heyman was booking at the point in time you're up to. He took it over just before the brand split in 2002

Yeah, Vince thought Smackdown was the minor leagues and Raw was "the show", so he saw sending someone over to Smackdown as punishment.

But it's also what gave Heyman and the 6 room to do what they did. Vince didnt care so there was no meddling or oversight, they had freedom to do their own thing

Backlash 2002 is next, almost done with the Smackdown right before it. If you care "that much" about the NWO then this is the best WWF has ever been. The vast majority of 1997 and 2001 had its moments where I didn't think it could possibly be better but there's so much genuine fun on both shows. In 3/4 weeks Spike had a match on Raw where he swiped William Regal's brass knuckles before he and the ref could notice and win the European title in like 2 seconds. I swear to God I rewatched it 6 times and just kept laughing harder. Angle is the biggest dork every time he talks. Mark Henry's feats of strength are amazing. Ric Flair losing his mind every night is gold. Stacy Keibler sexy danced on a desk and Vince turned himself into a meme. Austin pulled a great April fool's joke about signing with Vince on Smackdown.

But anyway back to the Smackdown 6. I don't know how you can possibly improve on this and Benoit and Mysterio are not even there yet. It sounds like Vince is rolling into Smackdown and is just doing what is already written. I'm getting chills. There's just so much talent and these guys are in the prime of their lives. Hell even Hogan has gas in the tank.

I think the last time I enjoyed WWF/WWE this much and looked forward to it was 19/20 years ago around the time Kurt Angle came back from his neck surgery and Brock and Show destroyed the ring

 

[BruinDust]

Backlash 2002 is next, almost done with the Smackdown right before it. If you care "that much" about the NWO then this is the best WWF has ever been. The vast majority of 1997 and 2001 had its moments where I didn't think it could possibly be better but there's so much genuine fun on both shows. In 3/4 weeks Spike had a match on Raw where he swiped William Regal's brass knuckles before he and the ref could notice and win the European title in like 2 seconds. I swear to God I rewatched it 6 times and just kept laughing harder. Angle is the biggest dork every time he talks. Mark Henry's feats of strength are amazing. Ric Flair losing his mind every night is gold. Stacy Keibler sexy danced on a desk and Vince turned himself into a meme. Austin pulled a great April fool's joke about signing with Vince on Smackdown.

But anyway back to the Smackdown 6. I don't know how you can possibly improve on this and Benoit and Mysterio are not even there yet. It sounds like Vince is rolling into Smackdown and is just doing what is already written. I'm getting chills. There's just so much talent and these guys are in the prime of their lives. Hell even Hogan has gas in the tank.

I think the last time I enjoyed WWF/WWE this much and looked forward to it was 19/20 years ago around the time Kurt Angle came back from his neck surgery and Brock and Show destroyed the ring

That stretch of time between the Raw after WM 2002 and Summerslam 2002 is the greatest collection of wrestling talent ever assembled and will likely never be topped. The list of names who appeared in WWE during that time is jaw-dropping looking back at it.

 

[Megahab]

Yeah, Vince thought Smackdown was the minor leagues and Raw was "the show", so he saw sending someone over to Smackdown as punishment.

I don't remember that it was punishment at the time. Hogan, Angle, The Rock and Jericho got drafted to Raw in the first draft. Lesnar, Benoit, Eddie, and Taker all moved to Smackdown after initially being on the Raw roster. I can't imagine any of these guys being punished for something. And Vince himself was the Smackdown GM. I can't remember who else moved to Smackdown.

 

[These Are The Days]

I don't remember that it was punishment at the time. Hogan, Angle, The Rock and Jericho got drafted to Raw in the first draft. Lesnar, Benoit, Eddie, and Taker all moved to Smackdown after initially being on the Raw roster. I can't imagine any of these guys being punished for something. And Vince himself was the Smackdown GM. I can't remember who else moved to Smackdown.

Even Big Show jumped ship too later in fall 2002 with the whole thing setting up his match with Lesnar at Survivor Series and starting the latter's run as the company's top babyface.

 

[BruinDust]

Pretty certain Heyman was booking at the point in time you're up to. He took it over just before the brand split in 2002

Yeah, Vince thought Smackdown was the minor leagues and Raw was "the show", so he saw sending someone over to Smackdown as punishment.

But it's also what gave Heyman and the 6 room to do what they did. Vince didnt care so there was no meddling or oversight, they had freedom to do their own thing

At the time, I don't think that was his viewpoint. The plan was to have Austin as the main star of Raw, Rock as the main star of SD. They went into it treating both shows and brands as equal. Just the fact they gave the younger of the two (Rock) to SD.

But as time went on, more and more focus went to making Raw the top show/brand.

 

[Unholy Diver]

Had Unforgiven 98 on in the background while working today, don't think I had seen it before as I was more of a WCW guy back then, but man did Vince take a serious chairshot to the head at the end of the Austin/Dude Love match, maybe it was shit like that that started him downhill

 

[CDJ]

Catching up on old takeovers because I haven’t seen the majority of them and it’s a shame Velveteen Dream is a crazy criminal because he’s talented. This match with Aleister Black is great